Songwriting ... "Beyond the Industry-Accepted 'Tropes.'"

[VoiceEx]

This is a great topic!

 

Well, without going too deep, my approach to songwriting is through storytelling. And I mean that in the most literal sense since all my songs are based around an original fictional story I wrote. So, on the topic of 'tropes', I think that a good way to begin stepping outside that box, is by exploring all manners of Audio/Visual presentations, as well as experimenting with dialog/scripts/lyrics, and systematically work-shopping a foundation to support whichever 'stage' or 'theme' fits your own narrative effectively.

 

TLDR,

Engineer your own world, make your own tropes.

[Jac]

On 1/31/2023 at 4:39 AM, VoiceEx said:

This is a great topic!

 

Well, without going too deep, my approach to songwriting is through storytelling. And I mean that in the most literal sense since all my songs are based around an original fictional story I wrote. So, on the topic of 'tropes', I think that a good way to begin stepping outside that box, is by exploring all manners of Audio/Visual presentations, as well as experimenting with dialog/scripts/lyrics, and systematically work-shopping a foundation to support whichever 'stage' or 'theme' fits your own narrative effectively.

 

TLDR,

Engineer your own world, make your own tropes.

its is a great topic.

quote; engineer your own world, make your own tropes...l like that idea.

[VoiceEx]

3 hours ago, Jac said:

its is a great topic.

quote; engineer your own world, make your own tropes...l like that idea.

 

Just to clarify, that statement wasn't meant to be taken at its most literal sense. The concept of 'tropes' is a very broad definition and the practice of pushing a narrative through universal appeal has been 'drilled' into people for centuries, if not more so. There is a science behind it, and I'd even go as far as saying, that its practically impossible to avoid using some kind of trope, since not using any puts you at risk of completely alienating your audience.

 

That being said, what I meant was, if someone wants to avoid using particular music industry tropes, than it all comes down to experimentation and finding out what works for you. And while its true that stepping away from all things 'traditional' might result in your work being limited to a niche audience, that's not necessarily a bad thing. In fact, I often argue that sometimes having a smaller, more consistent and mature audience, is more creatively satisfying than having a younger, and more fickle and influential audience. A "Number's v.s substance" sort of thing.

Edited February 1, 2023 by VoiceEx

[Glammerocity]

On 1/31/2023 at 4:39 AM, VoiceEx said:

This is a great topic!

 

Well, without going too deep, my approach to songwriting is through storytelling. And I mean that in the most literal sense since all my songs are based around an original fictional story I wrote. So, on the topic of 'tropes', I think that a good way to begin stepping outside that box, is by exploring all manners of Audio/Visual presentations, as well as experimenting with dialog/scripts/lyrics, and systematically work-shopping a foundation to support whichever 'stage' or 'theme' fits your own narrative effectively.

 

TLDR,

Engineer your own world, make your own tropes.

 

A fine idea. Remember when ballads were stories, not slow love songs? Sometimes they were even called "The Ballad of..."

[VoiceEx]

14 hours ago, Glammerocity said:

 

A fine idea. Remember when ballads were stories, not slow love songs? Sometimes they were even called "The Ballad of..."

 

Indeed. I also remember a time when song where made to last the test of time. A lot has changed, and seems to continue to change towards that direction. Not to mention, in terms of using tropes, imagine what it will be like a few years from now, when A.I content becomes more established in the music scene. Then we will begin to see even more changes, some of which might possibly become permanent changes. Hybrid content is coming, and I think that artists should be ready for it.

 

Though I think that there is a light at the end of this tunnel. Progress is not the "enemy of art", it is the enemy of those who are not prepared for it, and those who refuse to adapt alongside it.

 

Speaking as a story writer and illustration artist at my core, I tend to believe that a good way to begin tackling these coming changes, as well as tackling the issue of over-using tropes, is to strategically re-evaluate some of the core principles of songwriting, alongside extending the storytelling aspects of music into more visual mediums, as well as tapping into the growing demand for hands-on interactive content. As technology continues to become more and more accessible, I think that this kind of approach will become easier.

 

To put that in perspective, the concept of storytelling through music allows for both the music and visual elements to present a fully fleshed out story. Which in turn provides a natural blueprint that opens the door to a wealth of possibilities, while at the same time, offering much more creative control. It can also aid in reaching a broader audience, while also extending the album's longevity as a product.

 

Just to give one small example to what I'm talking about. Since my music follows an actual story, one which I have also turned into a series of comic books, this means that, as a musician, every song I make follows an established narrative. A narrative which paces in a controlled environment, and in accordance to what fits the story. i.e the audience takes a part in the experience, but the control is always yours (tropes included).

 

In other words:

A good song can be good on its own. However, it becomes even more dynamic, and more can be done with it, when you start thinking of songs as 'extensions' to a bigger picture. This is one of the many benefits that comes from storytelling. Even single songs can become crossing points or plot devices on their own, while at the same time, having different corresponding songs that connect to them, functionally utilizing a wide array of storytelling techniques. They can even reach the point of effectively serving as a story reference points that will still be relevant several albums down the line.

 

The sky is the limit, its all a matter of approach.

 

Now, whether or not the audience responds favorably depends on many factors. However, by following a story, you are able to consistently expand on it and experiment with it, and have complete control over what you wish to include (music wise included). Not to mention, doing this also allows you to consistently pump out story based content and variety content, potentially for years. Both the story and your music have the potential to expand organically. You'd also never really run out of idea's for music videos. Unconventional storytelling is one of the reasons why I take notes from Asian culture, being as they actively push some of these envelopes.

Edited February 7, 2023 by VoiceEx

[Jac]

9 hours ago, VoiceEx said:

 

Indeed. I also remember a time when song where made to last the test of time. A lot has changed, and seems to continue to change towards that direction. Not to mention, in terms of using tropes, imagine what it will be like a few years from now, when A.I content becomes more established in the music scene. Then we will begin to see even more changes, some of which might possibly become permanent changes. Hybrid content is coming, and I think that artists should be ready for it.

 

Though I think that there is a light at the end of this tunnel. Progress is not the "enemy of art", it is the enemy of those who are not prepared for it, and those who refuse to adapt alongside it.

 

Speaking as a story writer and illustration artist at my core, I tend to believe that a good way to begin tackling these coming changes, as well as tackling the issue of over-using tropes, is to strategically re-evaluate some of the core principles of songwriting, alongside extending the storytelling aspects of music into more visual mediums, as well as tapping into the growing demand for hands-on interactive content. As technology continues to become more and more accessible, I think that this kind of approach will become easier.

 

To put that in perspective, the concept of storytelling through music allows for both the music and visual elements to present a fully fleshed out story. Which in turn provides a natural blueprint that opens the door to a wealth of possibilities, while at the same time, offering much more creative control. It can also aid in reaching a broader audience, while also extending the album's longevity as a product.

 

Just to give one small example to what I'm talking about. Since my music follows an actual story, one which I have also turned into a series of comic books, this means that, as a musician, every song I make follows an established narrative. A narrative which paces in a controlled environment, and in accordance to what fits the story. i.e the audience takes a part in the experience, but the control is always yours (tropes included).

 

In other words:

A good song can be good on its own. However, it becomes even more dynamic, and more can be done with it, when you start thinking of songs as 'extensions' to a bigger picture. This is one of the many benefits that comes from storytelling. Even single songs can become crossing points or plot devices on their own, while at the same time, having different corresponding songs that connect to them, functionally utilizing a wide array of storytelling techniques. They can even reach the point of effectively serving as a story reference points that will still be relevant several albums down the line.

 

The sky is the limit, its all a matter of approach.

 

Now, whether or not the audience responds favorably depends on many factors. However, by following a story, you are able to consistently expand on it and experiment with it, and have complete control over what you wish to include (music wise included). Not to mention, doing this also allows you to consistently pump out story based content and variety content, potentially for years. Both the story and your music have the potential to expand organically. You'd also never really run out of idea's for music videos. Unconventional storytelling is one of the reasons why I take notes from Asian culture, being as they actively push some of these envelopes.

l cant but always come back to how much the creative side of music is changing.

All because of A1 now being used widely.in everything including the creativity of music.  Will it be used in storytelling ?  who knows,  they will try to get A! to do that. l fear for how rapidly it is taking place. l know it cant be stopped but it's developing too fast. Many say can will befit us, perhaps they are right. Its been noted that it will benefit the economy by 2030 to the estimate of $15.trillion. A1 is now going on to be A12 and A!3..its as if some want it to go on to see how perfect it can get. Not a good idea in my opinion. A1 in music is what worries me. It has been one of mans greatest achivements to use his human emotions put into music. Now they are trying to get A! to replace it. Some say it will or cant ever happen but It's now being used in the music Industry. Some say that's a good thing. My grandson loves the prospect of A1  progressing in the  Arts, he thinks its a good thing. But l dont agree. 

Edit.

l think what im trying to say is 'where will it go' l know they use Al in all the Arts now, ie  Choreography , Literature ect,. Writers are using Al to collaborate machine with humans to create novels and same with Art. It has caused rift with who has owner rights, same in the music. but its now becoming as we wont know what is real any more. The Al they say will become and Art form in its self. 

l remember a scene from very old cult moving called' The Time Machine' from 1978.  the scene was where the character was taken into a cave and found all the past's history written in books and  was decayed into dust,  as the 'future' had disc of glass and nothing on them recorded of that past.

The result was the fantasy 'future generation' was completely  devoid of human emotion. almost like the machines they created.

Far fetched, yes maybe. But who knows the road man is taking, is not really for our benefit, but in fact could be for our detriment.

Worth thinking about ?

Edited February 7, 2023 by Jac

[Glammerocity]

On 2/7/2023 at 4:38 AM, VoiceEx said:

Though I think that there is a light at the end of this tunnel. Progress is not the "enemy of art", it is the enemy of those who are not prepared for it, and those who refuse to adapt alongside it.

 

The great Tin Pan Alley songwriters - Cole Porter, Hoagy Carmichael, Irving Berlin, etc. - might've been horrified at the thought of popular songs becoming so simple since the 1950s that they consisted of three chords, written by teens and twenty-somethings, who didn't know what a diminished chord or a coda was. Mozart might've chuckled at the base naivity of it all. But they'd have loved multitrack recording.

 

On 2/7/2023 at 4:38 AM, VoiceEx said:

Not to mention, doing this also allows you to consistently pump out story based content and variety content, potentially for years. Both the story and your music have the potential to expand organically. You'd also never really run out of idea's for music videos. Unconventional storytelling is one of the reasons why I take notes from Asian culture, being as they actively push some of these envelopes.

 

One of the things I like about kpop is the almost universal use of concepts and lore. Dreamcatcher had a trilogy of albums unified by a nghtmare concept, which is akin to Yes's Topographic Oceans triple album. It does allow for a lot of creativity in the videos and fans love to analyse them, finding things that might've been missed on first viewing, which expand on the concept and the band's lore.

[VoiceEx]

On 2/16/2023 at 3:58 PM, Glammerocity said:

The great Tin Pan Alley songwriters - Cole Porter, Hoagy Carmichael, Irving Berlin, etc. - might've been horrified at the thought of popular songs becoming so simple since the 1950s that they consisted of three chords, written by teens and twenty-somethings, who didn't know what a diminished chord or a coda was. Mozart might've chuckled at the base naivity of it all. But they'd have loved multitrack recording.

 

Imagine, how mortified they'd have been had they seen the Grammy's. Or worse. TikTok 😅

 

On 2/16/2023 at 3:58 PM, Glammerocity said:

 

One of the things I like about kpop is the almost universal use of concepts and lore. Dreamcatcher had a trilogy of albums unified by a nghtmare concept, which is akin to Yes's Topographic Oceans triple album. It does allow for a lot of creativity in the videos and fans love to analyse them, finding things that might've been missed on first viewing, which expand on the concept and the band's lore.

 

Absolutely! The fun part is, that nowadays technology has become extremely accessibly, to the point where practically anyone with enough patience, skills and creativity, can realize their own concepts and lore, and all on a very reasonable budget. In fact, with the proper research, even elaborate visions and music videos can be brought to life, just by using open source creation suites and free assets (interactive applications included). That's not even the tip of the iceberg, though I don't want to hijack the thread lol. Its.. kind of mind boggling how so few musicians really look into these things.

[jhanover]

Most important question : Do you want to make your song to pop or do you want to make your song Pop?

It’s one thing to say…

” The stars shine bright, All through the night “

When you could say…

“ The ( diamonds, rhinestones, comets etc. ) danced divine, At least until the morning’s time “

Depends on what you are going after. Forced rhymes can be bad, predictable, and boring. Turn clichés on their heads instead of “ watching the grass grow “ why not “ watching the profits grow from grass “, unless you are in a state that doesn’t have legal weed of course then it’s a dealer saying lol.