New sign-ups and low participation.

[lemonstar]

It staggers me every time I log in just how many new accounts have been created but, and this isn't a criticism at all - it's just that I have a constantly enquiring mind - why is the subsequent participation rate so low? Doesn't anyone ever wonder about why that is? Maybe message them all with a survey to find out? Maybe the site, on closer inspection after signing up turns out for some to not be what they were looking for? Or...what exactly?

 

Aren't there any site usage stats that could be published every week or month to show how active the site is - numbers of private message sent, number of new posts, replies, page impressions, bandwidth used, etc.

[john]

Hey

 

we do do some things but yes solving the initial engagement and participation conundrum is definitely important, and one we do try to tackle with new initiatives. We have a few new ones to try. We are seeing some improvement but it it is far from satisfactory. Especially considering what the staff do to try and attract potential good members and to give our existing members some real benefits.

 

it is not a Songstuff phenomenon. However some of things we do highlight the problem, One of the issues is actually that the site is free. People sign up but have little commitment to getting much out of it... but they create accounts to look-see. Many also do intend being active at some point but actually sign up for a batch of sites at a time.
 

Free forums often rely upon a small but active user base, and that disguises exactly the same issue going on. It doesn’t even need that many to hide it if those posters are quite prolific.

 

Sites with paid memberships or paid membership levels have a different experience. Even paying a dollar, people want to get their money’s worth and so put more into being active. not only that they stand to stay longer per visit and give the site more of a chance to build a broader active user base.

 

As it is we intend adding a paid tier ($2.50 per month) to help pay for the site and to help address exactly this issue. I would be happy if the site broke even, though some surplus would be good for site improvements, workshops etc. It would also be more reliable and predictable than donations and less costly to my wee pocket!

 

Other initiatives can help, starting with targeting potentially suitable members off-site, setting a realistic expectation and instilling a desire to participate. There’s a big list of ifs buts and maybes. Staff actively try and address these in chunks because there’s not quite enough of us to address all possibilities.

 

I would say that certain attitudes have changed in the time I’ve been running Songstuff. It is more about instant gratification and yes an expectation of getting things for free. yet, in talking with many forum admins who have the same experience, site with free and paid tiers and purely paid sites, it is interesting how much being free impacts participation and the type of participation too.

 

Free is of course not the only issue (as mentioned). We can do more, and we are doing more. That includes talking to members, not just new members. For example competitions are poorly attended unless you offer big prizes. That said there are participation formats that can make a difference.

 

Songstuff has different types of users, who typically look for different things. In fact that was behind part of the restructuring to make things easier for new visitors to find. So lyricists and music writers want feedback, but there is a mistaken trend for doing that on social media. For example, posting songs under construction to Twitter or Facebook. That is a big mistake. I really should write an article about it.

 

Other types of members are musicians, producers, bands... all with people at different stages. For example, bands want to increase their following and find out new ways to grow their following. Yet again, incidentally, many have taken to twitter to grow their following. Bad move. It’s a bad move for the same reason that Soundcloud and Reverbnation fans are largely useless. Most users on the platforms don’t even listen to songs. They like artists in order to get a like back. (Same happens on Twitter). The trouble is on Soundcloud all ”fans” are artists looking for fans. On Twitter, most bands are connected to bands (usually more than 90% of their list), and bands are not good fans. It’s just easy to build followers using bands... there is just no thought to how useful they are. 100 interested fans can outweigh 100,000 disinterested fans.

 

As mentioned artists post works in progress in an effort to engage, to connect. The issue is that it ruins any form of magic, it dilutes the big splash, and it makes them far less professional in experience and fans truly categorise.

 

The trouble is that on songwriting sites, a very small group can make it appear busy but they don’t do anything to address the fundamental issues. Indeed, a small clique can be hostile to new members. Indeed certain parts of Songstuff’s old clique were regularly responsible for scaring off new members. In fact even other long term members have been scared off. It was a frequent complaint, if not the only complaint, of members I contacted t9 find out why they were not active, had stopped being active or asked for accounts to be deleted. So I changed rules to cut down on bullying and a good number of our regular users moved on to another site. I know on that forum the regularly discuss poor participation with no solution.

 

On Songstuff we have a load of ideas that in some cases has meant a root and branch new approach. Fortunately a lot has been put in place. We just need to join it all together. It won’t be all that is needed but it is a great start.

 

One big thing is that when staff are promoting to specific groups it is good to have activity on site that is about topics that appeal to incoming members.

 

Talking to new members is very important. That’s why we encourage new members to post introductions and existing members to welcome them. It makes a big difference. It’s also why we ask new members to tell us what they are looking for from Songstuff. A poll would seem like a good addition.

 

I am currently writing a new pathway for paid subscribers and a similar document for new free members, also ones targeting those different member types/interests.

 

I will post up a list of subscriber benefits nearer launch. Meanwhile our focus is in enriching the benefits and experience as well as highlighting the breadth and depth of what we offer as a community.

 

Rest assured we have a stack of good ideas. More are always welcome... as are any offers to help!

 

Good questions and thanks for asking!

 

Cheers

 

John

 

PS I will see what I can do to post some stats. We do actually have some already posted, just not all in one location.