Do you think the 'role' of a musician in society has changed?

[pratanu banerjee]

This is an awesome forum on the role of musician in society!!! Carry on!!!!

[Cody]

16 hours ago, john said:

Musicians are like everybody. They have an opinion. The trouble is, some use their  celebrity to then lecture others. For me, that is the issue. By all means express opinions via song, but it becomes something else when they are public speaking. Don’t get me wrong. If they are on a chat show and asked a direct question? A simple answer works. But there is a huge difference between expression opinion within an art piece of any kind, and ramming it down your throat from a lectern. One demands skill and nuance. The other only needs a soapbox.

 

There I think is the root of the problem. The difference between being known as an artist, and relying upon celebrity as an excuse for whatever behaviour.

 

Artists can of course support campaigns etc, but the minute they err into being an active advocate is where the problems start. If they want to highlight issues, do it artistically through their music.

 

 

I agree with this completely, but I can also see the other side of it as well......... The importance of using a platform, nobody listens unless you are "somebody" which is just a societal problem, also the problem of celebrity worship as a whole thinking because someone is rich or famous or infamous their opinion for some reason carries more weight.  

[Cody]

11 hours ago, fasstrack said:

But I was also positing that there are writers out there (hoping there aren't, but positing) who really are a bit twisted and play with listeners either for self-amusement

 If I ever find that ever elusive "brown note" believe me,  I will weaponize it, even though I've made fingers crossed promises not to 

 

11 hours ago, fasstrack said:

I dislike the Stones as people, b/c they took a  lyric from a guy I co-wrote with, had a mega-hit with it---Time is on My Side---and screwed him, gave him not a dime. And it was his ass, too, not copyrighting his lyric). I'm saying that some of the big names aren't candidates for sainthood---LOL---and it might take only a small leap of faith to see scenarios such as I suggest. Fame and power do weird things to people. Not all, of course, but I've seen it happen in many forms, so why not propose that some 'play' their fans even in their lyrics?

 

I've seen my share, and been on the receiving end of that stick whether purposefully or not........being optimistic I'd hope in my case it was accidental, but deep down I know better  

 

Thing that strikes me oddest about that is the worst offenders are usually pretty prolific songwriters on their own account(or was it?) hahah.  Fame and power can do strange things indeed.  Probably just a last ditch effort to stay relevant is my best guess.  

 

 

I'm a big Randy Neuman fan....... and that Redneck song got loved for all the wrong reasons around here, some took it quite literally and thought it was a badge of honor, I've heard him discuss his repulsion about that happening. 

Edited September 24, 2020 by Cody

[Cody]

9 hours ago, fasstrack said:

it sounds great! Cojunes meets genius---and they get along famously...

It does, and it actually makes it stand out, not in an abrasive way either.........when you've heard enough music you just expect things....I'm always pleased when those expectations aren't met.  

[john]

6 minutes ago, VoiceEx said:

 

My approach to replying on this subject is a little different. If I was a celebrity, and had I been asked to make public statements about my agenda, beliefs, or if I would consider to promote something, I would look them dead in the eye and tell them: "Please do not attach your perception of society and moral conduct, into my product. You want money and you want ratings. So please do not attempt to attach some legal accountability to my work. That IS the bottom line. Keep things professional. Otherwise, id have to start charging you for my opinion".

 

I think that when a person is listening to my music, the only thing they should concern themselves with is.. if they enjoy it or not.

 

Enjoy, yes, absolutely, but also "connect and react to". Most of the music I listen to over and over is music that really means something to me. It does something to me. It's uplifting or soothes my soul etc. Some does make me think. The first time I heard "Times they are a changin'" and other songs for example I definitely thought about their meaning and my own thoughts on that subject, and yes there was an emotional connection. For those songs I didn't feel lectured to. It was more like listening to someone else talking about how they felt. Yet again I go back to if the message is in the song, it is a very different experience.

[Cody]

4 hours ago, VoiceEx said:

"Please do not attach your perception of society and moral conduct, into my product. You want money and you want ratings. So please do not attempt to attach some legal accountability to my work. That IS the bottom line. Keep things professional. Otherwise, id have to start charging you for my opinion".

 

Isn't that what you're doing when you release a song and ask for money though? charging for your opinion of how you thought those noises should go together?  I mean just my OPINION on how to look at things  

 

 

[Cody]

On 9/24/2020 at 11:28 AM, Patchez said:

-- Well a bit of a Rabbit hole, but if you read all that, that far, what's wrong with you!   and, you'd likely if know me, get who what where and why... or not. Then, skip-it! 

 

Yeah I was actually glad when you gave that referral, about going to the source...... he is a nice fella and was just trying to do the right thing, but yeah he was overthinking it as he even said he might be hahaha.

[Cody]

2 minutes ago, VoiceEx said:

I was more talking about not wanting to push some kind of agenda in my own songs, and how various corporations and the mass media would have a financial interest in putting a celebrity artist on the spot, due to their status. This relates to the thread itself.

 

Yup, and I think if the "role" has changed in society, it's due to an overabundance of this very problem. 

[Cody]

2 hours ago, VoiceEx said:

I don`t know about you, but I wouldn't want that kind of attention. Honestly I could be happy with just... thanking people for liking my songs, and taking their money xD an unpopular approach, granted, as many artists are overly posh, and concerned about their public image, and will not admit to the bottom line that's on everyone's mind, to a degree. But I have no problem with this. false pretense isn't my thing. And if I had any actual fans, that's the one thing id hope they understand about me. That I create music for myself because I love doing it. But at the same time, I got bills to pay. I don`t like dancing around pleasantries, id rather tell the truth.

Yeah, and nicely put! I hope maybe eventually we can get back to a society where its okay if everyone doesn't know everything about everyone, or even care to.  MySpace/FB and especially Twitter catching on blew my mind that people actually pretended to care what you ate for dinner that day, hahah.   I was raised in a very very small town if you can even call it that...... it had its pros and cons, but has made me always cherish any privacy or anonymity, even if it's just a delusion of it.  

 

and yeah, I'm always more willing to open my wallet for someone being honest, I don't think I've ever not been persuaded out of at least a dollar if I had one for a well placed SCREW FOOD, I NEED BOOZE, and am not willing to work for it.   sign being flown 

[Cody]

I asked my doggie this question  he agrees!

 

 

[Mahesh]

12 hours ago, VoiceEx said:

an unpopular approach, granted, as many artists are overly posh, and concerned about their public image, and will not admit to the bottom line that's on everyone's mind, to a degree. But I have no problem with this. false pretense isn't my thing.

 

I completely understand that point of view. I have friends who are incredible songwriters but choose to only use their skills for corporate shows and cover gigs as there's relatively better money there. 

 

But do you mean to imply the opposite of that is false pretense and it couldn't be anything else? Cuz I'm not so sure about that. 

 

If money and fame was the only thing and the central goal I was striving for, I'd have quit a long time ago cuz the money's absolute crap and as for popularity - well, it's indie. That should say enough. lmao As an industry itself, we've ways to go, at least, speaking from the pov of the scene and its progress here. (I'll come back to this from the really important point FastTrack made in his prev post) 

 

Everyone does what they do at the end of the day to pay their bills and survive and maybe make more than what they could hope for. In that sense, it's always the bottom line. Doesn't mean that's the only thing their profession's impact is limited to. Especially when something like music quite inherently (and to an extent according to science , mysteriously) chooses to be extremely relevant in human nature thru evolution. So understandably, by nature, a lot of interpretations, opinions, judgements, truths and untruth come out of it when we put it out. (whether we like it or not) 

 

Having said that, I personally find that there is something else that keeps me interested in expressing, performing and sharing music. A much different bottom line. I've always said that songwriting has been a ritual practice of journaling my life. Nothing else. It's allowed me to understand myself better and to explore any diversity in my own mind. 

 

But in my journey of sharing these songs over the decade, I've found that sometimes, the art beyond artist finds ways to connect with people in powerfully human ways. Some of my songs have been used at a funeral or two and that goes for the first dances. And I find beyond me, my goals, my reasoning for writing a song - these powerful moments in a story that started when I was born and goes poof when I'm gone. Not in the story I've built for why I write music, what I'll do with it and so on. And so I guess despite not having the returns I expected, witnessing certain things like this ignores my desires, sure, but makes me feel grounded. 

 

This also makes me extremely curious about why and how music works. Hence my motivation to teach and practice, everyday. (yup, and that's my other piece of bread and butter) 

 

People will find ways to make money out of you whatever you do, wherever you go. There will always be people who find ways to take anything, skew it, and squeeze as much as their greed can hope. Though I agree, that personal preference in ways to deal with this is paramount and trumps all, it surely doesn't have to limit the relevance of music, musician or even the word "celebrity" and its relevance or purpose. I believe that's open to interpretation for all the generations of humans to come, including us, now. 

 

[Mahesh]

4 hours ago, VoiceEx said:

 

Oh ok. Well I did not imply anything, as it was not left as a harsh note. Anything else, can be anything else. Absolutely. What I meant was, that I noticed that there are artists who attempt to distance themselves from seeming concerned about money, as it could affect their public image and damage their artistic integrity. Which it can. Not everyone acts that way, but some do. That`s what I was referring to, and that`s the part I will address.

 

Oh no, my usage of the word "imply" was not to mean and find out anything more than what you meant to convey. and no I didn't think that as a harsh note either. Was just curious where you're coming from. Maybe I should have used "convey" or express. Apologies! 

 

I share your sentiment of those who don't seem concerned about money over artistic integrity. Especially when they choose to still pursue music professionally and hope that one day, the honest music will speak for itself and all that. There's definitely more to it as Fasstrack mentioned, we need to be a whole lot smarter with the handling of it. 

[Cody]

9 hours ago, Mahesh said:

People will find ways to make money out of you whatever you do, wherever you go. There will always be people who find ways to take anything, skew it, and squeeze as much as their greed can hope. Though I agree, that personal preference in ways to deal with this is paramount and trumps all, it surely doesn't have to limit the relevance of music, musician or even the word "celebrity" and its relevance or purpose. I believe that's open to interpretation for all the generations of humans to come, including us, now. 

 

true!! You sure you aren't old/gray and crotchety? hahah people give "millennials" such a bad rap, but such is the way with every generation about "these damn kids today" haha, and I hate that term, I was born two decades before the millennium, I was an adult before internet was in all but the most tech savvy peoples homes,  and legal voting/drinking/military age before I had a cellphone,  and still try to get lumped in that nonsense hahah, but I digress and not relevant  

 

49 minutes ago, VoiceEx said:

I simply think there's nothing wrong with talking about money. Its not a sin and I think its a little funny how there are many artists that walk on egg shells over this subject, purely because of some culturally enforced, negative association. Its a stereotype. Those friends of yours you mentioned. They make an honest living off of their talent. They provide for themselves and their families. From a factual point of view, its not different from being a carpenter or a programmer. Its like any other job. Yet, because music is associated with certain cultural elements, some artists unfortunately go into full artsy-fartsy mode by the mere mention of money. They start pulling half baked philosophies and cliches outta their ares, all in the hopes of coming off a certain way, attempting to distance themselves from that subject. And I think that`s ridicules. I find that phenomena as being unsightly, and distasteful.

 

Yeah it's easy to dismiss money as something evil and not a factor when you've got it, and I know what you mean about all the cliches and artsy fartsy crap........those people have never had to literally play/sing/dance for their next meal I can almost guarantee it, those that have usually have no shame in asking for their services  My personal favorite tune is an always improvised little ditty about I just need $5 for a taco or whatever   

 

I think that fake persona, which is true in most musicians cases.......I'd do this for no money/recognition anyway, has been so watered down by it becoming just the expected answer and thing to say that nobody believes it anymore when they hear it, and if someone is willing to lie about that........leads to why nobody listens when a musician or artist has anything to say on any other subject.  So yeah, reading/thinking about this for a few days now, I think the role of musicians in society has changed.  I don't know if there ever will be another "Times they are Changin" tune that gets any kind of national recognition, when things just as poignant and timeless are being written everyday, every hour, somewhere, but nobody cares.