The Silly Thread

[john]

2 hours ago, starise said:

My music is in between showcase and critique so I don't post a lot here lately. I was honored to interview two of the most famous mixing engineers on the planet and have autographed books from both of them. MIke Senior and Bob Katz inventor of the K system. I have read everything in those books and was glued to SOS for years, plus lots of trial and error. I know there's always something new to learn so I'm not saying I am above that, but neither am I by any means an amateur.

 

I always maybe falsely assumed forums were more about community. I mean really I don't come here for anything other than discussion and sometimes I'll put a track up. I don't need anything here.

 

I suspect most music gear is now sold to  hobbyists. Same with a forum. A subset of members might be interested in courses. I like a basic forum. I just want to go where I want to go. I don't need anything flashy or necessarily "different". 

 

What is a successful forum? 

 

Young people ( that's me too) well sort of   They need a vision.They think they can do it, they just need the tools and those willing to show them. We can't be selling them wind. There is a reality about all of this. If a person likes making music none of those things will really matter. They can be guided, but ultimately it's up to them.

 

Sounds about right to me   I would not say  a person who doesn't want criticism is weak in some way. If they come here though and post in the songs area they are likely looking for other opinions. It was at one time a habit to come here and post my songs.

 

I can't sell anything. Probaby because I have no desire to do so. 

Success and control- Money and power?  Look what that does to most people. 

 

Nice interviews to have done!

 

Just like there are different cars, there are different forums. Songstuff has been around for coming on 24 years. How forums fit in socially has changed. Online groups of any kind are at once similar and very different to groups of old.

 

Take any grouping of people on any platform and the group members will play a major role in shaping the group itself. Group leaders, official or unofficial, play a huge role too. The exact balance point depends on the group and the platform.

 

I learned a lot over the process. Things go in cycles, but some axioms hold true at any point. I also learned some painful truths.

 

For example, I took people at face value. I try to be fair, giving people second and third chances. I also tended to give more chances than they really deserved, and often the result was at the expense of the community and myself. The change 2 years ago was to increasingly move towards, “You knew the rules. You knew the consequences. For the greater good it is better that we firmly apply the rules and are not drawn into this ‘multiple chances’ approach. You are the weakest link, goodbye.”. Perhaps a bit more leniently than that, but we have increasingly made this choice with members making up their own rules as fits them.

 

For years I paid for the community. I largely still do. That meant it was free to everyone else. I got to the point of thinking “why am I paying for something that I get little thanks from a small group while the majority show little loyalty and no thanks, and give little respect to the site or me and ultimately I am paying for the whip to hit my own back. Crazy.

 

The painful lesson I learned was that while some people really people recognised the work done to provide this place and truly appreciate that it is free, a lot of people completely take free for granted. It doesn’t cost them anything and so it has no real value to them. I think it’s kind of sad, but I’ve seen it again and again.

 

That manifests in a few ways. While for a small group of forum members they get on with using a community, many others think something along the lines of “It was free before i came along, I don’t need to do anything, this place will still be free if I come back.”

 

What I learned from a bunch of forums that charge, is that charging triggers the “I want to get my money’s worth”. Paying members invest more time into communities. The more that is paid, the more people tend to invest their time. However, the psychology of even paying $1 a month still holds true.

 

If you look at many of the surviving and thriving forums, they are product oriented forums, like the fruity loops boards, or as you mentioned the previous cakewalk forums. Instead of a subscription fee, many such forums had entry fees in the form of the product cost. Now of course the software as a service model has brought that back to subscriptions.

 

The change for Songstuff is that while on one level we are retaining the essence of free boards, free articles etc, we are introducing a base subscription tier and we are introducing a support forum model for our courses etc. Yes the money helps offset against running costs, but a part of the motivation is to help foster increased loyalty and increased activity… and with forums and any social platforms, activity breeds activity.

 

Songstuff has always relied upon the outreach of staff and members for helping to draw in future members. Often that has been people reading our free articles or our music showcasing. That continues, but we will be supplementing that with people drawn through our course promotion and through info spread around about our courses. There is also a subtle difference in the profile of the people being attracted.

 

Some people are attracted to free info because it is free, others because it is just useful info. The point is, demonstrably the audience hasn’t had to make any commitment to progressing their art other than clicking a link. For a product based forum, the members have invested in themselves and their interest in music. That speaks volumes towards their psychological outlook. Sure, not everyone will be that typical member, but by investing in themselves they are making a statement to themselves and those around them… and that is important when it comes to behaviour.

 

At the same time, money raised will improve Songstuff. Staff wise, we hope that frees up existing staff. Instead of being bogged down in server updates, I get to spend more time making music and participating in the forums.

 

I could go on. The changes we have been making have many motivations, they address many issues.

 

I think we started with the best of intentions, and we are pivoting for the best and most positive of reasons to move in a positive direction, to make a better site and a better forum that supports our members in a better way.

 

Things are not set in stone. As it is we are not putting all of our eggs in one basket.

 

I am hopeful for the future. We’ve built Songstuff up several times over the years. What we do not in part addresses the choke hold my personal funds caused regarding site growth. I know why our boards are quieter. I know how to build them to be busier by a number of routes. The reality is that with a firm set of goals we can adapt and grow in a healthy way.

 

Onwards and upwards!

[starise]

15 hours ago, john said:

 

Nice interviews to have done!

 

Just like there are different cars, there are different forums. Songstuff has been around for coming on 24 years. How forums fit in socially has changed. Online groups of any kind are at once similar and very different to groups of old.

 

Take any grouping of people on any platform and the group members will play a major role in shaping the group itself. Group leaders, official or unofficial, play a huge role too. The exact balance point depends on the group and the platform.

 

I learned a lot over the process. Things go in cycles, but some axioms hold true at any point. I also learned some painful truths.

 

For example, I took people at face value. I try to be fair, giving people second and third chances. I also tended to give more chances than they really deserved, and often the result was at the expense of the community and myself. The change 2 years ago was to increasingly move towards, “You knew the rules. You knew the consequences. For the greater good it is better that we firmly apply the rules and are not drawn into this ‘multiple chances’ approach. You are the weakest link, goodbye.”. Perhaps a bit more leniently than that, but we have increasingly made this choice with members making up their own rules as fits them.

 

For years I paid for the community. I largely still do. That meant it was free to everyone else. I got to the point of thinking “why am I paying for something that I get little thanks from a small group while the majority show little loyalty and no thanks, and give little respect to the site or me and ultimately I am paying for the whip to hit my own back. Crazy.

 

The painful lesson I learned was that while some people really people recognised the work done to provide this place and truly appreciate that it is free, a lot of people completely take free for granted. It doesn’t cost them anything and so it has no real value to them. I think it’s kind of sad, but I’ve seen it again and again.

 

That manifests in a few ways. While for a small group of forum members they get on with using a community, many others think something along the lines of “It was free before i came along, I don’t need to do anything, this place will still be free if I come back.”

 

What I learned from a bunch of forums that charge, is that charging triggers the “I want to get my money’s worth”. Paying members invest more time into communities. The more that is paid, the more people tend to invest their time. However, the psychology of even paying $1 a month still holds true.

 

If you look at many of the surviving and thriving forums, they are product oriented forums, like the fruity loops boards, or as you mentioned the previous cakewalk forums. Instead of a subscription fee, many such forums had entry fees in the form of the product cost. Now of course the software as a service model has brought that back to subscriptions.

 

The change for Songstuff is that while on one level we are retaining the essence of free boards, free articles etc, we are introducing a base subscription tier and we are introducing a support forum model for our courses etc. Yes the money helps offset against running costs, but a part of the motivation is to help foster increased loyalty and increased activity… and with forums and any social platforms, activity breeds activity.

 

Songstuff has always relied upon the outreach of staff and members for helping to draw in future members. Often that has been people reading our free articles or our music showcasing. That continues, but we will be supplementing that with people drawn through our course promotion and through info spread around about our courses. There is also a subtle difference in the profile of the people being attracted.

 

Some people are attracted to free info because it is free, others because it is just useful info. The point is, demonstrably the audience hasn’t had to make any commitment to progressing their art other than clicking a link. For a product based forum, the members have invested in themselves and their interest in music. That speaks volumes towards their psychological outlook. Sure, not everyone will be that typical member, but by investing in themselves they are making a statement to themselves and those around them… and that is important when it comes to behaviour.

 

At the same time, money raised will improve Songstuff. Staff wise, we hope that frees up existing staff. Instead of being bogged down in server updates, I get to spend more time making music and participating in the forums.

 

I could go on. The changes we have been making have many motivations, they address many issues.

 

I think we started with the best of intentions, and we are pivoting for the best and most positive of reasons to move in a positive direction, to make a better site and a better forum that supports our members in a better way.

 

Things are not set in stone. As it is we are not putting all of our eggs in one basket.

 

I am hopeful for the future. We’ve built Songstuff up several times over the years. What we do not in part addresses the choke hold my personal funds caused regarding site growth. I know why our boards are quieter. I know how to build them to be busier by a number of routes. The reality is that with a firm set of goals we can adapt and grow in a healthy way.

 

Onwards and upwards!

 

Well I've seen a few of those easy to make forums popping up here and there. They generally die a slow death or only have a few who drop by. You  stuck with it when things were like that, so I think you deserve some return on that effort.

 

Sometimes it's a butt hurt member who decides to strike it out on their own and finds that it isn't as easy as it may seem. For one thing you have Google on you side in this in all of the searches. Hopefully it isn't articles from 2002. Sometimes these are the kinds of things that get hits because the tag is searched.

 

I want to encourage you in all of it. The reality is also hundreds of videos are posted on recording in YouTube every day by high level engineers. Lord only knows what they get from it. I mean an ego stroke only goes so far when you're on video number 1346 and you need new content at least every few days to stay relevant. Some of it is subsidized by vendors I would guess. When I had my podcast I was asking a year into it who the next peformer or engineer was going to be. It takes more than a passing interest in it to keep it going as they get about the same kind of thanks you get over time.

 

Staying the course will bring something. I stumbled on the fact that advertising entities were reaching out to me to endorse a client.  I learned it was an entry into another world where deals are made to position clients, and any author has interest in a podcast where that review will be online for years to come. I got out of it for various reasons. I had a decent radio voice and could have kept going with it. It's a lot like I thought I would love the restauraunt business and imagined running such a place. That would be cool. Wait a minute, I would be making food and hiring and that basically is a non stop job. You can't just turn it off over the weekend. No thanks.

 

You can delegate of course but then you need competent reliable people. If you are looking for volunteers I can see where that could be a challenge.

 

On modding, yeah people often feel they have more freedom online. At that other forum we have methods for giving them a fair chance. Thankfully there is a team, so it works pretty well. 

 

I am attempting to find relationships between what I do or did and what you are doing. Maybe there really aren't as many. I haven't had a lot of time to be around. This looks to be a busy year. It doesn't take long to make a post here, so it isn't an all day thing. Paying something for server costs is understandable but might be wasted on me. I say might. I throw something at that other site to help in costs. I think they use the same software you do. My income is due to drop this year as I am retiring young, so I will have an adjustment period to see what I need to do. I have a lot of monthly fees but most are small. I don't rent plug ins. Spotify and I pay like 12.00 a month for wifi in my Tesla. I believe my wife subscribes to Amazon music. Some other small stuff like charities and stuff like that. I don't think it's unreasonable, just not sure if I'll be here that much. Maybe ? 

 

I'm certainly not the main criteria, I wish you the very best and hope it all works out well for you. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[john]

6 hours ago, starise said:

 

Well I've seen a few of those easy to make forums popping up here and there. They generally die a slow death or only have a few who drop by. You  stuck with it when things were like that, so I think you deserve some return on that effort.

 

Sometimes it's a butt hurt member who decides to strike it out on their own and finds that it isn't as easy as it may seem. For one thing you have Google on you side in this in all of the searches. Hopefully it isn't articles from 2002. Sometimes these are the kinds of things that get hits because the tag is searched.

 

I want to encourage you in all of it. The reality is also hundreds of videos are posted on recording in YouTube every day by high level engineers. Lord only knows what they get from it. I mean an ego stroke only goes so far when you're on video number 1346 and you need new content at least every few days to stay relevant. Some of it is subsidized by vendors I would guess. When I had my podcast I was asking a year into it who the next peformer or engineer was going to be. It takes more than a passing interest in it to keep it going as they get about the same kind of thanks you get over time.

 

Staying the course will bring something. I stumbled on the fact that advertising entities were reaching out to me to endorse a client.  I learned it was an entry into another world where deals are made to position clients, and any author has interest in a podcast where that review will be online for years to come. I got out of it for various reasons. I had a decent radio voice and could have kept going with it. It's a lot like I thought I would love the restauraunt business and imagined running such a place. That would be cool. Wait a minute, I would be making food and hiring and that basically is a non stop job. You can't just turn it off over the weekend. No thanks.

 

You can delegate of course but then you need competent reliable people. If you are looking for volunteers I can see where that could be a challenge.

 

On modding, yeah people often feel they have more freedom online. At that other forum we have methods for giving them a fair chance. Thankfully there is a team, so it works pretty well. 

 

I am attempting to find relationships between what I do or did and what you are doing. Maybe there really aren't as many. I haven't had a lot of time to be around. This looks to be a busy year. It doesn't take long to make a post here, so it isn't an all day thing. Paying something for server costs is understandable but might be wasted on me. I say might. I throw something at that other site to help in costs. I think they use the same software you do. My income is due to drop this year as I am retiring young, so I will have an adjustment period to see what I need to do. I have a lot of monthly fees but most are small. I don't rent plug ins. Spotify and I pay like 12.00 a month for wifi in my Tesla. I believe my wife subscribes to Amazon music. Some other small stuff like charities and stuff like that. I don't think it's unreasonable, just not sure if I'll be here that much. Maybe ? 

 

I'm certainly not the main criteria, I wish you the very best and hope it all works out well for you. 

 

 

I should say, I said all that, not as a sales pitch… it would pretty much suck as a sales pitch. It’s kinda hard to explain what we’ve been up to and why without it sounding like a pitch, but it honestly wasn’t meant as such. I was genuinely responding to the nature and evolution of forums and your comments about thinking about them being communities. What forums were and their formats has changed. Where they fit in the spectrum of modern social platforms has changed. Where they are thriving still. It’s a narrower focus than it used to be.

 

Fingers crossed we’ve been making the right changes. I think making no changes would have been a really bad idea.

[VoiceEx]

On 2/13/2024 at 9:42 PM, starise said:

John was gracious enough to have an anything goes thread which I liked. All of that ended in name calling. I don't remember calling any names. I have better learned how to handle those things since then, so I handle those things differently. Most forums don't allow name calling. My skin has grown much thicker since then. I would laugh those guys off now.

 

Are you telling me that we actually had a thread where anyone could simply waltz right in, for no apparent reason, and start yelling at complete strangers, while handing out verbal abuse and snide remarks as if they hot cakes?! 😮 Well as far as ticking time bombs go THAT IS gracious indeed! Practically therapeutic! 🤣👍

 

On 2/13/2024 at 9:42 PM, starise said:

Musicians are typically a liberal bunch and I knew that going in, basically anything goes but I think everyone has a limit to that especially if it steps on someone else. The outcome of those discussions was probably expected. I have no idea what happened to all of those guys. One is on my FB but maybe he blocked me. For the record I don't argue or enjoy arguing, so it wasn't really fun to go there any more and John closed it down. The other one who referred to himself as a walking gut bag, not sure.

 

You know, I actually have a rather different take on that situation. While its true that such a thread was obviously going to get closed at some point because removing all filters tends to bring out the worse in people, I also happen to think that thread may have been rather useful. After all, when you give people a free pass to say anything they want, you also get better insight about them. Especially if they go off rails.

 

And if by chance most if not all the troublemakers and their friends would volunteer to be in the same place.. then.. well.. that would be rather convenient, wouldn't you say? Better than chasing them around, if you catch my drift 😅

On 2/13/2024 at 9:42 PM, starise said:

There are two reasons anyone goes to a critique area and at one time I didn't know what I liked so I was open to letting someone else  suggest things. I still am to some extent, but I don't feel I need approval. I could nit any of the top ten hits and find errors. I think there's a page somewhere that has all of the little mistakes hits had in them. AC/DC  made some drasitc tempo changes which would not fly today. Most of the time when I upload something I hear all of the stupid things in it. I just made changes recently and I'm not finished yet to a few of my recent ones. That's really what works best for me. Just listening to it and trying to decide if what I heard was bad enough to warrant correction. Since mixing is a bit of an art there are lots of ways to mix an given song in addition to the artistic music decisions. Chances are if I released something in one mix at midnight I will be very sorry the next day, but it's a snap shot of where I was then and shows room for improvement.

 

There's nothing wrong with finding out what you're okay with. The internet is filled with armchair critics whose advice could potentially be harmful to your production. That's one of the reasons why I personally don't pay much attention to suggestions given to me by people whose own production value leaves much to be desired. I'd rather listen to advice from people that know what they are doing, but also posses an in depth understanding of what would benefit my specific needs.

 

To put that in perspective, I think that any good producer can give you good advice that's worth taking in, regardless of whether or not you happen to produce the same kind of music as them. However, I find that what's even better, is getting advice from multiple sources, as well as getting advice from producers whose livelihood revolves around specializing in what you're actually into. That way you get the best of multiple worlds.

 

As for nit picking and finding errors in hits. Have you considered turning that into educational content? Could be fun. I'd give a watch, that's for sure 👍

 

On 2/13/2024 at 9:42 PM, starise said:

My music is in between showcase and critique so I don't post a lot here lately. I was honored to interview two of the most famous mixing engineers on the planet and have autographed books from both of them. MIke Senior and Bob Katz inventor of the K system. I have read everything in those books and was glued to SOS for years, plus lots of trial and error. I know there's always something new to learn so I'm not saying I am above that, but neither am I by any means an amateur.

 

Wow that's cool! 😮 Is there somewhere I could read/listen/watch said interview?

 

On 2/13/2024 at 9:42 PM, starise said:

Well it's nice to meet you here! I would probably not be on forums as much if I were not working a computer job that has frequent times of intermission in waiting for programs to load etc. A forum is a great way to draw in persons we assume have similar or the same interests. I had something like 30,000 posts on the cakewalk forum when bandlab bought them. That's the DAW I cut my teeth on.When the site changed I lost my post count.  I'm still there but not as much since I adopted Ableton as my main DAW, and unfortunately Ableton has a terrible forum area IMHO. Maybe similar to Cubase. Like the girl you knew lived down the street you never gave much thought to, and then later got a crush on her, that's how Ableton grew on me. At first I didn't get the concept. Now I won't work in much of anything else. Cubase has lots of capability and I was using it successfully as well, but then I figured Ableton out.

 

Its nice to meet you too! I've actually been here since 2019 though my activity varies depending on my work. That's probably why we haven't bumped into each other until now. Not to mention, I mostly hang out in the Musician's Lounge because that's where the fun is for me.

 

Its interesting that you're an Ableton guy. I am familiar with it I know many people that swear by it. Though personally, I mostly use Nuendo and Pro Tools. They fit my needs nicely and I probably won't switch to anything else in the foreseeable future.

 

On 2/13/2024 at 9:42 PM, starise said:

I always maybe falsely assumed forums were more about community. I mean really I don't come here for anything other than discussion and sometimes I'll put a track up. I don't need anything here.

 

You know? I used to feel the same way as you do for a very long time. That is because much like you I didn't come here because I needed something. In fact, you could even say that I was rather hostile at the beginning. However, that was a long time ago. Nowadays I can safely say that this is pretty much the only forum whose community and staff I care for.

 

And coming from me I think that says alot because my attitude is inquisition-style: "If you don't interest me as a person, you might as well be a fly on the wall. And I expect the same treatment from you". Pretty harsh but also fair 👍

 

On 2/13/2024 at 9:42 PM, starise said:

I just want to go where I want to go. I don't need anything flashy or necessarily "different". 

 

Same here. Give me interesting people to talk too and I'm golden 👌

 

On 2/13/2024 at 9:42 PM, starise said:

What is a successful forum? 

 

I don't really know. I wanna say.. an active one? 😅

 

On 2/13/2024 at 9:42 PM, starise said:

Young people ( that's me too) well sort of   They need a vision.They think they can do it, they just need the tools and those willing to show them. We can't be selling them wind. There is a reality about all of this. If a person likes making music none of those things will really matter. They can be guided, but ultimately it's up to them.

 

I think that Songstuff has ALOT to offer to musicians of all ages. Though whether or not Songstuff reaches what I believe is its full potential remains to be seen. Though I am rooting for us all and I think that John knows what he is doing. I have faith in him.

 

On 2/13/2024 at 9:42 PM, starise said:

Sounds about right to me   I would not say  a person who doesn't want criticism is weak in some way. If they come here though and post in the songs area they are likely looking for other opinions. It was at one time a habit to come here and post my songs.

 

Way that I see it, if a person can't handle criticism is a place like this, which has a relatively mature audience, and is very tamed if compared to, lets say, Reddit, social media, Youtube, then how on earth do they expect to deal with a bigger audience? 🤔 I'd worry for their mental well being. I don't like to say it, but I do think that some people are simply not stable enough to share their music.

 

On 2/13/2024 at 9:42 PM, starise said:

I can't sell anything. Probaby because I have no desire to do so.

Success and control- Money and power?  Look what that does to most people.

 

Oh I'm sure that you could. These days practically everything is marketable. Though thankfully I don't think that we'll be seeing here any power hungry billionaires anytime soon 👍

[starise]

4 hours ago, VoiceEx said:

Are you telling me that we actually had a thread where anyone could simply waltz right in, for no apparent reason, and start yelling at complete strangers, while handing out verbal abuse and snide remarks as if they hot cakes?! 😮 Well as far as ticking time bombs go THAT IS gracious indeed! Practically therapeutic! 🤣👍

Well, it was mostly musicians here and it was really only two individuals who didn't get on with me. I regularly debate now as a part of what I do. I like to call it discussion that doesn't always agree, so really they were probably a typical sampling if I had walked into Manchester where one is from or a state here in the US and picked anyone on the street. It's really a sampling of most people nowdays who have a view they are comfortable with and are confident they can rationalize it to themselves, but when pressed they can't so they resort to other measures. The people I talk to now are really friends so we don't have a problem disagreeing and still being friends. I wouldn't dare go there here any more as this isn't the place for it.

I liked it though because all of the facade was stripped away and we seen each other in a more real way. I like real, not socially presentable

 

4 hours ago, VoiceEx said:

You know, I actually have a rather different take on that situation. While its true that such a thread was obviously going to get closed at some point because removing all filters tends to bring out the worse in people, I also happen to think that thread may have been rather useful. After all, when you give people a free pass to say anything they want, you also get better insight about them. Especially if they go off rails.

 

And if by chance most if not all the troublemakers and their friends would volunteer to be in the same place.. then.. well.. that would be rather convenient, wouldn't you say? Better than chasing them around, if you catch my drift 😅

 

If a person doesn't dislike that kind of friction which I think can also be helpful and if there is a set of rules such as, talk about the subject and not about the person. That's where most of those types of things degrade. For instance if I generalize a group of people and call them all morons, I see that as a negative stereotype generally associated with someone who has a world view they don't agree with. By default any person in that group is a moron supposedly. There are the red herrings and the straw man arguments too. That's really what brought that thread down IMO. No matter what a person percieves about another group I don't think it can be accurately said that all memebers of that group or similar groups which may number in the millions, are the same or are in the group for the same reasons, or that I even have a good grasp of the group or groups itself as I might not have a total grasp of the group I'm attacking. 

 

4 hours ago, VoiceEx said:

There's nothing wrong with finding out what you're okay with. The internet is filled with armchair critics whose advice could potentially be harmful to your production. That's one of the reasons why I personally don't pay much attention to suggestions given to me by people whose own production value leaves much to be desired. I'd rather listen to advice from people that know what they are doing, but also posses an in depth understanding of what would benefit my specific needs.

 

I have a friend. He has made many many albums. He regularly tours the US and abroad. I will accompany him the next tour. I have begun to get his input. He is very gracious so he drops the hammer gently lol. I think we need to face one thing here that may come off as cocky, but really it isn't. Some people lack self confidence and feel a need for affirmation through their music. If our music is a big part of who we are, there can be a thin shell to criticism. To affirm is to encourage. To find fault is to tear down for them. It's human nature really. Some people place their intrinsic value in what they make, so if what they make is not that good they feel useless. A person can easily wind up continually changing things someone else thinks need to be changed and spend years in critique threads instead of finding their own way. The main thing is do I like it? If I like it then why am I putting it on a critique thread? 

This isn't to say newbs don't need basic mixing skills in a home studio, and none of that has to be overly complex.

 

4 hours ago, VoiceEx said:

Wow that's cool! 😮 Is there somewhere I could read/listen/watch said interview?

I wish. John will tell you because I interviewed at least one person here who was at the time probably the "star" of the site so far as popularity and plays on SC.The engineers would probably remember me. I am on X as recording hound with that old logo. I should have saved the audio files in the chance that I might restart in the future, but unfortunately I didn't. I know. I could kick myself.

 

4 hours ago, VoiceEx said:

Its nice to meet you too! I've actually been here since 2019 though my activity varies depending on my work. That's probably why we haven't bumped into each other until now. Not to mention, I mostly hang out in the Musician's Lounge because that's where the fun is for me.

 

Its interesting that you're an Ableton guy. I am familiar with it I know many people that swear by it. Though personally, I mostly use Nuendo and Pro Tools. They fit my needs nicely and I probably won't switch to anything else in the foreseeable future.

👍I am similar in that I don't go as to technical  areas and I end up in lounges instead. I took a very long hiatus for varying personal reasons from here. 

I think we all have our favorites. Those two DAWS are excellent and if you like working in them and you know them why move to anything else?

Ableton is moving to version 12 so I'll probably upgrade it from 11. I went through a process when I tried many of them. I have Studio one. It is packed with many nice features including an excellent mastering suite, Cubase is nice and has a lot of great plugins included. Instruments not so much. When I began on Cakewalk it was a DAW with many instruments included that were all pretty good. It was payed then. A very linear way of making music similar to many others.

I'm glad I went to Ableton because Cakewalk is tied to Bandlab and has a nag screen. Still ok, but not as stable overall as Ableton which is also cross platform.

Ableton is really like two DAWs in one with those two screens one more abstact and the other linear, so you can build the arrangement on the first screen and then record it to the linear section.I have two monitors so it's dope.

 For me, I don't think there is a better arrangement tool on the planet, in addition ot it's excellent time stretching features once you know how it works.I love it!

 

4 hours ago, VoiceEx said:

ou know? I used to feel the same way as you do for a very long time. That is because much like you I didn't come here because I needed something. In fact, you could even say that I was rather hostile at the beginning. However, that was a long time ago. Nowadays I can safely say that this is pretty much the only forum whose community and staff I care for.

 

And coming from me I think that says alot because my attitude is inquisition-style: "If you don't interest me as a person, you might as well be a fly on the wall. And I expect the same treatment from you". Pretty harsh but also fair 👍

 

Interesting. I'm glad you are here and like it. The forum has been through many revisions. I came here to get mixing advice originally, but not so much any more. Many of those who frequented here no longer come by for various reasons.

I hop around to three of four forums of different types, so I guess this isn't as much of a mainstay for me any more. I do like a lot of the things and people here though.

Well I hope I made the grade lol. The more you know me the less I'll probably interest you, so there's that

I don't have an off button for anyone, but I realize that some people are caustic and so they are not the kinds of people I would surround myself with. A true friend is always honest. I don't see that as caustic. They want to be helpful.

4 hours ago, VoiceEx said:

Same here. Give me interesting people to talk too and I'm golden 👌

 

👌

4 hours ago, VoiceEx said:

I don't really know. I wanna say.. an active one? 😅

 

This isn't the only forum around that is slow from what I've seen lately. There tend to be slumps. I think part of it is people are more into social media and sites with media, Facebook, Tictoc,X,Youtube. Youtube is probably my favorite.

 

I imagine myself coming here for the first time. I would be like, no I don't need that, I don't want that, where is the actual forum?? Oh wait, there's a lounge and people are talking about recording and DAWs! For everyone else that answer will likely be different. If a person comes here looking for education and there is a course offered, they will compare it with other similar courses and make a decision. In that respect it's more of a vendor thing to them maybe? LIke I have this tune I made, how good is it?? and if it is ok, then how can I promote it? I know for a fact it's a jungle out there. Say I have a tune and I put it on a hosting site that puts it out to all the major places Amazon, Spotify, Youtube etc. One of my friends who is a very good musician does that and gets pennies for it. If financial viability is what a person is looking for you almost need to tour and sell merchandise.Even then you ain't typically rich. Prolly make more as a Nashville studio musician doing recording gigs on the side.

4 hours ago, VoiceEx said:

I think that Songstuff has ALOT to offer to musicians of all ages. Though whether or not Songstuff reaches what I believe is its full potential remains to be seen. Though I am rooting for us all and I think that John knows what he is doing. I have faith in him.

 

Yes John has a vision. Best to him.

4 hours ago, VoiceEx said:

Way that I see it, if a person can't handle criticism in a place like this, which has a relatively mature audience, and is very tamed if compared to, lets say, Reddit, social media, Youtube, then how on earth do they expect to deal with a bigger audience? 🤔 I'd worry for their mental well being. I don't like to say it, but I do think that some people are simply not stable enough to share their music.

 

A lot of my music is intended for  specific groups, so most anyone else isn't going to get it. And it's funny because I was part of a team that had to dismiss a guy from a site and one of his parting comments was " Oh and I went to your website, your music is the worst effing stuff I have ever heard". TBH I didn't loose any sleep over it as I knew he was hurt. In a song trade situation where I'm giving you critique and you are giving me critique, I believe probability is high that good comments come and bad comments are often subdued. Not always, but noone wants commentary from "that guy".

I remember wanting to hear there is a bug on the windshield that needs to be wiped off,or my tail pipe is hanging and this person wanted me to rebuild the car. After spending hours on a mix to have someone wanting you to rearrange your song or make major changes to it is an impossibility for me. Not to mention reworking something I like. Intrinsically I don't have any desire to change it that much.

If I'm writing a tune with you or someone else, then yes, you have that ability to make those suggestions. I will listen at that stage, but not after the tune is completed. And if it isn't that great. I move on to make something better. I'm always moving forward. I did make some major revisions to one lately and I'm still not happy with it, but I decided that what I didn't like wasn't going to kill it, so off it goes and on to another.

4 hours ago, VoiceEx said:

Oh I'm sure that you could. These days practically everything is marketable. Though thankfully I don't think that we'll be seeing here any power hungry billionaires anytime soon 👍

I was a salesman a few times in my life and I ended up pointing them to the place down the street because I knew it was better   When someone comes to me and is looking for something, I hope there's nothing in it for me because then I won't be tempted to point them to a decision based on me.

 

Edited February 15 by starise