Streaming Services Income

[john]

Hi Guys

 

I thought you might find this interesting... especially the monthly plays needed to get US minimum wage!

 

 

 

[Just1L]

Thanks John, very inspiring. LOL

[john]

Hey Randy...

 

it’s just one reason that for Indies, building a fan base and direct sales is far better. Other income methods are still valid, just not the most profitable.... though they do become more viable as your fan base increases.

 

btw sorry for not answering your PM yet! Too much crap going on mate. I will go take another look now.

 

Cheers

 

John

[Kyla]

Thats interesting.. 

Are you making Indie music? Does it work for you?

[john]

I do make indie music, though by far recent years I have focussed on helping other artists... through SOngstuff and through personal connections, and now via an indie co-op label.

 

At the lower end of the market, direct sales is definitely the way to go. Bring in some money (that you can use to finance fan base growth) until numbers are significant enough to make a dent in streaming and digital download platforms. That said, it is still a good idea to be on those platforms from the get go. Use a low cost ditribution platform to be present in those platforms.... however... as an artist with less than 3,000 fans, growing your mailing list is the priority, for many reasons. I would suggest focussing on direct sales up until about 10k fans. Just my 2 cents

[Kyla]

On 6/19/2018 at 10:45 PM, john said:

I do make indie music, though by far recent years I have focussed on helping other artists... through SOngstuff and through personal connections, and now via an indie co-op label.

 

At the lower end of the market, direct sales is definitely the way to go. Bring in some money (that you can use to finance fan base growth) until numbers are significant enough to make a dent in streaming and digital download platforms. That said, it is still a good idea to be on those platforms from the get go. Use a low cost ditribution platform to be present in those platforms.... however... as an artist with less than 3,000 fans, growing your mailing list is the priority, for many reasons. I would suggest focussing on direct sales up until about 10k fans. Just my 2 cents

Wow you really know your stuff! I would also agree about the mailing list

[LooknGlass]

An interesting article on streaming pay that I came across just before I saw this post.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/28/business/media/music-copyright-digital-services.html

 

[MikeRobinson]

I suggest that a reliable strategy, which was used in the earliest days but which is still applicable today, is:  

 

"crank 'em out!"

 

Write another song, throw it against the wall and see if it sticks.  (But, don't stand around watching it.)  

 

Dolly Parton, for example, has her name on more than 800 songs, and she's quite typical.

 

The Beatles wrote 236 original songs, and "covered" 69 more.  

 

You get the idea.

 

If any retailer's shelves are sufficiently filled, with a sufficient variety of products available for sale, they really don't lose sleep over which product you decide to buy.  They know that "you walked in here wanting to 'buy a song,'" and they're pretty sure that you'll walk out with ... $omething.

[Tandem Unicycle]

I have found that getting on streaming services is mainly to help with the spread of music. Only when it gets to millions of stream will major income show up. Getting onto playlists, be it the Spotify, YouTube, or any thing of the sort, really throws your music into a mix of other music that exposes many listeners to your music without needing to see the actual song being promoted. 

 

Our song "Keep on Pushing Through" has had something like 5000% increase response when we threw this into playlists. In the entire duration of some of our songs (2 years), we had less than 1000 streams on Spotify. And with this tactic, we have 10k streams (and building each day) in only 2 weeks.

 

We have been accepted onto other bigger playlists, as well as made our own.

I would recommend this! Check out some of the playlists that have been helping the spread.

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/6IgMUtvTjuY7TOeT6Dcxmy?si=8dy2ws-4RCOz8zHRr0-3UQ

 

 

[Just1L]

On 6/19/2018 at 3:45 PM, john said:

as an artist with less than 3,000 fans, growing your mailing list is the priority, for many reasons.

 

I agree. I looked a little before but didn't find what I was looking for. What's the best way to build a mailing list without social media?

[john]

1 hour ago, Just1L said:

 

I agree. I looked a little before but didn't find what I was looking for. What's the best way to build a mailing list without social media?

 

Hey Randy

 

Why without social media? I ask because you can use advertising on social media... you would still need an account, but it doesn't need to be active. In better understanding why you place that limitation upon it I could give a better answer.

 

Normally, structurally I would recommend an artist to have an artist web site, portals on the main social hubs, and amongst other things, a mailing list provider. Social hubs provide a valuable discovery and engagement platform, so to count them out is not impossible but it is tying your hands behind your back.

 

There are two main aspects to growth... finding prospective subscribers, and retaining subscribers. Finding subscribers means going where fans are and putting compelling temptation in front of them. Retaining subscribers is in part down to the offers you make them, but it is to a large part how you keep them engaged and motivated. Warming people up as subscribers is something different again, but that is more about how many subscribers buy your products than it is about retention.

 

Retaining, welll there are a number of things you can do, but discovery... it isn't about only looking for fans in one place, but these days social media does contribute a sizeable chunk.... though the largest recruitment of the most suitable fans tends to come from advertising.

 

Cheers

 

John

[Just1L]

3 hours ago, john said:

 

Hey Randy

 

Why without social media? I ask because you can use advertising on social media... you would still need an account, but it doesn't need to be active. In better understanding why you place that limitation upon it I could give a better answer.

 

Normally, structurally I would recommend an artist to have an artist web site, portals on the main social hubs, and amongst other things, a mailing list provider. Social hubs provide a valuable discovery and engagement platform, so to count them out is not impossible but it is tying your hands behind your back.

 

There are two main aspects to growth... finding prospective subscribers, and retaining subscribers. Finding subscribers means going where fans are and putting compelling temptation in front of them. Retaining subscribers is in part down to the offers you make them, but it is to a large part how you keep them engaged and motivated. Warming people up as subscribers is something different again, but that is more about how many subscribers buy your products than it is about retention.

 

Retaining, welll there are a number of things you can do, but discovery... it isn't about only looking for fans in one place, but these days social media does contribute a sizeable chunk.... though the largest recruitment of the most suitable fans tends to come from advertising.

 

Cheers

 

John

I used to use social media, just don’t care what it does to a person, and me specifically. I’d say the best option for me would be to get a mail provider which I may do. I do realize it is just spamming but it is what it is I reckon. I’m going nowhere fast currently so I need to bite the bullet somewhere. I seem to recall you recommending mailchimp in the past. Do you still recommend that one?

 

[john]

15 minutes ago, Just1L said:

I used to use social media, just don’t care what it does to a person, and me specifically. I’d say the best option for me would be to get a mail provider which I may do. I do realize it is just spamming but it is what it is I reckon. I’m going nowhere fast currently so I need to bite the bullet somewhere. I seem to recall you recommending mailchimp in the past. Do you still recommend that one?

 

 

Yep. Mailchimp are pretty good. Up to 2000 contacts is free iirc. there is a message limit too but it is reasonable. If it becomes too limiting you can always upgrade.

 

It's only spamming if it is unwanted and un-valued. That can be true on social media too... ie you spam friends and family about your music/art/lunches. Fans of your music are not the same.... they want to now about your music. That is why personal pages should not be used for your band.

 

I get why you might not want a personal page on Facebook or twitter, however fan engagement is important, as is recruitment. At some point you need to reach beyond people whose shoulder you can tap. As long as you treat them with respect there should be no feelings of spamming. As for you yourself, you can always engage professionally but not personally. That way you don't get the whole "bombarded with crap" effect.

 

You will need a site too, preferably with a blog.

 

If you won't use social media for recruitment, what will you use? Forums would be too slow. Blogs, maybe but you would need to be an awesome and active blogger to do it on it's own. 

 

TBH, once set up, you could use automation to drive your blog posts onto Facebook, twitter etc. That way you don't need to go near it. YouTube has other uses... ie video storage and streaming. Even if that is for interviews of you to embed in your bog

[Just1L]

7 minutes ago, john said:

 

Yep. Mailchimp are pretty good. Up to 2000 contacts is free iirc. there is a message limit too but it is reasonable. If it becomes too limiting you can always upgrade.

 

It's only spamming if it is unwanted and un-valued. That can be true on social media too... ie you spam friends and family about your music/art/lunches. Fans of your music are not the same.... they want to now about your music. That is why personal pages should not be used for your band.

 

I get why you might not want a personal page on Facebook or twitter, however fan engagement is important, as is recruitment. At some point you need to reach beyond people whose shoulder you can tap. As long as you treat them with respect there should be no feelings of spamming. As for you yourself, you can always engage professionally but not personally. That way you don't get the whole "bombarded with crap" effect.

 

You will need a site too, preferably with a blog.

 

If you won't use social media for recruitment, what will you use? Forums would be too slow. Blogs, maybe but you would need to be an awesome and active blogger to do it on it's own. 

 

TBH, once set up, you could use automation to drive your blog posts onto Facebook, twitter etc. That way you don't need to go near it. YouTube has other uses... ie video storage and streaming. Even if that is for interviews of you to embed in your bog

 

Yeah, ideally I would use my current website for everything ... sending out messages, blogging and everything else but do realize I can't use it if people aren't actually coming to it. I'm also in a bind with the fact that the vast majority of what my music has to say is going against the grain of everyone online. And If I have a song about social media, which I do, it would be hypocritical to use social media to boost my music. Luckily for me music isn't my bread and butter.

[john]

You could balance it by writing a song about being hypocritical lol

 

Well the trick is to start getting people to your site!

 

Oh and people complain all the time about mobile phones and people being glued to them and tablets... often writing on tablets and certainly not giving up their cell.

 

tbh, in this day and age i very much doubt people would blink or expect you to not use social media. How many songs are there by artists that complain about the demon drink or drugs... yet the singer and writer readily light up a joint or have a drink on a night out?

 

hell you could say the song was a fantasy lol

[Just1L]

33 minutes ago, john said:

Oh and people complain all the time about mobile phones and people being glued to them and tablets... often writing on tablets and certainly not giving up their cell.

 

LOL Yes, my faith in humans has certainly taken a downturn since the internet came around.

[Michan]

Even in social media it is hard to engage people with what you are doing, at least with the kind of music, for example,  that I am doing right now (that is not "mainstream" at all). I hope it is easier with pop music, or rock... 

 

In my (short) experience, what it happens is that, at the end artists support each others a lot, but it's really hard to get "normal" listeners. 

After a while, the feeling you end up with is that, probably the reason why you can't get there is because your music is not good enough. And that sucks quite a lot, because it's very discouraging. I can understand that: me myself, I'm a very hard fan, I'm only active listener of a couple of very big bands, and barely get hooked to any other's people music, so, in my head, it's totally understandable what happens to average indie artists. 

 

Having said this, I agree totally with John. If you don't use social media, nowadays, I can't really think on any other way to reach to people efficiently, unless you start to play gigs like crazy and you get people from there. 

 

If it helps, @Just1L I don't like neither how people uses social media (specially facebook). They tend to put all their lives out there, paiting them as perfect, and, sometimes, even losing contact with their own reality. And that is to negative critique. But if you, as a band, think and use social media as a professional tool to get a clear and practical objective, that is spreading your music, it is a totally different story. And, even if you have songs against that first point I've mentioned (or related), I think you won't be being hypocritical at all.