Mixing

[FinnArild]

And Prometheus, Loo then went on to pass onto me a mixing trick someone gave him long ago, and it was exactly how you explained to do it: sweep the frequency til one finds something BAD, then cut that.

I'd be a bit careful on the eq - I've found that removing what sounds bad alone, often removes the character in the whole picture. That method often results in 80's sounding recordings with all bass and top and no middle (since it's the middle frequencies we often find sounding a bit nasty).

In general, I add a bit top and top-middle on voice. Middle on guitar, semi-top middle on piano. Drop bass on all these. Remove top from bass and add a bit bottom-middle.

I usually never remove "nasty sounding" frequencies, since these are often the key element in defining the sound in ensemble. Sometimes - in a mix - I even end up boosting them just a bit.

[Prometheus]

Ulp, I'm beginning to know what you're speaking of (brick limitor! tho I know not what it is exactly - think I get what it does!)

Thanks for the primer on faders/gain/overloading. Funny, it seems a common problem I've seen perusing here and elsewhere is the mix being too low volume and/or distortion/overloading is there. One little hill atta time. (Do your drums really stay at those lower peakes?)

For general interest re: my machine tascam 246 and it's eq section function, just received an almost definitive reply from a trusted friend (Loo). He's many years upscaled from a 4-track (that's why I say "almost" definitive), and I knew he could help this past month, but the man just became a father, dursn't bother him...yet y'all have been here to walk me through these things.

Here is Loo's bit: "As I recall, the 'bottom' button ( ie tier) is the sweepable portion of the EQ knob (for example, picture a normal "Equalizer" with 30 adjustable

> faders, 10 for bass, 10 for mid, and 10 for high). I'm pretty sure

> the bottom half of the knob on the 246 machine (and my 244 machine) is

> the same as adjusting faders, ie, all the way turned down would be

> dropping the low end, and all the way up would be boosting the high

> end, and everything in between (I hope this makes sense). The 'top'

> half of the knob is the overall volume."

And Prometheus, Loo then went on to pass onto me a mixing trick someone gave him long ago, and it was exactly how you explained to do it: sweep the frequency til one finds something BAD, then cut that.

Loo ended his note: "In

> other words, rather than trying to find 'good' EQ levels and boost

> them, he'd search for 'nasty' EQ levels and drop them."

I hope to be re-recording this week.

Yeah, attenuating undesirable frequency problems is generally the way to go with EQ...

A brick wall limiter is basically a compressor with such a high ratio that it crushes any peaks that go over the threshold flat... It can be used to stop clipping happening at the recording stage, and is used at the mastering stage to make the overall signal louder and bring the volume up to a commercial CD level...

[Prometheus]

I'd be a bit careful on the eq - I've found that removing what sounds bad alone, often removes the character in the whole picture. That method often results in 80's sounding recordings with all bass and top and no middle (since it's the middle frequencies we often find sounding a bit nasty).

In general, I add a bit top and top-middle on voice. Middle on guitar, semi-top middle on piano. Drop bass on all these. Remove top from bass and add a bit bottom-middle.

I usually never remove "nasty sounding" frequencies, since these are often the key element in defining the sound in ensemble. Sometimes - in a mix - I even end up boosting them just a bit.

I would defintely almost always remove some mid range, but as you say, it has to be done very carefully... It depends on the microphones and the character room that you record in as well, not to mention the instruments you're recording... I definitely shelf up some instruments at the top and high mid too...

I defintely agree that EQ must be used with caution... EQ is probably the most misused effect...

[Donna]

I want a brick wall limiter!

PS: Finn, I note what you said per taking out the bad.

Thank goodness these things can be checked via listening on various speakers (and the following day) w/ a mix. Then re-evaluate.

I will attempt to go easy in eq knob tweaking.

Edited November 30, 2005 by Donna

[john]

Hey

Behringer do an affordable compressor/limiter for about £50 / $80 - Composer Pro.

Cheers

John

[Prometheus]

Hey

Behringer do an affordable compressor/limiter for about £50 / $80 - Composer Pro.

Cheers

John

I recommend that piece of kit... It provides compression without colouring the sound... Every Studio I've been in has a composer in it... I've got two of them...

Donna, I don't know if you've got the same send return loops on the 246 that I do on the 244, but if so it should be a simple matter with a couple of sets of jack to phono cables, which you should be able to pick up for a couple of dollars each, to patch a dual channel composer pro into the Tascam. You then have the option of stereo linking the left and right channel, or treating them as seperate tracks...

[BongStuff]

Fab article Mr. P

Nothing to add m'lud...

BS

[Prometheus]

Fab article Mr. P

Nothing to add m'lud...

BS

I just love writing those weighty tomes...

[Donna]

Hmmm. Three possible nicknames for Prometheus (it does get long to type out the whole thing): Mr. P, m'lud and Pro.

I'm usually very quick at shortening names, but not here.

Maybe I'll just call him Al once in a while?

[BongStuff]

Hmmm. Three possible nicknames for Prometheus (it does get long to type out the whole thing): Mr. P, m'lud and Pro.

I'm usually very quick at shortening names, but not here.

Maybe I'll just call him Al once in a while?

A man walks down the street

He says why am I soft in the middle now

Why am I soft in the middle

The rest of my life is so hard

I need a photo-opportunity

I want a shot at redemption

Don't want to end up a cartoon

In a cartoon graveyard

Bonedigger Bonedigger

Dogs in the moonlight

Far away my well-lit door

Mr. Beerbelly Beerbelly

Get these mutts away from me

You know I don't find this stuff amusing anymore

If you'll be my bodyguard

I can be your long lost pal

I can call you Betty

And Betty when you call me

You can call me Al...

[Donna]

Word.

[Donna]

Which speakers should I mix for? Right now I'm still on headphones only. The mix sounds different: on cheap boom box, on car stereo speakers (best system in my realm), on computer speakers.

[hariossa]

A man walks down the street

He says why am I soft in the middle now

Why am I soft in the middle

The rest of my life is so hard

I need a photo-opportunity

I want a shot at redemption

Don't want to end up a cartoon

In a cartoon graveyard

Bonedigger Bonedigger

Dogs in the moonlight

Far away my well-lit door

Mr. Beerbelly Beerbelly

Get these mutts away from me

You know I don't find this stuff amusing anymore

If you'll be my bodyguard

I can be your long lost pal

I can call you Betty

And Betty when you call me

You can call me Al...

Paul Simon!!, I love that album it has some great songs with awesome bass lines and great singing by ladysmith black mambazo...

[hariossa]

Which speakers should I mix for? Right now I'm still on headphones only. The mix sounds different: on cheap boom box, on car stereo speakers (best system in my realm), on computer speakers.

right now I'm using a pair of mission home-theatre speakers, not the right choice, but better than headphones I guess... I'm planning to buy a pair of decent monitors and I heard/read good stuff about the KRK RP-5 and RP-6, they are not too expensive, about $300 for a pair, and they are active so you don't need an amplifier.

[Prometheus]

Which speakers should I mix for? Right now I'm still on headphones only. The mix sounds different: on cheap boom box, on car stereo speakers (best system in my realm), on computer speakers.

If you have any spare cash, I would strongly advise a pair of reference monitors... Headphones, I've found are a dead loss, as you say, they give you no spatial feel and the frequency response is totally different... You should be able to get a decent set of reference monitors on ebay or the second hand market for less than 100 dollars...

[BongStuff]

Which speakers should I mix for? Right now I'm still on headphones only. The mix sounds different: on cheap boom box, on car stereo speakers (best system in my realm), on computer speakers.

Yeah you certainly want to be testing your mix on as many sources as you can, but

for producing in your studio you want something as neutral and "revealing" as possible. Reference monitors

and a decent power amp.

If you *must* use a hifi amp dont f**k with the tone controls. Take the loudness off

and keep it flat flat flat. But bear in mind a hifi amp will have been tuned to

assert its own character on the sound...as will any set of hifi speakers.

Headphones I know are an unfortunate necessity for those of us who make

music in the residential home...but dont rely on them for mixing.

I made this mistake many years ago, taking my lovingly honed track to a

record label and the first thing the guy said was

"did you mix this on headphones?"

I now use a pair of AKG K141's which are about as good as you'll get for mixing work. Cost

around 100 euros. As recommended by Didier!!! ( merci mon ami )

BS

[BongStuff]

ps. K141's actually a bit cheaper than I thought now...about 70 euros

http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/page/shop/fl.../product_id/922

[Donna]

Ok, but I don't think monitor acquisition will be happening this month unless a benefactor shows up!

So in the meantime, any hints at all? I'm still set on entering the Christmas contest here no matter how bad it may sound.

Is the power amp/monitor package necessary do the rest of you think...I like the idea Hari mentioned of the monitor being self contained.

[Donna]

The silence has almost convinced me I'd better try to round up some monitors at once.

[Donna]

Little update pasted from the PC board:

_________________________________

** I'm listening to the MP3 [that Husband figured out how to convert from CD] and why I do NOT know, but the tempo and pitch are as they were originally! I may just send this one, it's adequate - in fact, I'm almost PLEASED with the mix! I think it'll work.