Lyrics And Song Writing

[Daedalus]

So here's my problem,

I'm going through this huge phase right now(one of those teenager things...you knoww) and I have ALOT on my mind right now, and I really think I could turn this into a great song. The only problem is..there just seems to be so much that I just can't write it down. I have a really bad problem with writing lyrics. I've written and created a few songs on guitar but there are only about 2 where I personally think the lyrics are good enough to my standards. I enjoy lyrics with metaphors, and lines that you have to think about. Deep songs. I'm not big on the straight-forward songs that tell you EXACTLY what is happening, but that seems to be the only writing technique I'm good at, probably because it's easiest. I like to challenge myself, and I also like to be satisfied with my music. So is there any pointers, or tips, or anyway you guys can help me get my mind on paper, because I feel the only way I am going to get through this is if I write a song about it.

Thanks,

Daedalus

[Boff]

Write a lot and you'll get better! Read some articles here on songstuff and on other sites to give you some useful tools in your writing, what to think about etc.

And try to not be so hard on yourself, I really know that part well. I'm having a hard time being happy with anything I've made. You should show your lyrics to some friends and stuff, they're usually nice

[john]

Hey

What Boff said.

I'd add these suggestions:

What message do you want to give the listener? Condense it to the bare essentials

What is the story you will convey the message with?

Think on a title related to your message

To get the feel of the lyric, FEEL the emotion of story and message

write down what you want to say as prose

now try writing down individual lines and sayings that relate to your topic and the emotions as you go through the story

decide on the rhyme scheme and stick to it

Cheers

John

[Daedalus]

Well how I write songs currently is that, I'll start playing some chords or riffs on my guitar and from there I will start making up words that kind of go along with whats in my head. I'll just build from there. Usually I get the chorus after a few tries but I really have trouble creating the verses. Plus, with this method it's hard for me to make "deeper" lyrics becuase I kind of don't have time to think about what I am actually saying. That's why I would love to actually sit at my desk and just write what is on my head, but it just doesn't seem to work like that, because I have no melody, and it has no emotion to it.

[Boff]

Yea, writing good lyrics just by improvising is really hard, you need to try to write with emotion even when you're just writing.

[Rudi]

It is perfectly possible to convey emotion with words only. Sometimes its worth trying to write without music. You can either have a rhyming scheme in mind or not; though if not it can be a challenge to edit into the music later.

[cobalt21]

well I dont write songs but I can give you my 2 cents

Personally I think "deep" songs are overated. I would almost venture to say that they are easier to write.

I hope I dont offend anyone, I dont mean to , its just my theory and there are of course many exceptions. I think lyrics intended to be deep and profound can often be a cop out or an attempt to illustrate intellectual superiority. It leaves it up to the listener to determine what the writers story is and paint the picture and therefore the listener becomes the creative genius, not the writer.

It wouldnt surprise me if some "deep" songs really have no intended meaning at all and the audience can come up with there own meaning as it relates to them. I suppose it works but not a real connection IMHO

On the other hand, if there is clarity, it must be interesting or somehow connect with the listeners emotion on its own. I think to do that well is more of a challenge. Share thoughts from the heart or connect and relate to my experiences with good music and your song will be a favorite

Its like a comedian getting on stage and leaving out all the punch lines. How funny is it if we make up our own. Not a perfect analogy but you get my meaning.

Again, very few will likely share my opinion but just wanted to share

Edited November 25, 2008 by cobalt21

[Boff]

It wouldnt surprise me if some "deep" songs really have no intended meaning at all and the audience can come up with there own meaning as it relates to them.

Heh, I just heard a fun story about a famous swedish band called Kent. They have a song where they sing something like "my eyes hurt" and stuff like that. The person who told me this had always thought that it was a way of saying that he couldn't stand the world and it's chaos, his eyes were hurting from seeing all the violence (or anything bad). 10 years later she went to their concert, and the singer says "This song is called My eyes hurt, and I wrote this after I forgot to take out my lenses before I went to sleep". The song had a deep meaning to her, but to the writer it was just non-sense

[Nightwolf]

Great story Boff

the listener becomes the creative genius, not the writer.

I call that active participation...

IMHO intended intellectual superiority stands out like a sore thumb as does intentional vagueness.

it is (once again JMHO) a thin line to write with meaning, but still hard to parse.

I searched for "My eyes hurt" but could not find it, but I suspect that the writer used the feeling as a jumping off point for the lyric, not as the entire meaning behind it. I could bee wrong..

I love active listening, when I have to work for the meaning, it means much more to me than if it is spoonfed.

[cobalt21]

"my eyes hurt" thats quite funny. I bet there are many examples of song that generally are misunderstood.

You know, I must make an admission since we are on the topic. I must be a very LAZY listener. It has occured to me that even some of my favorite all time songs, new and old, that I have listened to hundreds of times, I have no idea what the lyrics are. Maybe parts here and there, like a line from the chorus. I dont even really know what the songs are about.

So nightwolf, in a way your right in those cases for me because these songs evoke an emotion obviously in me but it is the "sound" of the lyrics with the music .They do have meaning but likely only for me and based on a few segments of all the words.

Geez, I hope I am not the only one that doesnt always pay attention to lyrics.

One thing about my older favorites is that ,once again , it is not the lyrics that keep me listening it is a connection to a personal memory.

there are songs that if I hear them I can smell the perfume of my first crush in high school. Music seems to connect me to positive memories of my past in a much more real way than a photo or story.

This being true, If I hear a new song or portion of a song that reminds me of another song, that can also trigger those positive feelings and memories. Its kinda cool really.....or crazy

[Boff]

I searched for "My eyes hurt" but could not find it, but I suspect that the writer used the feeling as a jumping off point for the lyric, not as the entire meaning behind it. I could bee wrong..

It's written in swedish, that's probably why you can't find anything

[Lazz]

... for me .... it is the "sound" of the lyrics with the music ....

Geez, I hope I am not the only one that doesnt always pay attention to lyrics.

You are not alone.

For me too, it's the 'sound' which captures me and draws me in. Eventually - lyrics, and maybe some sideways sense of their meaning, will beging to percolate through. But I am listening to the sound first and foremost. What makes a song lasting and memorable is melody. The words had just better not let it down is all.

I always figured everyone else was the same, heard music the same way really.

And I try to write with that in mind.

[Nightwolf]

I totally agree, the sound comes first, that's what creates the vibe and the hook. Even spoken word has to have a cadence to work.

Hell, I sing along to Songs without knowing the Lyrics, but that in turn embarrasses me into learning them and if they don't hold water at that point I can sour on the whole thing.

As far as I can tell 90% of Judas Priest Lyrics make no sense at all, he even makes up words, but they fit,... and they fit so well in fact that even as hardnosed as I am, the Music (vocal line included) is too good to turn my back on

Food for thought

[Donna]

Hey D,

What everyone said.

BUT-

If you mean multiple meanings/layers, I'm not much help. However, if you mean depth as in more interesting, poetic,

original, artistic then my 2 cents is you could fiddle w/ the words in this way...instead of "when you did this, it made me think of" maybe write "your soul

tumbled out and that pain colored my day".

Maybe concentrate on the verbs. It'd be a place to start any way.

Not like you need a thesaurus either. John said FEEL, so if "pain" makes you think/feel "searing" or "red" or "black bottomed

dung heap", or "ice hot" or "eternal ache" bringing that stuff in lyrically may be satisfying for you.

I think you should try to follow your lights in this attraction to deeper meaning'd lyrics - if it doesn't work for you, no harm done.

Edited December 2, 2008 by Donna

[Rudi]

Interesting stuff.

On listening to the Beatles "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds", John Fred (John Fred & the Playboys) mistook the line 'Lucy in the Sky..' for 'Lucy in diguise', and was most disapointed when he discovered the true lyric. He thought it sounded far more interesting as 'Lucy in disguise'.

Inspired by his own mis-understanding, John Fred and Andrew Bernard co-wrote "Judy in Disguise", a successful chart hit of the 60's.

I think it may have been Miles Davis who said that the audience 'had to work as hard as the musicians' (true for much of non commercial music) to get anything out of it.

or was it Daniel O'Donnell?

[DaveyDead]

i don't know if anyone said this yet, but besides the point of writing more, i think you have to be able to appreciate what you create and not reject everything that does not sound like a particular style, you don't want to be like everyone else, point is, appreciate what you can do too.