Donna

I want a brick wall limiter! PS: Finn, I note what you said per taking out the bad. Thank goodness these things can be checked via listening on various speakers (and the following day) w/ a mix. Then re-evaluate. I will attempt to go easy in eq knob tweaking.

Ulp, I'm beginning to know what you're speaking of (brick limitor! tho I know not what it is exactly - think I get what it does!) Thanks for the primer on faders/gain/overloading. Funny, it seems a common problem I've seen perusing here and elsewhere is the mix being too low volume and/or distortion/overloading is there. One little hill atta time. (Do your drums really stay at those lower peakes?) For general interest re: my machine tascam 246 and it's eq section function, just received an almost definitive reply from a trusted friend (Loo). He's many years upscaled from a 4-track (that's why I say "almost" definitive), and I knew he could help this past month, but the man just became a father, dursn't bother him...yet y'all have been here to walk me through these things. Here is Loo's bit: "As I recall, the 'bottom' button ( ie tier) is the sweepable portion of the EQ knob (for example, picture a normal "Equalizer" with 30 adjustable > faders, 10 for bass, 10 for mid, and 10 for high). I'm pretty sure > the bottom half of the knob on the 246 machine (and my 244 machine) is > the same as adjusting faders, ie, all the way turned down would be > dropping the low end, and all the way up would be boosting the high > end, and everything in between (I hope this makes sense). The 'top' > half of the knob is the overall volume." And Prometheus, Loo then went on to pass onto me a mixing trick someone gave him long ago, and it was exactly how you explained to do it: sweep the frequency til one finds something BAD, then cut that. Loo ended his note: "In > other words, rather than trying to find 'good' EQ levels and boost > them, he'd search for 'nasty' EQ levels and drop them." I hope to be re-recording this week.

Good tips re: the s/t etc; Gentlemen, thank you for clarifying. Don't know if this'll be appreciated, but your answers beg more questions. For Prometheus, how do you decide where the gain should be in the first place? And, how would you compare the sound of the cut before and afterwards, by mixing down or ? Also, I've only been using headphones (we're working on speakers!) if that makes any difference. Btw, that first round of mixing "that I liked" re: the housewife success thread is STILL the best one and I've no idea how to duplicate it (tho I've been making records of knob placement since) For Finn...what kind of machine, another 4-track (that yoou mix the 4-tracks-onto-2-as initially)? I'm not understanding that, nor how the 2 tracks are then recorded back onto 2 tracks of the original 4-track. It does help hearing how you/your partner played on the tracks. I'll bet the results are good and I remember DAT! Wow, what happened to it?

Finn...but how did you put those 4 tracks onto another tape? That second tape'd have to be run at the 4-track's speed, right? And then how did you get the 2 tracks back onto the 4-track? _____________________________________________ Just so I understand....the scale Prometheus you used where you think of sub bass as 20-60 hz and so on, when you got to low mid it was in kz (from 200 hz to 1kz you think of low-mid range as). So the continuation of the hz goes up to kz, right? Is the kz the same as the "k" on my upper knob, think you (from 1-8...the sibilants' range roughly as you think of it)? OK, so on each knob there is one tier for gain and one for frequency. Do you mean by "sweep the center frequency", the gain stays put and you rotate the frequency around till that something bad jumps out, then make the cut (w/ the frquency tier)? PS! Hope you see this - just re-checked John's eq frequencies article and see my question of kz being continuation (as it were) of hz has been answered.

Prometheus, it helps again. I appreciate your time and attention and I think you shine when writing tomes. The panning examples are excellent like the earlier ones. The htz knob is identifiable by the number scale you used; the other numbers are written in "k" from 1 (8 o'clock) to 2.8 (noon) to 8. I'll just keep reading John's 2 articles and your replies till it makes sense. A good next major sort of goal would be the sequencing Finn and you speak of. btw Finn, I know these planning things...some of the time away from music I learned to sew and boy it became just like doing songs...funny how one field can keep a person somewhat connected to a different one. Got an adapter for the effects unit! We'll see if it actually works aside from lighting the LED light.

TOM!!!!!!!!!!!! It is exciting and wonderful Plus the best motive for doing it; that you're honored and glad to be working with this team.

PS: Mixing tonight (before I read any replies here) I did drums panned to between 10-11 o'clock and guitar between 1-2. The forth mix experimentation, I panned the lead vocal to about 1 o'clock, never tried that before, cause I's looking for space! Who really knows tonight how it sounds via the phones? Nothing's a problem w/ unison vocals panned above like drums/guitar, plenty space there and I'm content. I'll listen tomorrow on speakers...wonder if I'll get my effects running for this MP3-to-be, and if I'll be content w/ the sound copied from analog to digital?

Prometheus, thank you so much! It is extremely helpful, what you wrote, and I shall save it. And try some, tomorrow; I'm guessing what I bootsted was really lower than mid, but whatever. I did vocals and mixed tonight. I love the around 10 o'clock/2 o'clock panning but find there's nowhere else to go if I start out that way (vox). It's quite difficult to hear the subtleties of eq (and sometimess pan) on my cheap phones (and ears). Quite understandable when you speak of "hole in the middle", warming all the instuments/what that badly does, and so forth. Where to now? OK John, I've seen the first article more than once (the 2nd is maybe a variation of what Prometheus suggested to download & looks very helpful)...but I'm afraid I have to back way up here becausse I have never figured out anything technical w/ the board, just go by intuition I hope you guys will tell me what's what! First: for each track on my board there is a section "eq" w/vertically spaced pair of knobs - which sit on top of one another - two tiers. There is a label also vertically spaced which reads "gain o frequency." Is the frequency then the top tier of the knob do you think? The fact that there are 2 eq knobs for each track, does that mean it's 2 band? Second: The numbers around these knobs...this is confusing, cause there is a different set on both top and the 2nd knob beneath it. Also I don't know which numbers correspond to the upper or lower tier of each knob. a) I can see how to get something between 1-8 k (if the top knob's labeled w/ these numbers, 2.8 is 12 o'clock), but what is this scale on bottom knob - 62 at 8 o'clock, 300 at noon, 1.5 () at 4 o'clock. How can one go UP from 300 to 1.5! Now are these numbers htz or db or ? the meters (negative 20 black to + 3 red) are THEM db's, Precious? I feel like a scandal - o well. And so...how does one boost...just turn the "k" to a higher "k"? But how does one boost or cut them bottom tiers of these doubled-stacked knobs, when it goes from 300 "up" to 1.5? I did ask someone else this, and since he didn't explain direction of knob turning for boosting/cutting, I figured turn it clockwise to increase and vice versa. This is the 246 tascam portastudio I have; but I think I'm beyond manuals, even if I had one. gracious thanks.

Hey all, one main difference I hear between 4 track mixing and bigger units is a sense of remoteness. It's like the pro mixes have space in them. If you don't know what I mean, it's the difference between cheaper film, when the movie or whatever seems "present" and film-type film where there's a remoteness. Now I am not using FX at all right now, but I think it's more than that. I've a buddy who can get quite a big sound spatially via a 4 track. Is that because he mixed the bounce onto stereo tracks? Experimented recently mixing in mono and little eq as possible. The mix sounded great last night. Today it sounded quite bad. The best mix of the one I'm working on is where I just got it how it sounded best - more eq, louder levels overall and the mid range boosted (at the expense of drum hum).

Hey John, welcome to Songstuff and back to writing/recording. Excited and astonished!... thought it might take 2 years rather than 2 days to get a decently-timed drum track. Had littleidea what shape I'd be in after all this itime. My goal is to have a first MP3 in time for the Chritstmas song contest here (thanks to Steve who'll give me hosting space). I'll check out your stuff when I am able, thanks for the link (and yes, Songstuff artist's pages only post links to songs). Nigel, I appreciate your comments; cannot recommend the above stress session, but it's good to know one can do it if they must. I've now finished writing it! (95% sure) I want to record it once more - we'll see if I have time. Plus, I liked that 2nd guitar part, but if I do THAT, it'll mean bouncing (ulp), now that the drums must stay. How much can a girl be expected to do this time o' year?

This is a happy report: It can be done, getting back into writing/playing/recoring after years long absence. The 45-version of my little suite is nearly finished being written. I'd been playing the new mixes (2 guitar/2 vox) for Husband about every other day the past 2 weeks as I re-wrote and re-recorded - which we've never done before! Songstuff conversing made it seem natural to let the cat out during the writing process. I wanted his non-musician opinion: did the suite still sound like 2 1/2 songs, or was it old Bowie thing where you had to listen more than once to really get it? Yet I stand by my own judgement foremost. 2 days ago I decided to record it with drums. (Prometheus you'll love this). I think of the song in my head and "play to the air". The timing was rotten and I scrapped it. Next day I did it again w/ 80% improvement, thus good enough to lay the rest down. I had noted that the little valance hanging over the window would keep a mic from banging against the glass, so I looped the cord up over the curtain rod and hoped for the best. Fighting the clock as the five school aged children'd soon be home, I got drums, guitar and one vocal on in a 1/2 hour. They returned home (demanding hot chocolate) just as I was beginning that last vocal. "You just sit in here, quietly, while I do this LAST VOCAL," I chirpped while simultaneously shooing them out physically by leaping along behind them. The 5 yr old began to protest and I said, "SHH! THE RED LIGHT IS ON - BYE!!!" I mixed down between homework-checking and pot roast simmering; and re-checked the mix via boom box and car speakers before the kiddie's bedtime. I liked what I heard. The drums made a huge difference. The man is starting to get it; I've played the mix for 3 ppl since. Next night we went grocery shopping and I grabbed my midi-verb..."say, let's see if I can get an adapter for this thing", and he wanted to know what the effects would do so I told him. They don't yet have the adapter but I had that feeling I was supposed to go in there - sure enough, met 2 gear heads (and picked their little brains for as long as domestic harmony would allow.) I had so much fun, it was like being online. And, I figured out (preliminarily in a 90 second experiment) how to bounce the tracks. It was not what I rembered doing previously, so I don't yet know if it'll work. Haven't recorded drums/vox/guitar as a "band" for ten years, maybe longer. The encouragement from this board has made all the difference. It is a very great relief to my mind (between headches ATom) to be wrapping my mind around all this again.

Delightful read, gentlemen. To answer the question of John's! It was almost a year ago. Couldn't even fathom all the gear. The producer/engineer a Juliard graduate, nice man, let me do my thing. It wasn't my stuff (never been in a pro studio for my own songs - I consider it fortunate I've been to as many as I have). About the click...I could get by without it when I'm up and playing regularly (I'm talking drums mostly, and recording at home). I love not needing it and it's SOLELY due to not having time to devote to the instrument that >I< need it. (Also loved practicing w/ the metronome.) But I would discuss using it or not with the engineer if there was an issue (and probably would find this out before the session occurred). I used to do demo's of mine w/ my good buddy Mike. We would discuss things beforehand; and we got down to business musically right away because of it.

So help me Hannah (as Mom would say). Hold that PM, Prometheus. Doh, all my profile and info is there intact. Man, I do computers like a girl.

PS! Great, I see the addy now (2 posts ago). You're a trooper (I can't wait to post my little demo's - LOVE wrong notes (mine), love all that stuff). I'll ask the Husband-that-be if our storage is ample.

Ah Precioussss, he records himself! Prometheus, how fair is that? You get to hear my novice mixes (when I get MP3'd, that is). No, you couldn't have PM'd me back then, our computer bit the dust (it's actually in the ICU, bummer, but W-A-S [Winamp-anathema-sit] has been requiemed, of which I shall not soon tire of saying!) Now I've forgotten HOW to hear these tracks of yours? I only have regular e-mail...AND I have no other files nor addresses since Bessie blew her top. You should send me a PM with your info...if you'd rather we hear your real stuff wiff other bands, maybe at some point clients would let you have some kind of access-link? It would be a portfolio for you and (you could argue if need be) exposure for them. Doh Bart! The 1988 Act...isn't there some way to work it out?

Agreed!~ Prometheus, do you have links to mixes you've done? Now that Winamp- anathema-sit is no longer an issue, we're able to hear stuff! I'd like to listen to some of your mixing.

Well explained. What's the difference between practicing singing using regular performanace vs full voice? Do ppl tend to practice using full voice?

got it, thx.

This is true, RD, that one can learn. As far as tone deafness, I don't know what that is like, but HH imo is right on the money. I have many challenges singing flat or sharp...it's just something to iron out, it can be done. At one time, no one would let me sing lead. What I did that helped: I taped myself singing, listened to it, and tried it again, then listened to that. Repeat til ya start hearing what it's supposed to be. Many times I gave up in disgust. But always went back to it the next day/week. And started getting results. Painful esp. at first, but it worked. Also, took 2 semesters of voice...after that it's like I became an ok singer almost overnight.

Good thread. I became lead. It just sort of happened overnight, odd. It's very important to me to be able to do either. I love being a vocal support, but difficlut to do this well while playing an instrument. Tho I'm sure John would say aw, ya just need to get yer feet wet again Don't think being lead in my case has anything to do with fronting (lol!), just like playing any other instrument would. The whole fronting thing...mostly sang lead as a drummer (long ago). Sometimes felt comfortable being frontman, but it's hard to judge now, 'cause that was doing other people's material. I am ambivalent about the whole notion of fronting. (And another Yes fan here! Tho I know/prefer pre "Going For The One" Yes...we used to giggle at Steve Howe's harmony at one place during All Good People (the live version), good memories. Atom, have you ever heard "To Be Over?" It's sublime! After hearing that I fell in love with lower-than-the-lead harmonies and have never been the same since.)

I think Finn's routine IS formal, John!

Hey Finn, thanks for the happy ending, that's encouraging. When I quit for a few years I lost my bottom register. Now that I've been smoking again for a long time, I'm losing my upper register. But I can't say that in either instance above is just from cigs, for I've also lost bottom and/or higher register when I used to gig full time (no cigs or ANYTHING. It seems my voice was most fragile when I was being a good girl!) How much from singing all night (lead and harmony), screaming at times (for effect), and trying to cover parts out of range (because no one else would try)... But these family-years, I've been sleep deprived a long time. And I think fatigue is maybe the worst of all for the voice. I heard an old Madonna tune the other day and noted how much her voice has deepened over the years. But I don't think in her case this was due to smoking.

Sometimes a better blend is obtained by not singing harmony in full voice...sometimes it sounds better to be weaker (not just volume wise)or more breathy (esp if the harmony notes are in higher range). imo.

Listen (and watch) the lead singer. If the lead is singing "die-yan" for the word "dying", don't sing "die-ING".

Finn, can you explain what you mean by muting/unmuting tracks and what-not? Are you talking about recording a melody w/ voice, then adding a harmony (16 times, or 16 different harmonies)?