GIVING CREDIT...

[DaveKell]

I have an issue that's been on my mind since joining this forum. As an example, one of the songs I posted awhile back, another member suggested a change to the chorus. I tried the revised version out at the next weekly jam session and it worked fabulously. Suddenly, my conscience says I had a co-writer. In another instance, someone contributed a perfectly fitting entire first verse to a chorus idea I'd been kicking around a full 3 decades. That suddenly made it possible for me to write another verse and I ended up with yet another song that went over splendidly at my jam and songwriter night. Without that input, I might have taken that chorus idea to my grave. I'm only concerned about this because of some incredible inroads the Universe is making for me into getting a song cut by someone. Suppose they decide to record a song that I employed an easily discovered bit of help with online? I told the guy who gave me the entire first verse that I considered him to be a full 50% contributor. His response was along the lines of "thanks, not necessary I might need your help someday". I can see where that attitude could change if they ever heard the song on the radio! By the way, I've made an offer once before to another person of a 50% credit. My friend in Nashville with an impressive resume of artists who've recorded his song told me not to ever do that. He said usually if I let the person who contributed some help ask for a percentage of credit they'll usually ask for far less than my offer. I'd rather err on the side of generosity. Has this ever been an actual issue on this forum? 

[john]

On 3/7/2019 at 6:05 PM, DaveKell said:

I have an issue that's been on my mind since joining this forum. As an example, one of the songs I posted awhile back, another member suggested a change to the chorus. I tried the revised version out at the next weekly jam session and it worked fabulously. Suddenly, my conscience says I had a co-writer. In another instance, someone contributed a perfectly fitting entire first verse to a chorus idea I'd been kicking around a full 3 decades. That suddenly made it possible for me to write another verse and I ended up with yet another song that went over splendidly at my jam and songwriter night. Without that input, I might have taken that chorus idea to my grave. I'm only concerned about this because of some incredible inroads the Universe is making for me into getting a song cut by someone. Suppose they decide to record a song that I employed an easily discovered bit of help with online? I told the guy who gave me the entire first verse that I considered him to be a full 50% contributor. His response was along the lines of "thanks, not necessary I might need your help someday". I can see where that attitude could change if they ever heard the song on the radio! By the way, I've made an offer once before to another person of a 50% credit. My friend in Nashville with an impressive resume of artists who've recorded his song told me not to ever do that. He said usually if I let the person who contributed some help ask for a percentage of credit they'll usually ask for far less than my offer. I'd rather err on the side of generosity. Has this ever been an actual issue on this forum? 

 

Hi Dave

 

A good question.

 

It has been discussed as a general issue. As a site we recommend writers resolve this, but generally where a suggestion is used exactly as suggested, it is both fair and courteous to acknowledge the contribution. Where you do that, dues would be entirely appropriate. Indeed in lieu of an agreement that should be the default. That said, we encourage an attitude of “many thanks”, “what goes around comes around”, ie ideas are shared for free and on a goodwill basis, BUT it should never be assumed. Indeed, if you like an idea and plan to use an idea verbatim, have the chat before you use the idea. It is always good to know where you stand.

 

So, assume verbatum ideas should be credited and co-writer terms apply if you do not have an explicit agreement in place that dictates other terms or agreement that a deal is necessary. If you do not have an agreement, it is in your interest to get something in place, even if that is that no credit or ownership assignment is necessary.

 

As to what you should offer, percentages are difficult... because one word might make s huge difference. An entire section might have no appreciable influence on commercial successful.

 

I agree with your Nashville friend. Contact them, say you believe they are “entitled to be credited as s co-writer” and that “this should include a percentage of ownership and royalty assignment”. Ask them what they think about this. If they agree to that principle, ask them what they feel would be fair, and see what they say.

 

I yet again stress that unless they set out as co-writers, commonly a free to use without credit is the most common approach amongst members. Indeed some writers do NOT want associated with your work. For example a Christian writer takes time to drop a comment on your death metal number. They may well not want to be associated with your work in any official capacity.

 

Historically, I know members talk of it sometimes. I absolutely encourage them to do so. I am not aware of any actual disputes in the 19 years the site has been running, with the exception of a non member who misunderstood copyright and ownership, had no shame and happily represented a blatant use of someone’s lyrics as his own, and defended it as. “They were available publicly for free so therefor are free to use”. He refused to be educated on the matter or to act in a decent way. I helped the member he ripped off. We contacted all sites he posted the work on, informed them of his comments. Contacted Google, Bing and others with take down requests. Within days his posted work was removed from those sites ( including OMD sites and forums) his work was removed from the search engines and social media we contacted. Some sites closed his account, because when you can’t trust the legality of posted works, you cannot allow their content.

 

I digress. That is the only time I remember an ownership dispute. Certainly of any serious nature. I know if I help you, I am happy not to be credited. Most members take that attitude for critique scenarios.

 

I hope this helps

[DaveKell]

Excellent response. Thanks. 

[Kel]

Hi Dave,

 

I don't ask for any writing credit when I offer a suggestion, though it has been offered on occasion. If I go into a co-write, sure, it's a co-write. But offering somebody a word here or a phrase there is, to me, the spirit of the site, and others like it.

 

I do think you have brought up a great topic, and it is always best to get this sort of thing clear from the start.

 

I have also creditted other members as co-writers, but at the start when asking particular members for their assistance. I suppose when I start hearing my songs on the radio, or some other medium and begin getting paid for it (ha!) I'll have to think about it some more.
 

Cheers,

Kel