Song Contests

[rainsrocks]

Hi there,

 

I have a question for anyone that might be interested, especially songwriters.  I have entered songwriting contests in the past and never won one.  That's beside the point.  The question is this; Do you think a songwriting contest in which the entrants only submit recordings that are limited to vocal and one instrument (piano, guitar etc..)  would be a refreshing alternative to the contests that are currently available?

 

My thinking is that, although most contests claim to only judge based on lyric content, melody, song structure etc...  that most winners for one reason or another seem to have both production and performance ability on their side (I've been listening to winners of major contests like "the international songwriting competition" and "the John Lennon songwriting competition").  Would a contest that limited the format of the entries appeal to you as a songwriter?  Do you see a reason to make that stipulation?  Would you enter that contest even if it meant rerecording your song with a simple arrangement?

 

Any thoughts are welcome

[john]

Tom makes some good points.

The customers are the songwriters. The panel are paid and sadly just as invested and biased as any other part of the music industry.

While the entrants might like to believe it is about the song, really for most entrants it is a promotion opportunity, a chance for someone who might have once done something to maybe hear their work and like it (really? Pullease) how sad is that? I'd be pretty surprised if most ever get listened to.

The contests are generally in it for money (except free contests, like ours, but they serve the writer, the artist and the site and we are upfront about that, and they are listener's poll not panel based). Band, writer and site / contest are in it for the promo and the hyped delusion that it really means something to anyone outside the contest. Truth is they don't much.

Our contests are more about the knowledge and insight the writer gains from the voting profile. They are not big enough to really be about the promo... But...

All contests do have a vanity aspect. The delusion with the paid contest is that it's not really a vanity project (they are) and that the writers really gain from it (99.9999% really don't in large paid contests)

the winner gains a set of prizes donated to the contest by the gear manufacturers as prizes in return for getting their name all over it. Songstuff used to help get word out there for a couple of the more reputable contests, hell we even discussed doing our contests, with big prizes donated by big software and hardware manufacturers. We looked at the structure of such contests and decided NOT to do it. The standard contest was merely a marketing machine where the contestants were PAYING to be marketed to. What a con.

For example:

The site running the contest gets paid by the entrants

They get the prizes from the gear makers for free

They get paid by advertisers

They get free advertising on music websites in return for promoting those sites in a pretty one sided deal

They get promoted in newsletters in exchange for the same

In return they pay a panel to listen to some recordings.... Lets do some maths....

The average pop hit lasts 3 minutes or more. Many songs last closer to 5 minutes. Split the difference at 4 which is being generous to the contests.

So for 10,000 entered songs that's 40,000 minutes of music for the panel to listen and evaluate. That's 667 hours approximately, or 85 days of music listening at 8 hours per day, that's 17 working weeks. For names that just isn't going to happen. Not if they still have any form of personal music career.

Instead it gets passed to pretty well anyone to listen to to whittle it down to a short list, listening often to 30 seconds or less until they get down to 100 or so. Those then might get a longer listen before a final short list of 10 to 20 get passed to the named panel. I've seen very busy artists named on those panels. For example Lynyrd Skynyrd band members. Have you seen their tour dates? Lmao. Of course they only hear a short list!

Meanwhile the contest runs for months and months. That is months for the companies to market at the songwriters, sometimes upwards of 6 months. Sometimes the marketing also involves affiliate links so that even when a songwriter buys one of those products the contest site gets paid for that too.

Fees range from $10 to $45 per entry. At a conservative entry of 10,000 for these larger contests that's between $100,000 and $450,000 in fees. Some of he big contests do waaaaay more than 10,000 entries. Certainly several had mailing lists of more than 250,000 songwriters about 10 years ago, you can only guess him many are on their books now. Often the entrants enter more than one song, so 10,000 entries is quite conservative. For bigger contests I wouldn't be surprised by 10 times that. Maybe 5 times is certainly very realistic.

Some contests also have placement arrangements ready and waiting. Yes a gain for the winner but also more money for the site.

The trouble is, other than the prize money the actual prizes are fairly short lived, and of limited benefit, even to the ultimate winners. Of course there are benefits, but lets also not kid ourselves that the well being and career of the winner is key here. It isn't. They are another quick turn over profit before being sucked dry and spat out lol

You can tell I am a fan can't you?

The paid contests are a bit of a mix between a lottery ticket and vanity publishing. As long as you understand that and are happy with the limited chance of tangible benefits, fair enough. Otherwise learn some skills, put your money towards real promotion and enter some free contests if you like that sort of thing or they give a ood level of feedback to all contestants.

Just my 2 cents

[john]

Hi there,

I have a question for anyone that might be interested, especially songwriters. I have entered songwriting contests in the past and never won one. That's beside the point. The question is this; Do you think a songwriting contest in which the entrants only submit recordings that are limited to vocal and one instrument (piano, guitar etc..) would be a refreshing alternative to the contests that are currently available?

My thinking is that, although most contests claim to only judge based on lyric content, melody, song structure etc... that most winners for one reason or another seem to have both production and performance ability on their side (I've been listening to winners of major contests like "the international songwriting competition" and "the John Lennon songwriting competition"). Would a contest that limited the format of the entries appeal to you as a songwriter? Do you see a reason to make that stipulation? Would you enter that contest even if it meant rerecording your song with a simple arrangement?

Any thoughts are welcome

It has been pointed out that I dodged the actual question while tap dancing on my soap box (in the nicest yet accurate way!). Sooooo...

Yes it would be refreshing in some ways. This would make it more about the song than the recording, although on a more negative note it would pretty well exclude electronica and many progressive songs that may need a larger wall of sound to carry them off. On a good note it means the judges compare songs where recording even for beginner writers should be affordable, and the differences between songs are greatly reduced leaving the judge to focus more on the song and less on the distractions of a lavish production

It wouldn't appeal to me as this form of contest doesn't appeal to me full stop. No offence but it just doesn't do it for me.

It is swings and roundabouts. It would certainly make the contest stand out from the others but where it gains in some ways it loses significantly in others.

[Kel]

I have good news for you!

 

I have a number of my songs entered into the annual Tamworth Songwriter's Association Song Contest hereinafter called The Contest).

 

Firstly, Tamworth is to Australia what Nashville is to USA... it's the capital of Country Music, and there are such good recording studios and producers there, other genres also record there.

 

The Contest has several categories, and three (3) entry types. The entry types are "Open", "Novice" and "Junior".

 

Open is of course, anything goes... but to qualify, a writer must have CDs avaialble for sale or earned money from sales of the song entered, or have won a recognised song contest.

 

Junior is for people under 18 and has the same restrictions as Novice.

 

Novice (the category my songs have been entered into) are limited to voice and acoustic guitar or voice and piano (keyboard on piano setting will qualify) AND not be eligible for Open.

 

Judging will be done by a panel. However, not all panelists will hear all songs. Sub panels will listen to a share of the entries only. There are several rounds of review, and the same panelist will not receive the same entry twice until perhaps the final round.

 

Entries must not have a writer's name either on the metadata of the mp3 track (or cd), or the lyric sheet, so no panelist "knows" who has written the entry lest that sway them.

 

Production and performance quality are not criteria in any category.

 

Entry is open to residents of Australia and New Zealand.

 

Entry fee is $15 for members or $25 for non-members or postal submissions. Funds go toward the Association. The association puts on workshops etc... we can see where the money goes.

 

Okay, I'll admit, there are some points there skeptics may poke at. However, the Country market is relatively small in Australia, TSA membership does include some major Australian artists and we need to have faith in something.

 

I hope you see this as a breath of fresh air.

 

Kel

[LayneGreene]

*snip*

 

Production and performance quality are not criteria in any category.

 

 

I find almost every songwriting contest says this. But how often do you hear a winning entry that isn't at the least decent quality production/performance.