Chorus Or Verse First?

[uncle808us]

I had a comment on one of my songs it went like this:

    "I created a song once that started with the chorus, and was told by the dude doing the backing that starting with chorus wasn't done…well I am glad you are like me and actually several other commercial song writers and like to push the boundaries"

     I'd be happy to hear others thoughts on this.

My thoughts are.   I usually write the chorus first.

Which is the idea for the song.

Then write verses to expand on the idea of the song.  

Then I repeat the chorus as a reminder as to what the song is about. Also usually contains the "Hook".

 

​     Let me also add that I don't find form that essential. Anything goes.  Rules are there to be broken,

As displayed by my neighbors who do not bother to pick up their dog's waste, or use leashes.

 

Thanks

[uncle808us]

Just to clarify a bit.....I'm confused by the way the question was stated.

• Are you asking for thoughts on beginning a song with the chorus section?

                                                       or

• Are you asking about creating (writing) the chorus section first?

Those are 2 entirely different questions.

Sorry to be so confusing. I'd like to hear people's thoughts on either question.

Edited January 15, 2014 by tunesmithth
moved response out of quote box

[uncle808us]

For the record, I've done both....multiple times.

Matter of fact, when it comes to the actual writing, I find it easier to craft chorus first, then build out from there. Similar to the way you'd construct an essay.....decide on the theme first, the build on it. I've also begun with a title, then chorus, then verse/bridge sections.

In my experience, there's no one way that's correct, comes down to whatever the specific individual is comfortable with.

Tom

Thank you Tom: That was exactly the kind of answer I was looking for. 

 

Bob

[OneGreyStone]

It depends on the song.  Sometimes I've wanted to write about a person who is in a situation. I asked myself what would they be saying (usually to another person) and I'd come up with a hook. Something like "Hey brother, give me what I need". Then I'd write a melody for it and that would usually become the chorus.

 

Sometimes it's the other way around. I'd have a general story to tell and I'd write a melody for it. If it sounded like a verse - it became the verse and then I'd think about the overall message of the song and try to write that into a chorus. And think about a prechors and middle section afterwards.

 

I did write one song once and began with a section that became the middle 8, but that's rare for me.

 

I'd put my biggest hooks in the chorus, but sometimes they will come in the verses - either lyrically or melodic Or both.

 

As a general rule, I'd use chorus for the overall message (repeated) and the verses to build the 'story'.

 

Neil

[uncle808us]

Thanks to all of you guys these are great answers to my questions. I really appreciate it.

Edited January 16, 2014 by uncle808us

[Kel]

I usually start on the hook first.

 

The hook can be in a chorus, or in a refrain, either way it's the most important part of the song in my opinion. Everything else should be there to support it. If you want a chorus, build it around/to the hook. Then the W questions will supply the info needed in the verses.

 

(Who, where, what, why) 

 

Cheers,

 

Kel

[Stephen Quinn]

Best thing is to go with what sounds good.  If the chorus is extremely catchy and anthemic, it can make a good beginning of the song.  Or if you come up with a chorus before anything else, try it out first.  It usually feels more natural to start with the first part you come up with.

[MikeRobinson]

I agree with Kel that starting with the hook (or hooks) ... musically and/or lyrically ... is a good idea, simply because "that is what catches the fish."

 

From that starting-point you have a lot of decisions. (!!!)  (Not "the" One Right Answer,â„¢ waiting to [ommmmm...] be Brought Down From    Heaven  ... but decisions with no One Right Answer!) 

 

The "hook" is the mousetrap "$"napping "$"hut.  Everything that surrounds it is a decision, and one thing that I've learned about my own style of making creative decisions is that I am fumbling in the dark looking for the right moment to turn on the light.  What story surrounds this mousetrap-moment, before and after?  (Hey, I'm the author:  what story do I want to surround it?)

 

Maybe you don't know right away, even though in the finished song (or songs) it will be (if you made good decisions ...) "obvious," even "inevitable."  C'mon, how the heck could you know "right away?"  It wouldn't be a decision anymore.  Ain't no golden ticket, ain't no crystal ball.   (Hey, that sounds like a lyric ...) 

 

If an idea for a chorus comes, grab it.  A verse?  Grab it.  Golly, another hook?  Snatch!  Another chorus idea?  Grab it, too!  Not sure how to say it?  Grab everything that comes to mind.  (Having grabbed 'em all, you can pick winners later.)  You might wind up with ideas for several different but related songs.  You'll never run out of paper, pencils, DAW tracks, or disk-space, but if your memory is like min – uhh, now where was I goin' with that?  Do ... Not ... Throw ... Anything ... Away.â„¢  You never know when you might use it [again !!].

 

Know where the "voice recorder" app is on your phone, and stick it on the home-page, ready to mash at a moment's notice.  (No one around here considers it odd for someone to be singing into his phone on the frozen-food aisle.)

 

It's brainstorming, and I find that it works in all sorts of creative things.  "Capture," "Archive," then [for this project ...] "Choose."  Sometimes a great idea drives the project; sometimes the need to the project drives you to crank out a bunch of ideas and to tap one of them on the shoulder and say, "I dub thee, 'great.' [... enough to use to meet deadline.]"  Usually it goes both ways.

 

As a friend put it:  "Sometimes great ideas come wafting down from heaven.  Other times, you just gotta shoot them suckers down."  

 

(You can make up any sort of "making-of" story version that you like for the fan-mags.  They expect you to be a god, anyway.  Tell 'em about writing the lyric down on a napkin.  Skip the part about the wastebasket overflowing with napkins.)

[uncle808us]

All very good replies and they are appreciated. Thank you all and may inspiration be upon you.

[Ilkker]

Sometimes the problem, for me anyway, with coming up with the chorus first is the consideration that if this chorus and hook are as good as I think then I still have to make the verses nearly as good and that can be no easy task.  But if I can come up with an attention grabbing verse or two then that could propel me to write a really good chorus.  So I like to leave open the possibility that what I thought was a chorus might end up being the verse.  I think there was something said about Hank Williams, or he may have said it himself, where he never wrote a line that wasn't a hook.  But it seems that with every song I start to write I go at it in different ways, no set formula.  The inspiration may be guitar riff, or a piano pattern, or something I realized I was singing to myself all day.  Where it fits in the end may be quite different from what I was thinking at the beginning.

[DarrenH]

My preference is chorus first but this all depends on the song. Having the chorus first can ruin a song but it can also work in the complete opposite way. I find the best way is to try recording with both the chorus first and the verse first to find out what fits better.

[Reza Sa]

i do both ways,but when i start with the chorus i usually have much better chorus melody,but the issue is

for me its hard to craft a proper verse which fits the chorus musically,if anyone has any tip plz help me out