Want Your Opinion - 4 tracks, 8 parts

[john]

I guess that is something that control surfaces try to give, but they are too limited in the amount of tracks that can be physically controlled at the same time.

I remember having to rehearse mixes. Getting your mute/unmute at the right point, fade ins, swells, cross fades, panning. Good stuff.

[Donna]

Prometheus, right on time! Boy, it's good to see you and with just the answer I needed (to a question I hadn't yet asked) about rolling the lows and all as regards separation for a many parts mix.

Just to be sure: to roll off means to "up" the htz tier, NOT the gain?

John: Scared is my middle name right now Keep saying "don't be"...

Hey Prometheus, how about songplanet for your stuff?

Edited March 16, 2006 by Donna

[Prometheus]

Prometheus, right on time! Boy, it's good to see you and with just the answer I needed (to a question I hadn't yet asked) about rolling the lows and all as regards separation for a many parts mix.

Just to be sure: to roll off means to "up" the htz tier, NOT the gain?

John: Scared is my middle name right now Keep saying "don't be"...

Hey Prometheus, how about songplanet for your stuff?

Okay! This is a pretty good graph of a Roll Off... I used this one on a song of mine where I had linked a lot of guitar tracks through one buss, and then put this Roll off on the buss to seperate the guitars from the bass guitar and kick drum, which were drowning... In fact, I used a few notches in the mid as well and I shelved the high end up a bit, by a took all that away to make this photo so it would look less confusing...

this Roll off looks pretty savage, and it is, but I was using a Les Paul Copy with two humbuckers, and that is a lot of low end harmonics!

Now, here is an example of high shelving...

And one of low shelving...

How to get this on a Tascam 246? I'm not sure, because I've never actually seen one, but I'm sure it can be done, and this shows you a bit of the theory behind it... You get a nice punchy bass guitar sound if you boost 110 Hz a little, so you can see I've started the roll off a little higher than that to leave some space there... The only thing you have to watch is that you don't over do it, or your guitar or piano or whatever might end up sounding a bit weedy, but you can be reasonably sure that anything below around 50 Hertz on most instruments is just rumble... The low E on a guitar is a 42 Hertz fundamental, but you can roll off from higher than that without it suffering because your bass guitar is carrying the low end of the mix... If you are doing a mix with no basso instruments in it, then obviously you have to be more cautious with this kind of stuff... From what I heard on your last mix, you've got a good ear for EQ, so just trust your judgement!

Edited March 16, 2006 by Prometheus

[john]

Nice one Prometheus.

Donna, you might find these articles useful too:

http://recording.songstuff.com/articles.php?selected=54

http://recording.songstuff.com/articles.php?selected=43

http://www.songstuff.com/articles.php?selected=53

In terms of achieving the shapes prometheus mentions you'll need to check the filter types on your 246 EQ. My guess is a sweepable shelving filter (Prometheus pic 2 and 3) rather than hi and lo pass (pic 1), although in some EQs this is selectable.

You can approximate the hi-lo pass just by cutting by the maximum.

Cheers

John

[Prometheus]

Nice one Prometheus.

Donna, you might find these articles useful too:

http://recording.songstuff.com/articles.php?selected=54

http://recording.songstuff.com/articles.php?selected=43

http://www.songstuff.com/articles.php?selected=53

In terms of achieving the shapes prometheus mentions you'll need to check the filter types on your 246 EQ. My guess is a sweepable shelving filter (Prometheus pic 2 and 3) rather than hi and lo pass (pic 1), although in some EQs this is selectable.

You can approximate the hi-lo pass just by cutting by the maximum.

Cheers

John

Good articles John... Hell, EQ is black art in itself!

[Guest voclizr]

Hey Donna;

I don't know if this was mentioned here already, but you might also have the ability to add an additional input while you're bouncing to a track! I could do that with my Fostex 160. I could, for example, bounce tracks 1,2 & 3 to track 4, PLUS I could plug in another input into track 4 while bouncing. This gives you yet another source while bouncing per each track. On my Fostex 4 track, I could get a total of 10 sources per song. Check out your Tascam. If I could do this with my Fostex, I'm sure you can do this.

John B.

PS: Nuke (Mix 2) is on Soundclick. See thread in Demo Reviews

[Donna]

Prometheus, yes, it's understandable...once again. You and John could open a school, I think. Thanks for the pictures and tutorial. I agree, mixing is def. an art within itself.

John - I'm rushing, but will look at those articles! Yes, I have a sweepable eq. I wouldn't have known the top pic of the roll off wasn't in the 'sweepable' category. btw, I rehearse the mixes, too. My only problem is not digging into this art deeply as I wish to - one can't do everything, tho.

JB - yeah, the 246 can do what you said. Got yo' message about Nuke 2 and could only get the low-fi to play. I like it a lot - those strings! Great choice/execution for youur revised mix.

[Donna]

Prometheus, yes, it's understandable...once again. You and John could open a school, I think. Thanks for the pictures and tutorial. I agree, mixing is def. an art within itself.

John - I'm rushing, but will look at those articles! Yes, I have a sweepable eq. I wouldn't have known the top pic of the roll off wasn't in the 'sweepable' category. btw, I rehearse the mixes, too. My only problem is not digging into this art deeply as I wish to - one can't do everything, tho.

JB - yeah, the 246 can do what you said. Got yo' message about Nuke 2 and could only get the low-fi to play. I like it a lot - those strings! Great choice/execution for youur revised mix.

[Prometheus]

Prometheus, yes, it's understandable...once again. You and John could open a school, I think. Thanks for the pictures and tutorial. I agree, mixing is def. an art within itself.

John - I'm rushing, but will look at those articles! Yes, I have a sweepable eq. I wouldn't have known the top pic of the roll off wasn't in the 'sweepable' category. btw, I rehearse the mixes, too. My only problem is not digging into this art deeply as I wish to - one can't do everything, tho.

JB - yeah, the 246 can do what you said. Got yo' message about Nuke 2 and could only get the low-fi to play. I like it a lot - those strings! Great choice/execution for youur revised mix.

that's maybe not a bad idea Donna... Starting work on a mixing engineer's bible... Apart from a couple of video projects and making some dodgy live recordings of my own band, I've been more or less sitting on my hands since Christmas. That would give me something constructive to do...

Edited March 18, 2006 by Prometheus

[Donna]

Mixing Engineers Bible...yeah, the "MEB".

I'd buy it!

Since Christmas...it seemed like stuff was all mapped out, but have had to take many detours since. Now it's like I can't find the map.

Well, let's have a drink, huh? Beer for you, calm-down tea for me

[john]

Prometheus, yes, it's understandable...once again. You and John could open a school, I think. Thanks for the pictures and tutorial. I agree, mixing is def. an art within itself.

John - I'm rushing, but will look at those articles! Yes, I have a sweepable eq. I wouldn't have known the top pic of the roll off wasn't in the 'sweepable' category. btw, I rehearse the mixes, too. My only problem is not digging into this art deeply as I wish to - one can't do everything, tho.

JB - yeah, the 246 can do what you said. Got yo' message about Nuke 2 and could only get the low-fi to play. I like it a lot - those strings! Great choice/execution for youur revised mix.

Hey Donna

The fact that they are sweepable is not the difference (though low/hi pass can be fixed frequency).

Hi and lowpass filters can be sweepable, but they are not shelving filters. If you look at Prometheus diagrams you'll see that Diagram 1 is flat and the graph bends at the cut off frequency (which can be sweepable) and then reduces the gain at probably 20 db/decade (reduces gain by 20 decibels for every factor of 10 change in the frequency).

In the shelving diagram 2 you see that the graph is flat until it gets to the cut off point, where it reduces at 20 db/decade until it reaches the gain reduction amount set by the gain pot for that EQ band. Yet again this is sweepable.

Cheers

John

[Prometheus]

Mixing Engineers Bible...yeah, the "MEB".

I'd buy it!

Since Christmas...it seemed like stuff was all mapped out, but have had to take many detours since. Now it's like I can't find the map.

Well, let's have a drink, huh? Beer for you, calm-down tea for me

I'll send you a copy of each chapter as I'm working on it, and you can let me know if it's clear or not...

[Prometheus]

Hey Donna

The fact that they are sweepable is not the difference (though low/hi pass can be fixed frequency).

Hi and lowpass filters can be sweepable, but they are not shelving filters. If you look at Prometheus diagrams you'll see that Diagram 1 is flat and the graph bends at the cut off frequency (which can be sweepable) and then reduces the gain at probably 20 db/decade (reduces gain by 20 decibels for every factor of 10 change in the frequency).

In the shelving diagram 2 you see that the graph is flat until it gets to the cut off point, where it reduces at 20 db/decade until it reaches the gain reduction amount set by the gain pot for that EQ band. Yet again this is sweepable.

Cheers

John

The cut off points on the high and low pass filters are sweepable on the waves EQ... That is a very versatile EQ, and I woul recommend the Waves Bundle to anyone doing computer based mixing...

[john]

I'll send you a copy of each chapter as I'm working on it, and you can let me know if it's clear or not...

Do we get to publish excerpts on Songstuff?

[Prometheus]

Do we get to publish excerpts on Songstuff?

Absolutely...

[Donna]

Prometheus, I'd be honored.

(*off to look at eq graphs*) shelving/wallpaper/new dinner plates; no, no - SHELVING/EQ/SWEEPABLE/BEER/CALM-DOWN TEA

cheers, y'all!

[Donna]

John - in diagram 2...is the gain reduction amt "set by the gain pot for that EQ band"...would that number be 4.1, corresponding to the number 4 highlighted on that vertical panel of eq "types" one can choose from?

[john]

John - in diagram 2...is the gain reduction amt "set by the gain pot for that EQ band"...would that number be 4.1, corresponding to the number 4 highlighted on that vertical panel of eq "types" one can choose from?

yep

[Donna]

Woo-hoo. Hmm. I can see the value of being able to "see" the eq...

John, can I ask you something regarding the splitter jack? I went to get one and the Radio Shack guy pointed me to cables they had, saying I should get stereo cable (which have two embeddedd rings below tip, not one, for anyone reading this who's ignorant like me). I've never heard of this or used one to my knowledge, either with the 4-track, old keyboard, or going guitar to amp. Why would he say that, and would it make a difference using regular guitar cables w/ the splitter jack? (The jack is 1/4 inch, stereo).

I've never heard of this before from any musician, nor saw it in the tascam manual as regards regular recording.

Thanks...

[john]

I was meaning somethnig like this...

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?Module...aptors&doy=20m3