john

Hey Derek, welcome to Songstuff Good to have you aboard.

In summary, in common terms, mandatory deposits aside (which as far as i see it, do not apply to Songstuff directly): No matter where your music is made available, or where you are based, posting your songs on Songstuff and other forums, blogs etc is a useful chain of evidence when it comes to proof of authorship and / or proof of ownership. This is useful if you are ever in the unfortunate position of having to prove your ownership or authorship. If you are based in the UK or in many other countries posting on Songstuff IS publication of your work. This is NOT the case in the USA, or at least it is not clear cut as to whether posting on Songstuff is publication. (note: posting by Songstuff staff, for example as part of an article on the main site IS definitely publication, it is the self-publication of blogs and forum posts that is in question). In the UK and many countries there is no need for registration of copyright. Copyright is automatically established on publication. In the USA and some other countries (Check your country's intellectual property laws) you need to expressly register your songs to establish a copyright claim. This is done via the US Copyright Office. It costs $35 per song, or per collection. US citizens are supposed to do this. For non-USA citizens, this is mainly where the debate above has occured. There is an agreement that registration should occur in order to pursue any claim through a US court (for any infringement that happens within the US jurisdiction). Where the debate seems to be is on whether you need to register your songs up front (prior to any infringement) or just prior to any claim. My personal opinion on reading the information available and after discussing it here and elsewhere is that if you make your music available in the USA, to the US market, then you would be wise to register your music with the US copyright office. I am not a lawyer, it is my personal opinion. I am sure your local songwriter's society will be able to advise you appropriately.

1) We have a lot of members in the USA 2) Almost all our members are affected by US regulation either here on Songstuff, or more likely on a site hosted in the USA. My interest in this topic is to get to the bottom of the topic, not to grind a personal axe as you seem to infer 3) For members based in other jurisdictions, resentment of the USA or it's domination of the business world does not change the legal ramifications of distributing music within the USA. If you believe David to be wrong then by all means debate the point, point to rulings, other discussions... your response does nothing to recommend your viewpoint whatsoever.

Hi and welcome to Songstuff Tuomas

Hey chad, welcome to Songstuff

Hi and welcome to Songstuff Bonnie

Hi and welcome to Songstuff

Thanks for that David. Nice and clear Pretty close to what my original understanding was in terms of standpoint, if not actual mechanism which I now understand much better. The UK case was always much easier to follow

Thanks David. So, if the lyrics or songs posted were offered as downloads of any sort that would be seen as a transfer of ownership of the copy and therefor it would be deemed publication. Money is not required to be transferred. Good to know. Then the same measure of publication would exist on Soundcloud, Reverbnation. Streamed audio would not constitute a transfer of ownership, and the work would therefor not be deemed as published, only if you offer a download.

Thanks MP. I think that doc is linked to from the copyright topic, if not I'll add it. It pretty well says what we have said above regarding the UK and the UK interpretation of publication.