How Do You Identify Song Genre?

[Retrosaurus Rex]

The question came up in another thread... how do you identify the genre of a song? Do you feel like a lyric standing alone can fit into an identifiable genre? What are the factors or characteristics, whether musical or lyrical, that mark a song as belonging to a certain genre?

[justsoulin]

It can be the vocalist along with the beat/harmony. For the generalisation of a genre, certain characteristics tend to stick out. C&W is easy to hear for example.

But when it comes to writing lyrics with no specific genre, it's interesting how people hear through reading a certain genre.

[quadrant5]

had me a beer

I lol'd a little bit.

To me, genre is defined by the music. Let's use religious again. It really isn't it's own genre, it creates sub-categories in other genres (christian rock for example which has a rock sound to it) because people don't want it played on mainstream pop/ rock stations because they (mainstream pop-tards) hate god.

If we look back at country, we can use Taylor Swift as an example of how lyrics mean nothing (as to genre). She has songs on country and pop radio. How surprised was I to hear "Love Story" on the local rock/ pop station. What was the differnce? The music, it had more of a synthetic sound to it as opposed to the country version which sounds more like real instrumentation.

Now I wanna make my own examples:

My all time favorite band, Green Day. Are they punk or not? For the most part, their (Insomniac era) music can be described as stripped down. It was considered punk. 21st Century breakdown is more, well, sophisticated (for lack of a better term) and is therefore considered to be pop-punk. Punk is considered to have stripped down instrumentation and political themed lyrics. Insomniac isn't really political, where 21st Century Breakdown was. What does this say? Meu-zac auw duh wae beh-beh *cringes*

Saying that lyrics hold no merit towards genre is extreme, and I'll try and correct myself with this thought. Lyrics can have a certain feel when presented on their own. "Fall To Pieces" by Avril Lavigne, for example. These lyrics, to me, could be taken the pop route which she took or it could be a country like song similar to something Taylor Swift may do.

This is just my opinion which I myself don't take seriously.

[Ray888]

I don't have any definite answers to this question, although people do seem to have a need to fit things into a box or genre as the case may be. My own belief is that within the creative process, if I try to fit something into a specific category, it can restrict that creative process. If I look back to as early as the 50s, which I am old enough to do, there were few genres. Today, I can't count them all. I recently wrote some lyrics believing that they were soft rock, and when the track came back from the composer, it surprised me enormously that the tempo was half what I expected, and I found myself listening to a jazzy ballad. Just goes to show you, what do I know????

[gradual]

I think the question to ask yourself, before "how", is "do you really need to?".

If you are looking to pitch your songs to recording artists or get placement in TV or film, then genre identification is often necessary. I've never attempted this personally, but I know there are usually very specific guidelines that must be followed in order to secure a cut on an album or a placement in a commercial. Others have already provided some helpful insight in this thread on identifying genre elements, so I won't get into that.

But if you're writing songs for yourself, I'm not sure if it's a useful thing to concern yourself with, because then you're thinking of music in terms of what boxes they fit into, and that's kind of limiting. I think it's better not to worry about genre, and just develop your own style, incorporating whatever elements you like, and disregarding the rest.

[justsoulin]

In some cases I agree Gradual, you have to build your style, your ability etc. But when it comes to collaborating say, perhaps the composer has written a C&W piece for you to write the lyrics. Then you need to understand the genre to get a feel for it. Of course you could always write a song called we will rock you to the C&W music but it wouldn't follows Queens rock song.

I feel once you've got to a level where you are comfortable, you need to get out of your comfort zone and begin over by testing yourself to write something you wouldn't, whether in style or genre.

I've found doing this the last few years has helped me a lot. As well as actually learning more about music.

[gradual]

In some cases I agree Gradual, you have to build your style, your ability etc. But when it comes to collaborating say, perhaps the composer has written a C&W piece for you to write the lyrics. Then you need to understand the genre to get a feel for it. Of course you could always write a song called we will rock you to the C&W music but it wouldn't follows Queens rock song.

I feel once you've got to a level where you are comfortable, you need to get out of your comfort zone and begin over by testing yourself to write something you wouldn't, whether in style or genre.

I've found doing this the last few years has helped me a lot. As well as actually learning more about music.

I agree about stretching yourself in terms of style. Such as if you’re more of an abstract lyricist, it can be helpful to write something a little more simple and direct, and vice versa. And as I explained, yes, in some situations, having a good grasp of genre is necessary, such as in writing music for commercials, or trying to pitch a song to a recording artist, for instance.

But if somebody thinks, “I have to write ‘country’ lyrics to this music”, then the tendency might be to resort to cliches, “my baby left me, tears in my beer”, etc., because they have the notion that’s what a country song is supposed to sound like. Really, these days, there isn’t much difference between modern country and pop/rock except for a little fiddle/steel guitar in the mix, but unlike other genres, lyrics are much more direct, and there is a greater attention to detail. It takes a good level of skill to be able to write that way, because there is less you can get away with.

But it isn’t like that’s a skill that can only be applied to country music. If you can write a good country song, you can probably write a good pop song, rock, R&B, etc. My objection is to the notion that one should be thinking in terms of “country” lyrics, or a country melody. How about “good” lyrics and melody? If a song is good, it should work in many genres.

[justsoulin]

My objection is to the notion that one should be thinking in terms of “country” lyrics, or a country melody. How about “good” lyrics and melody? If a song is good, it should work in many genres.

With you there 100%

[john]

There are some song forms where the song form itself makes it very difficult for songs to transfer either into or out of the genre. For some song the differences between song forms can easily be reolved during the arrangement process, but not all. For example, you have a 12 bar blues form song, songs written in that genre only transfer well to related genres (generally).

On the whole I do agree that there are good melodies and poor melodies, good arrangements and poor arrangements etc.

Much depends on the purpose however. For example, a heavy metal writer writes lyrics etc that really do work within that genre, but in most other genres the words themselves are likely to be completely out of place. In essence I like to write songs that can be interpreted for many genres, where as some writers are very focused on writing songs for a very tight genre definition, and the more elements that are genre specific that they build into the song structure, melody, lyrics, the less portable the song becomes.

Much also depends on fans. For example, if you port a broad appeal song into a very tightly defined genre the fans are likely to be less willing to accept it as it doesn't have sufficient trademarks of their genre. Yet again it comes down to why the writer writes.

"Good" can be a matter of perspective, a matter of purpose.

I know why I write, what I hope to achieve etc. I also know that only some writers would share those with me. If I was a genre specific writer, knowing those boundaries can be very important. As long as they accept the implications of their decision, who am I to say they are wrong. Yes I point out what i see are implications, and perhaps suggest ways they can make their song more portable, but ultimately it is their decision to do that or not.

To answer the original question, unfortunately much depends on the target genre as to what defines it. Even more so for sub genres. Sometimes it is defined by chord, rhythm, melody, tempo etc and usually a collection of all those. Some genres are very open to outside influences, some not.... so the answer is, how long is a piece of string?

Much better to ask about specific genres. You can then work out what are song writing specific elements and what are arrangement specific etc.

I hope that helps.

[Roflcopter]

My theory is that if you cannot easily identify it as music, it's probably some new genre..

Seriously tho - it's an interesting question, but with fairly changeable results/answers over longer periods of time.

Stuff gets reclassified, too. Rock becomes 'classic/early rock' etc or simply nailed to a decade - a 'very distinct sixties sound' (without further explanation).

I think as some have tried to point out earlier, people trying to write strictly with a distinct style in mind, want to play it safe/have commercial interests in mind above musical ones.

[AlistairS]

I suspect that the whole concept of genres was dreamed up as a means of excluding music someone doesn't want to hear!

What is "Americana"? Is it country music without the right wing, religious, drinking cliches? How is it different from folk? Wait, isn't bluegrass folk music?

"I don't like Jazz" -- "OK, listen to this" -- "Oh, I like THAT .. it's that other jazz I don't like!".

Same with rap, prog rock.. whatever.

Is it highly polished, with real instruments and a well-trained vocalist singing so we can hear what the words are? Let's call it "easy listening"!

There are certainly musical styles - reggae, samba, rock, etc.. that often describe the beats and rhythms. However, these can cross "genres".

If you are promoting work, it can be whatever genre the audience wants!

[MABBO]

Hello,

My name is Marc-Alan Barnette or "MAB." I live and work in Nashville, Tn. as a full time singer/songwriter and music consultant. I work with writers and artists from around the world who come to Nashville and also seminars around the country and Canada. I am glad to be here and hope I can provide a little perspective. Feel free to ask questions if you need to.

The question of "Genre" is one we deal with a lot. There is a lot of cross generations as have been spoken above but I can give you an idea of how Nashville publishers view it.

Most country songs have three main characteristics:

#1. Reality Based.

#2. Conversational in tone.

#3. Memorable musical hook that repeats throughout the song.

Most of the music is kept fairly simple and around a three-four chord pattern (with some passing chords or inversions) and allowing the story to take precidence over the song. The language is usually as if two people are having a conversation and written around a reality based situation. When there are cliche's or metaphors involved (which often there are too many, I do agree) the majority are "grounded in reality." For instance, " I went Sky Diving, Rocky Mountain Climbing, did two point seven seconds on a bull named Fu Manchu" in Tim McGraw's "Live Like You Were Dying" give "elbow moments" or reality based lyrics that most people can see immediately in their mind's eye.

Most often there is a "twist on the tale" to the story, or in more somber subjects a "rope of hope" which gives the listener some encouragement. Most of the songs on the charts are mid or up tempo ,with power ballads, such as Rascal Flatts, or Keith Urban having about one out of every 12-13 songs.

While again there are always exceptions, these are the most normal characteristics on country. Instrumentation is usually kept with more acoustic instruments driving the song. But with today's current styles there is a lot of cross generation and "country" can actually embody everything from the country pop of Rascal Flatts, the traditional of Brad Paisly and Alison Kraus, teen pop of Taylor Swift, Country Rock of Jason Aldeen, Buffet style of Zac Brown and Kenny Chesney, sweeping vocals of Martina McBride, or about any derivation you can imagine. What was "country years ago" has changed radically as it has in all genres.

The ultimate determiner of "country" would be the artists that do it, the publishers that work it, the record labels that promote it, the press that review it and in the final step, the public who hopefully purchases it.

This is my opinion based upon my 24 years in the town.

Hope it helps in your journey.

MAB

[Sakura]

To me, I guess I think of the themes as being one of the main ways to classify a genre.

Like if it's a topic that's widely known/used in a specific genre than it could be easily classified in that one. That being said, I know that a lot of topics are used in multiple genres, but specific scenarios can apply to a certain category. (like Taylor Swift's songs)

Just a thought; I don't really know much about classifying genres, but I thought I might just throw this out here.

[Retrosaurus Rex]

Like I said in the first post, the question came up, and I thought it would be good to get a variety of thoughts on the subject. I realize a lot of newcomers are a little baffled about genre distinctions. OTOH, people who are somewhat experienced (as I flatter myself to be), have kind of reached the point of "I know it when I hear it", but find that it is difficult to pin down in word, after all. I wasn't expecting someone of Marc-Alan Barnette's caliber to weigh in (noooobody expects...), but obviously someone who deals with the question professionally on a regular basis is going to have some very specific thoughts...

The ultimate determiner of "country" would be the artists that do it, the publishers that work it, the record labels that promote it, the press that review it and in the final step, the public who hopefully purchases it.

Probably a safe bet that applies to rock, pop, R&B, Hip-hop, & Metal, as well. There are certainly communities devoted to all these genres, their sub-genres, and other obscure genres that are not mentioned, and each of these devotees has specific ideas about what's "in" or "out".

Speaking of that, in the country game, you have songwriters who tailor their songs, not just to a specific genre, but to a specific artist. It's just what's required to have a chance of breaking thru. Is there anybody who approaches their writing with this level of specificity? Or are most of you writing mainly for yourself?

To me, I guess I think of the themes as being one of the main ways to classify a genre.

Like if it's a topic that's widely known/used in a specific genre than it could be easily classified in that one. That being said, I know that a lot of topics are used in multiple genres, but specific scenarios can apply to a certain category. (like Taylor Swift's songs)

Just a thought; I don't really know much about classifying genres, but I thought I might just throw this out here.

It's a good observation that certain styles favor certain themes, but there's so much cross-over that it would be hard to define genre based on the theme alone. To give an extreme example, if Taylor Swift wrote and performed a song bragging about her cars & bling, or a song about Viking hordes, and other than the subject matter the performance was completely in her own style, it's a safe bet that the result would be identifiably "country", not "hip-hop" or "Swedish metal", but also safe to say her regular fans would be confused and put-off, or at best take it as a humorous novelty. But yeah, theme could definitely be an element of genre...