john

Hi and welcome to Songstuff Louis!

Hi Karanis, Nice intro. I look forward to reading your lyrics and hearing finished songs. Welcome to Songstuff!

HI and welcome to Songstuff We try to be nice but..... mwuahahahahahaha *evil laugh*

Hi and welcome to Songstuff Andy!

Hey Amram, welcome to Songstuff! It's always good when a lurker coverts. Good stuff.

Good to meet you. It's a good journey to take... I might be a little prejudiced, but I can't think of a better travelling companion than Songstuff dont worry, we were all noobs here at some point. Ok no one was around to see my noobness, but still, a noob I was double let don't worry, you lose that tag soon

Ah good. I knew it had something to do with missing out on Songstuff! It all makes sense now!

because.......? I don't think they are members of Songstuff (though I could be wrong lol)... they do not know just what they are missing out on.... is that why you feel sorry for them?

Hey Sami, great to meet you... Welcome to Songstuff!

Hey Skylark I should point out most of those points regarding what I inferred were actually questions that it prompted, not conclusions. As we both mentioned your opinion is your opinion... I was just surprised and somewhat taken aback. Text doesn't always accurately convey strength of emotion, or indeed balance of emotion... but as a reader it seemed quite a strongly worded post. The strength of my reaction is in part due to that. The unexpectedness and the strength is what made it feel like a slap.... though admittedly I am protective of both community and site... I like to think not overly so! lol Still, rightly or wrongly, I doubt I would be the only one to feel a reaction to your words. Yeah sadly that aspect of the community has been pretty quiet of late, but we have a plan! I've been focused on quite fundamental changes to the site for quite some time... Far from complete, but I have pretty well got to the point where I have time to refocus on the strengths of the community, and the ongoing structural improvements are less fundamental, and less time consuming. All in we should see an unptick in all activity as we get back to building the community and what it offers to our members. On a personal note.. I am soooooo glad to be getting back to involvement in the community from creating content (articles, posts, blogs, training material, workshops, ebooks etc), promoting and fundamentally interacting with my fellow writers and musicians. I have been in the technical implementation dungeon for way too long! Thanks for your nice comments on the site improvements. What can i say, we care. We try to push improvements as best as we can. It's good to know that changes are noticable. Cheers John

Hi and a big welcome to Songstuff Florian!

Wow. I am puzzled. Why did you post this Skylark? I ask because, you dug up a 6 year old topic that hasn't been posted to for 2 years, and then focused on running down both thread and site. At least, that is how it reads. At the same time you avoid actually answering the question (which would at least have shown that you have a good understanding of the issues involved) ... Including failing to explain why you think previous answers fell short of the mark. I don't get it. There are plenty tech heads here whose opinions and advice are at least as valid as your own, if not more so in some cases. Instead you make unsupported assertions which demonstrate that you have an opinion on the subject but not what or why. You then announce an unexplained verdict on the thread and community and your advice is that they should go elsewhere? Did something happen? If someone offers a critique such as "Your song is crap" but offers no explanation or reasoning... Even you would call them out. The issue is not that you think the song is crap, that is your opinion. It is the lack of any explanation that is the first problem. You are a smart and articulate man. As it stands your reply only serves to raise questions about your motive for posting. For example: What are you trying to achieve? Do you have an axe to grind, or are you engaged in classic trolling? Do you feel superior, or do you have a motive other than the OP or other reader's knowledge and understanding? Etc. All in all, very disappointing when I know you are capable of so much more. Neither does it suggest any respect for either Songstuff or our community members. Hence me asking if something happened. Reading back over the topic I just don't see why you have reacted like this. Yes there are better topics, but your reply is simply a slap and put down. Communities improve based on member contributions to their knowledge base, by goodwill and a willingness to help each other. Telling people to "run" or to "look elsewhere" does nothing to build the knowledge base and ultimately undermines the community. Answering in the way you have doesn't particularly help anyone either. I respect your experience with making music, but such a non answer and slap in the face is just destructive.

A fair departure notice, and far more than most give on leaving a band. Hopefully it will be an amicable break.

Hey Lola, welcome to Songstuff Sounds like you have good motivation.

Are you, as an indiie musician, supported by your friends, family and fans?

No problem. We understand that new members won't know how our boards operate. I'd prefer to say and give you the best chance of getting review, than let you middle along wondering why you aren't getting comments In actual fact, you will get better, long term benefits as a writer, by performing critiques on other's works. There are a couple of articles you can read on Songstuff about exactly that, but in essence in reviewing you use all your writing skills of looking at works with a view to examine and improve them. Even better you don't have the personal attachment writers often have with their own work. This allows them to develop their writing skills without the limitations caused by that personal attachment (such as reluctance to change lines). It's amazing how much of a difference that makes! enjoy the boards

I actually had a bit more time and read back... I don't think Jim123 was denigrating academic analysis, or indeed saying that he doesn't analyse, formally or informally... more that for him, "liking" feels like a gut reaction to the song. However, I too would bet that an academic analysis of good songs would be likely to produce a better hit rate of songs that Jim123 would have a good gut reaction to. The fact is we all analyse, all the time. We judge creativity by a great number of measures. Exactly what appeals to our taste may appear to be fairly individual, but that doesn't mean that it isn't predictable.The simple fact is that if you can work out what appeals to you about the songs that you like, and you can distill that down into set factors... you will be able to analyse those factors and then use that knowledge within your writing process to increase the likeability of your songs. I guess it also depends on what we consider to be "academic". I would say that anything that uses knowledge, study and learning falls into this category. I mean, simple grammar can affect likeability. We may well suspect that an element of poor grammar works within certain songs, but even then there are limits.There are rules about language, rhyme, rhythm... all of those can be measured. We can also know that hooks placed in certain places tend to be more effective. Similarly, we know using the title within the song can have a positive effect on the song being remembered.... and so on. Analysis doesn't stop there in terms of usefulness. Does all that correlate to a successful song? No. In mathematics you can learn how to manipulate numbers, you can learn techniques, formulae etc. However to then use those mathematical skills to come up with a theory of the universe, takes a combination of knowledge, skills, analysis AND creativity. To use creativity without the others can condemn you to wandering around going nowhere fast. The same is true about using reaction without a framework or understanding the context of the reaction. If you use what you learn, you can guide your future writing so that you are more likely to create a song with broad and strong appeal. My sister is a senior lecturer in Psychology. Her expertise is language and how it is used and understood. Marketers use their knowledge of language all the time, in order to manipulate us into liking and buying. Advertising is founded on this knowledge. As is brand creation. The point is, if you think that knowledge, understanding, analysis has nothing to do with likeability or predicting likeability, or improving your ability to create more likeable songs... you are kidding yourself. If you don't think that you do that as a listener, even informally, you are really, really kidding yourself. Otherwise, how on earth do you assess anything? Likeability is just as measurable and almost as predictable as anything else.Of course it is not absolutely dead set, because it still relies upon your creativity in applying your knowledge (just like the mathematics) Cheers John

I hear the same of using a songwriting process, or any formal approach to Songwriting... as if both creativity and emotion are neutered by using these approaches. In the case of writing I find that tends to come from misunderstanding and often a feeling of self-righteous superiority. I often find that artists who assert this like to think they are "free", but from my perspective I tend to think they are in a rut of recycled thoughts and ideas. Not always by any means. Similarly arguments against making money from music are often cited by those same people.

Hi Alvin Welcome to Songstuff! We have rules and standards, my comments below are intended to help you get a good response to your critique request, and for you to get the most you can from our community. A couple of things: This is the introduction board. Members expect to see introductions here. We have a lyrics critique board specifically for giving and getting critique. Please note the board has some rules (for example, one lyric per topic. A limit to one new lyric critique topic, per day, per member.) Additionally, you will be expected to take part. This means: Reply to members who take the time to offer you feedback and discuss their comments and suggestions Members expect you to critique the work of other members. It is part of the deal. If you are unwilling to comment on the work of others, why would they take time to look at your work? You may well initially get comments if you make no effort, but members do notice and comments will stop... So please, take part. Experience is not necessary, just let the members whose work you comment know that you are knew to this. Our site is English language only... This is to have a standard that members can follow, and it allows our moderators (who live all over the world) to be able to moderate content... An impossible task if we had to allow all language. It is not prejudice, simply being realistic. As you write English well enough for your first post. This doesn't mean "don't post your songs". What it means is please post a translation, ideally as part of the text of the post, not a PDF. Many mobile phone users do not have a PDFs reader on their phone. Even if they do, it makes it more accessible.

Hey Stark, welcome to Songstuff

Welcome to Songstuff

He must be writing a song about me! Lol

Hey, welcome to Songstuff

Hey Oliver, welcome to Songstuff

Hi Bel, welcome to Songstuff