Why does my free piano sound better than my paid ones?!

[Disconnectica]

Hi folks,

 

I bought Native Instruments Komplete recently, and was looking forward to finally having some awesome pianos.  It includes 4 high quality ones, around 4 Gig or more each in size.

 

For some reason though, they mostly sound really bad to me.  The Grandeur was the only usable one, and I went about converting some old piano pieces to use this instead.  Problem is, many of the pieces sounded better before.  And I'd like to know why.  Anyone have any insights?!

 

I tried adjusting velocities, settings, reverb etc and just can't get the paid piano to sound like it has any life, so have gone back to the old free VST I had instead for some tracks.  The free one I mostly use is Piano One version 1.0.  Yep even if I try the newer versions it doesn't sound anywhere near as good!  Again, why?

 

Here are some comparisons...

 

Using free piano: (actually uses Piano One for treble and Salamander for the bass, plus a little of something else I mixed in occasionally for oomf)

 

And same piece using The Grandeur paid piano:

 

The main way I'd describe it is that the free piano just sounds much more lively, while The Grandeur just sounds kind of dead and muffled.

 

The free one has higher frequencies too, and sounds more light and airy, but I couldn't get The Grandeur to match it despite adjusting EQ and the many settings The Grandeur comes with.

 

One more example...

 

With free piano: (just Piano One this time)

 

With The Grandeur:

 

I really want to use my new paid pianos because... well, I paid for them!  The Grandeur has sympathetic resonance which I really like.  And Piano One sounds kind of tinny at times, and isn't great in the bass range, but even if the quality isn't technically as good, I just can't go past the fact that the result sounds better.

 

Would love it if anyone could shed light on this.  Most people seem to rave about The Grandeur, and even the other Komplete pianos, so I don't get it.

[john]

The free one sounds more like an upright to me. It also has more reverb with more intense early reflections, giving a more lively and vibrant sound. A big part of any piano recording, including the core samples for a sample based piano is mic position. If the free piano is based on an upright, mic position is very different and depending on how it was recorded (front of casement on or off) you get very different sounds. I would say it was recorded with it on, resulting in more natural reverb, early reflections and a crisper tone.

 

btw, loved both pieces.

[john]

Oh, try using a plate reverb on the grandeur. If you return the reverb as 100% wet to a separate channel you can also play with the EQ on the reverb. If you find this too muffled, try using a delay instead of a reverb. Ideally a stereo slap-back delay for added depth. You can also try a separate early reflections effect and then mix all 3 for loads of control. For the bigger Hall effect just a standard delay will do.

[Leon T]

The Grandeur is a VERY good sounding piano, and so is the free Salamander piano. Alexander has done a great job sampling the C5? and he has shared it for free. If you already own the Grandeur, you should totally spend more time fine tuning the sound.

[starise]

Piano like guitar is a very subjective kind of thing in terms of not only the mix it is used in but also the way the person who mixes it wants it to sound. For the longest time I struggled with it, and still do. My piano sounds were harsh and tinny to my ears. I have Komplete and all of those pianos. In the beginning I used them more than I do now. In addition I have XLN Audio Addicitve keys which I tend to work with a bit more lately. I wouldn't say it sounds any better or worse, just different. I think it is slightly easier to work with that interface for me. Have you played with "The Giant" much in Komplete? Also check out "Alicia's Keys". That one has some nice features that can give it a bunch of different personalities.

Probably my most recent favorite piano sounds are the ones in SampleTank 4. I have the SE version. There is a free version and it might have one or two of those in it. I love the soft rounded feel those pianos have in ST4. My mixes are usually better suited for soft and rounded .vs harsh and "up front" in the mix. These are about the most soft and well rounded pianos I have heard. I think they are Yamaha C7 samples.

In almost all cases I like to roll off the bottom end since it can build up in a mix. Adjusting midi velocity should have some effect in how the sounds behave.

[Disconnectica]

Hi guys!  Very sorry for taking so long to reply back to my own thread.  I really appreciate everyone's feedback and intended to reply earlier, but now a few months later I'm in a better position to reply so here I am.

 

I could never get The Grandeur sounding very good on most of my pieces, but despite liking the free Piano One it still sounded a bit cheap.  In the end I saw the Session Keys bundle on special and bought that.  Of those, Session Keys Grand S was the one that stood out.  I'm using that on most of my tracks now.  One track still works best with The Grandeur, but overall Session Keys sounds much better to me.

 

Here are the two tracks I posted originally using Session Keys (plus a few other tweaks).

 

 

 

@john the free Piano One is apparently a sampled Yamaha Grand C7, though I agree it sounds more like an upright.  Something lost in the translation to such a small VST maybe.  But maybe for these fast pieces it's good to lose something?  Too many rich harmonics on every note may be part of the problem?

 

@starise yeah I tried all the pianos in Komplete when I got it, but The Grandeur was the one that stood out.  Was really interested in The Giant, but disappointed it didn't really sound that impressive in the end.  Listen to just the first few notes of The Remaining Rag played with The Grandeur, and I don't think any amount of tweaking would fix it.  There's some sort of popping or something on the attach of each note that I just found really annoying, whereas Piano One sounded so smooth.  In some ways I still prefer those first few notes on the old free piano, but with Session Keys I think it now sounds best overall.  I've also automated some different reverb effects in and out a bit to add life, and one reverb is there throughout which makes it sound like an older wonkier piano, which works for that piece.

 

@Leon T yeah I know everyone raves about The Grandeur, and yet for some of my pieces it sounded terrible.  In the first track I embedded in the original post, that was using the free Piano One for treble, and the free Salamander, which you mentioned, in the bass.  I found Salamander wasn't good up top, and Piano One wasn't good in the bass range.  For a while I played with Piano One for treble and The Grandeur for bass, which was a bit better, but still not that great.

 

Thanks again for the advice, but for the most part, I just wasn't happy with the best piano which came with Komplete, and am happy to have found a new one that is working well.