Spotify and Neil Young

[john]

What do you think about Neil Young removing his music from Spotify? Now Joni Mitchell too? A move supported by Peter Frampton? Is Spotify gambling that young people don’t know or resonate with these artists?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/jan/27/neil-young-spotify-joe-rogan-covid-misinformation

 

Of course, Apple couldn’t resist jumping on the bandwagon…

 

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/apple-music-trolls-spotify-neil-young-joe-rogan-1291697/

 

Stance aside, it’s been a long time since musicians really tried to shape the world, or to take a stand against a streaming company. I’d be really interested to get views about artists doing this.

[Peggy]

Neil, Joni and anyone else, if they don't want their  music on Spotify or any platform,  for whatever reason, I support them and I'm fine with them taking a personal stand.  But to want to shut down others based on their opinions is acting like a big baby, or "bullying" or anti-freedom.  Control and censuring and forceful positioning is not good in the long run. 

 

Neil's opinions are his opinions just as  Eric Clapton's opinions are Eric's.   

 

I have never listened to Rogan...

I am not sure why he should be deplatformed for misinformation if the NIH, CDC, Dr. Fauci, medical communities, the WHO, political leaders at all levels of governments, news media across the board are also not deplatformed, fired, or censured for the minute by minute daily misinformation they have been giving out since this virus got unleashed on the world.  Instead of using bribery, lies, threats and censorship I believe an open discussion and conversation would have been a much better option. 

 

The entertainment Industries whether in music, comedy, movies, sports, advertising, etc have never stopped trying to shape the world.  Problem is many of them think it's their privilege to the exclusion of others with competing ideas.  

[Clay Anderson Johnson]

I understand their point in not wanting to be associated with a platform which broadcasts Joe Rogan. Disinformation is one of the United States's biggest problems going far beyond the virus issue.

 

Do I believe it will have any impact upon Spotify's audience numbers or their policies? That would be a hard NO. Spotify does not care what artists think or if they participate. Young and Mitchell have to know this.

 

This strikes me more as virtue signaling than anything else. They have to know it will make no difference to anyone except themselves. These artists certainly are not stupid people.

Edited January 29, 2022 by Clay Anderson Johnson

[john]

Yeah Spotify laid it’s colours out ages ago when they were adding artists. I don’t see them caring until the number of artists starts having an effect on their subscription base. Value wiped off of share value is only important if it is long term and it influences investors. When those investors already agree with your overall strategy? It’s got a long way to fall before Spotify gives a toss.

 

As for virtue signalling? Maybe. It’s hard to tell, and depends how cynical I feel at that point. Celebrities do sometimes care about the issues they telegraph. Not everything is cause based marketing. The same cannot be said about their teams though!

[Clay Anderson Johnson]

2 hours ago, Popthree said:

Neil Young rules.

Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere with Cinnamon Girl, the title song, Cowgirl In The Sand, and Down By The River is one of my favorite albums of all time. I know the two brothers of Bruce Berry, the roadie whose overdose was the subject of Tonight's The Night, Billy and Jan of Jan and Dean.

Edited January 30, 2022 by Clay Anderson Johnson

[Mahesh]

I do believe that an open discussion helps. Especially with agreeing what the science is and what the science is not with these things. Leaving all the conspiracies on both sides aside, until people cannot come to the common ground for truth as truth is defined, there will be such friction. As it is a global health related situation, the voices of the scientific minds who positively affect it(which both sides want ) should not be lost.   Honestly, I feel bad for the science community AS A WHOLE for them not being able to come together in amplifying their view and their voice being hijacked for whatsoever reason. Regardless of stance, it does ultimately come down to the smartest minds on the planet in these fields doing what they need to do to save lives whether its a pandemic or anything else that has threatened our lives in centuries of humanity.

 

As for Joe, I'm glad Spotify didn't take the podcast down. That doesn't serve the purpose and aggravates the situation away from the opportunity of discussion. But I'm SOOOO glad Neil and Joni and the rest raised their voices anyways. That surely did help the purpose.   God bless 'em.  I'm finally glad Joe decided to address it by saying that he will bring in a more balanced conversation in his show to allow people to see both sides even if its controversial. I appreciate that. He's cool! 

 

 

 

 

 

[Clay Anderson Johnson]

Spotify issued a statement saying they are considering a potential possible warning label for Covid issues.

 

Neil and Joni got media coverage at a level that money could not buy.

 

As William Shakespeare writing with Thomas Middleton noted All's Well That Ends Well.

Edited January 31, 2022 by Clay Anderson Johnson

[Mahesh]

4 minutes ago, Popthree said:

Rogan is not cool in my book. He gives his platform to the likes of Alex Jones (a complete whack job). He's a cancer to society.

 

I can understand that. I know sometimes it can be very difficult to agree with some of the kind of guests he brings on. But people like Alex (of whom I share similar sentiments) included are highly influential people already, whether someone likes it or not. And in such situations, dialogue can serve as the more useful option than no dialogue at all.   

[Mahesh]

10 hours ago, Popthree said:

There is no merit in casting doubt on certain subjects.... Like the moon landing or if the earth is round. Sorry, Rogan is in it for one thing, and her doesn't care what lies he props up to get it 

 

COMPLETELY AGREED. Fair enough.

[Steve Mueske]

Okay, here's the thing. I'm a bit cynical, so there's that. First, I despise Joe Rogan, Alex Jones, Carlson Tucker, and the like, but we're never going to be rid of them. We're living in a time when people would rather believe in what feels right to them because it's more difficult to think about the quality of their sources. On a surface level, I admire what Neil Young has done, but he's made similar moves before, and I'm really starting to dislike these attention seeking forays. The problem is so much deeper, and I don't have an answer. Media companies want to make money. That's it. If Noam Chomsky had Joe Rogan's draw, they'd be all over him. Until we can teach people how to think critically, to trust science, and seek accurate knowledge, we're not solving anything. Alex Jones's and Carlson Tucker's defense in court has been, essentially, "I'm playing a character, no one believes what I say is true." But they do, they absolutely do. 

[Steve Mueske]

I meant specifically pulling music. He's done that before and then "quietly" reinstated it. I'm not saying it's a bad thing in this case. I'm saying that ultimately it does nothing to address the problem. Unless he has an in-depth review of all platforms that aggregate music, is joined by others to raise awareness, and there is some sort of punitive response for disinformation system-wide, it's just a news byte. I sincerely admire a principled stance. I do. But, I don't think, ultimately, it matters. Business is business. It will always be this way. I subscribe to Tidal, which I feel is a much better platform. Spotify is just the most visible. What we need, I believe, is oversight from the FCC, like any other form of public communication.

[Clay Anderson Johnson]

"The unsurprising thing about Young’s move on Rogan is that it will probably lift the fortunes of both men. Young has a new album out that the dispute will promote. Also, according to Billboard, Young will lose about $754,000 a year from sacrificing his Spotify streams but Apple has capitalized on the furor by placing a “Neil Lives Here” opening page on its app, so he’ll probably make up a good part of the difference there. Meanwhile, Sirius XM has announced the return of Young’s station on its dial. The publicity can’t help but drive new listeners to Rogan, too, and encourage casual listeners to return and hear what the man has to say for himself." Politico January 31, 2022

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/01/31/dangerous-appeal-neil-young-censorship-00003923

Edited February 1, 2022 by Clay Anderson Johnson

[GregB]

Joni Mitchell has always been my No.1. artist and has for 60 years espoused both in person and in song many insightful reflections about the human condition.

 

But withdrawing your music because of ONE person o nthe same platform?  Despite my deep adoration of the woman, this strikes me as being shallow and petulant.  How many podcasters, songwriters and musicians are there on Spotify?

 

Couldn't she instead consider that her presence (and that of the many other singer songwriters and enlightened podcasters) might have a counterbalancing effect, and that removing that presence would leave the platform more heavily skewed towards the nutbag element?

I expect that Spotify must have in excess of one million 'creators' on the platform.  I'm sure a significant number have views more extreme than Joe Rogan, yet this seems to be the first time that people have withdrawn their work due to the views expressed by ONE other creator.  And of the Groups/Band on Spotify - how many would have ONE member who's has extreme views?

 

Another element that doesn't get discussed is how do Joe Rogan's 1000+ episodes paint his character, personality and belief system. I'm a keen podcast listener and I've tried his stuff a couple of times, but his voice and presentation style just don't gel with me.  But his content varies hugely in scope, and he often speaks to experts in their fields ... and Rogan hasn't struck me as a conspiracy nutbag.  I've watched a clip where he effectively says: 'if you're young, eat well and exercise, and you ask ME 'should I get the vaccine', I'd say no.'

Like all such commentary, especially the very persuasively intimate podcast friend 'talking in your ear', the failure is that of context. He didn't say, 'this is my PERSONAL opinion and 9x% of medicos believe you SHOULD get vaccinated'.   It's the same as with a climate change "debate", if you have one person for, and one against, the PERCEPTION is that there is a knife-edge 50/50 balance of thought. 

 

Ah well. Humans!!  ** SIGH **

 

Greg

[Peggy]

I really really like Neil and Joni's music.  Have most of Neil's albums and know most of his lyrics.

Same with Joni, almost.  So much...it was super cool that on a Songstuff lyric critique I received,  there was a comment comparing my lyric to something Joni would write.  Haha..

But.... I would much rather hope they did this to get some current publicity, even a little vitrue signaling than to believe they thought censoring was a good thing.  Societies throughout time discovered, most often too late, that control by a few is a scary thing.  It's crazy and I wish people would look deeper at what they are asking friends,  family, regulators, elected officials, and companies to do just to keep people from talking about things openly, respectfully or raucous in the appropriate environment.

[Peggy]

5 minutes ago, Popthree said:

Censoring? That's not what this is about. Sorry.

Ok, whatever

[Peggy]

6 minutes ago, Popthree said:

Spotify pays fractional cents for artist streams. They collect millions, maybe billions, in revenue. They pay Rogan many millions.... With money they collected from Joni and Neil's streams. 

 

Joni and Neil and others, walked due to toxicity.

No problem there with their personal choice to leave.  It was the him or me that was hard to take.

[Peggy]

Haven't listened to Rogan, even once. May be an *sshole maybe not.  I haven't  "followed" much of Neil or Joni except for their music, may be *ssholes maybe not. Just  not big on shutting speech or conversation down.  But It's a thing going on for the last few years. Just sorry that so many go along with it and artists jumping in or in the lead.  That's not freedom .. it's control.  

[GregB]

I feel this is similar to the over-reach seen in the wholesale removal of statues of people associated with the slave trade. Slavery is a fact. Wouldn't it be more constructive and educational to instead install new plaques on such monuments explaining the contextual but proven place of such people in history and the story of the journey and emancipation of the affected races.

Similarly, it wouldn't take much for the Spotify platform to place a contextual explanation over 'contested' podcasts that summarises (with links) the prevailing view.

Information is better than the emotional echo chamber.

 

Greg

[Clay Anderson Johnson]

I still think everyone on both sides came out ahead because of this little trifle.

 

Media publicity was passed out like candy all around and everyone came up smelling like roses to their perspective audiences.

 

People learned of both musicians and podcasters they might have never heard of before.

 

You might say "Who hasn't heard of Neil Young and Joni Mitchell?"  Well a lot of people under the age of 20 probably haven't or were at least unfamiliar with their work which they might check out now.

 

A lot of people who never gave Joe Rogan a listen may now tune in to find out what all the fuss is about.

 

I love Neil Young.  I have never heard Joe Rogan and probably never will. 

 

Obla dee obla da life goes on.

 

 

[Jim622]

No matter what you think of either party, calling to silence someone is censorship. NY is an artist, no artist should call for censoring. So I'm glad that Spotify didn't blink to Neil. I have loved a lot of his music over the years, but in  most other aspect, imo he is an a..hole. The ultimatum was an elitist move. He has not been relevant on the political stage since 'Ohio'. Now he is just a rich man trying to bend people to his will.  He heard something he didn't like and figured he had the clout to make it go away. It's the typical view of the liberal, all people have rights and freedoms, unless you don't agree with them. Then they want them silenced or erased. Neither party in this speaks for me. I can make my own decisions and I don't want the people who don't have my views silenced. i decide what I listen too. There is way to much misinformation on both sides of this coin.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Jim622