When Writing Your Songs, Do You Write The Drum Beat/loop First?

[thesound]

I guess this is for the more computer based musicians.

I have been struggling to write the drums after recording a bass line or two and I was wondering if the drums first would be a better apporach. I am worried that they might take control of the song too much if I start with them. I guess control offers a direction though.

How about you?

[Edward]

I use Digital Performer. I always start a song with a midi drum loop. I've got to have that so I can lock the bass guitar with the drums (kick). Because I basically work by myself, I use the midi drums and program them with my controller keyboard - after I do guitars and bass and vocals. - but I always start with that loop. One of the good things is that you can quantise the drums but you can also humanize them to lessen the "machine like" quality. I do the drums one piece at a time - kick and snare, hats, etc.

You can decide at mix time where you want the drums in the mix. The neat thing about midi is that you can change the drums to a virtual instrument drum sound later or change kits at mix time if you want. You can combine sounds from different midi kits. It's fun to layer a second snare sound to the chorus from a different midi unit or add a tom sound to the snare, anything.

I can't imagine not having the drums loop to keep me on the beat and in the groove right from the beginning. But you can decide to have the drums come into the mix at any time or not at all. Yes, most midi kits are highly processed but that is okay with me. I have BFD drums which I don't use much but they sound less processed.

I have to say that I've been told by my friends that my songs would sound "better" if I used real drums. But I'd have to hire someone and that is not an option. When I listen to the radio, most drums sound processed like they are midi drums anyway. I am also really picky about timing and I am not in a location that has drummers that could perhaps give me what I'd be looking for. I've chosen to just work this way - not that it is the only way or even the best way. I've also chosen to use what I have and not keep buying and buying.

Edward

[auralscapes]

They do this in order to make the drums sit bettter in the mix or if the drummer had a particularly bad floor tom (old skin) or whatever.

I've had to do exactly that... There's a drum replacement program called Drumagog that is pretty good for it. Even in the Demo version, it gives you a decent kick drum sound.

[Edward]

Hi Edward

One of the reasons the drums on records sound like tehy are midi drums is that the real drummers work is often replaced by drum triggering and replacement software - so it maintains the human feel but the sound itself is actually a sampled kit. They do this in order to make the drums sit bettter in the mix or if the drummer had a particularly bad floor tom (old skin) or whatever.

I've read about that. Makes sense and explains why some drums sound very processed even when actually "played". It is much easier to play the drums with a group than it is to play to a loop after the song has been recorded - a whole different skill. I play drums a bit as well but playing to a "click" or a loop is a whole other thing. I had a set of V-drums once as well but ended up just owning the module for sounds.

Edward

[auralscapes]

I create drum parts using Superior Drummer or Artist Drums. After I have the basic idea down it goes off to a guy called Marc Norgaard in Baltimore who adds his twist to it. I am always surprised to see how he interprets the tracks - he always comes up with something original to add to the track. A very creative guy. Used to play drums many moons ago. My Keith Moon period! Watch the second half of this clip (or even the whole thing) - this is a real drummer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbWFIS6ma_k

[john]

using midi triggers on a real kit is also often used because it means a cheaper recording session. Far less studio time is required to get a good sound and there is no real issue with drum separation / spill and for more budget studios, the need for expensive microphones. Of course this requires the drummer to get over the fact that their personal kit wont be recorded. This can often lead to days of sulking and a sad look every time the recording is played back! lol

[LemonCrush]

I usually write the basic chord progression first, then the drums, and then melodies and textures last. Every now and then though, I'll do some drums and come up with something cool just based off of the drum track.