Lyrics, How hard is "Simple"?

[John W Selleck]

Lyrics have been around for a while, and finding something original to write becomes more of a challenge every day. Most people I know listen to music to take their minds off the every day problems of life, or/and to feel closer to others who feel the same way; sad or happy. With this in mind, most like simple songs, something you can sing along with and remember the lyrics to. Since every feeling has been written to death, along with most experiences, how do you find a new, simple way to express something that's been said so many times before? The answer for me, has always been a "Hook" that catches the ear and hopefully the listener's attention in a new way.

Do any of you use other ways?

[John Selleck]

No Joy?

[Peggy]

I think hooks for sure, and I often times take a little divergent path in what is otherwise standard feelings/thoughts/emotions with my hooks.    

 

I've learned that understanding the power of word stress and national sonic shaping is an important factor in lyric writing. It not only helps listeners connect by having consistent word meter or rhythm, it also makes creating ideas easier for me as I craft verse to verse to melodies.  

[John W Selleck]

6 hours ago, Peggy said:

I've learned that understanding the power of word stress and national sonic shaping is an important factor in lyric writing.

Them's some awful fancy words, but so true, if I get the meaning right. We have to write for our audience. I was told recently, that my lyrics were too simple. Of course this was by someone who doesn't have any songwriting credits at all, so i took it with more than a few grains of salt.

[Peggy]

@john actually nudges me to try to be more free form and let my ideas go down then start worrying about developing the hook, stress, rhyming/no-rhyming structure .. so I've been trying .. that's why i love the lyric challenges.. they help me consider different narratives and develop techniques that I may not have exposed my writing to.

 

56 minutes ago, John W Selleck said:

We have to write for our audience

Haha.. I do love when someone likes my lyrics.. I feel like I reached them in some way.

[John W Selleck]

5 hours ago, Peggy said:

@john actually nudges me to try to be more free form and let my ideas go down then start worrying about developing the hook, stress, rhyming/no-rhyming structure .. so I've been trying .. that's why i love the lyric challenges.. they help me consider different narratives and develop techniques that I may not have exposed my writing to.

I usually start with a hook, or an idea for one but sometimes it starts with a line and evolves. Either way works.

[Peggy]

5 minutes ago, John W Selleck said:

I usually start with a hook, or an idea for one but sometimes it starts with a line and evolves. Either way works.

That little spark of word brilliance that I get (that's a joke..haha) that causes a lyric, generally ends up as being my hook. 

[MikeRobinson]

"Simple ... actually ... is the very hardest thing in the world!"

 

Because, if "taking 'creativity' and turning it into a commercially successful piece of art'" was actually as "simple" as it sounds, then today we would have neither "artists" nor "art majors!"  😁

 

As the old song goes:  "the Art of Making Art is ... putting it together."

 

 

How many "not-final drafts" went into the production of <<name-of-famous-novel>>?  How many songs that were recorded for <<famous_album>> didn't make the final cut?  The Public Will Never Know, because producers know perfectly well that "the consumer does not care about the trick – only the magic."  Remember that.

 

If you hold yourself up against the standard that "Works of Art somehow pop up out of a clamshell – fully-formed and utterly starkers" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Birth_of_Venus) – then "you are quite doomed to be disappointed."  Real-world successes are always the combined work product of a great many people, all-but-one of whom probably remain "unsung."  (Do we know the names of the people who sharpened his chisels?  And, do you really think that The Maestro, Himself spent the hundreds of hours that it took to achieve those utterly-perfect surfaces?  C'mon ...)

 

But also – Thomas Edison:

• “I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.”
• “Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up.”
• “We often miss opportunity because it's dressed in overalls and looks like work."

[John W Selleck]

5 hours ago, MikeRobinson said:

"Simple ... actually ... is the very hardest thing in the world!"

Agreed, it is like the many overnight successes we hear about who worked for years at what they do to finally get "Noticed". Like so many people have said, the true art of songwriting is in the rewrite. I have worn out lots of pencils and erasures, figuratively, rewriting or recreating songs. Luckily, I won't ever be too disappointed because I write mainly for me, though financial rewards don't hurt.

[MikeRobinson]

Something else that I think is very important to remember about the creative process is that "it is not deterministic!"

 

The final song that you hear – the final lyric if any that was sung – was the product of a choice.  And, it wasn't the sort of choice where "there is only one right answer and you stumble around in the dark until <<insert "angelic-choir.wav">> ... "suddenly, there it is."  No, there probably were committee meetings. 🤪  Very possibly, a choice was made between several candidates.

 

And then, once the basic concept was approved, a very technical "manufacturing process" happened to actually realize "putting it together!"

 

But I think that this also brings up two other important points:

1. Anytime you are "just noodling around," have your phone recording.  Did a tune just pop into your head while you were driving somewhere?  Grab that recorder.  Keep your phone by your bed.
2. Whenever you decide, "this sucks!" and are ready to rip it in half and dump it ... don't.  Put it into a folder that you never empty.  And, every so often, go back and have a listen.  Every newspaper had what they called "the morgue," and every now and then a headline materialized out of it.

 

[John W Selleck]

5 hours ago, MikeRobinson said:

But I think that this also brings up two other important points:

1. Anytime you are "just noodling around," have your phone recording.  Did a tune just pop into your head while you were driving somewhere?  Grab that recorder.  Keep your phone by your bed.
2. Whenever you decide, "this sucks!" and are ready to rip it in half and dump it ... don't.  Put it into a folder that you never empty.  And, every so often, go back and have a listen.  Every newspaper had what they called "the morgue," and every now and then a headline materialized out of it.

Very good advice. Many good ideas are lost because we store them away till later. I know I have lost at least a few that I started as I was going to sleep, or woke up early with, and didn't get up to write down. I have trained myself now to do just that. If I don't write the whole lyric at a go, I at least write a start. If I get an idea while I am out driving, or walking/fishing/biking/taking a shower, I just start singing it to myself, at least the parts I have, and many times I will have written a whole lyric before I get home or to a place where I can write it down. The trick for me is just to keep singing it until I can get it down.

And I don't have a folder, I know, I should; but I just leave them uncompleted and eventually I find my way back to them. Sometimes I will finish a lyric months or even years later.

[AnikaShea]

On 2/5/2020 at 9:14 PM, John W Selleck said:

If I get an idea while I am out driving, or walking/fishing/biking/taking a shower, I just start singing it to myself, at least the parts I have, and many times I will have written a whole lyric before I get home or to a place where I can write it down. The trick for me is just to keep singing it until I can get it down.

 

^ This. It's kind of annoying sometimes, haha. I start a shower, think of an idea I really like, and then I have to sing it to myself over and over until I get to my phone.

[John W Selleck]

5 hours ago, AnikaShea said:

 

^ This. It's kind of annoying sometimes, haha. I start a shower, think of an idea I really like, and then I have to sing it to myself over and over until I get to my phone.

But isn't that so much better than never having the ideas at all? I've been getting them lately at the beginning of my 2 hour fitness walks. I also complain sometimes. then I think how blessed I am to be able to write things and share with others that enjoy them.

[AnikaShea]

It actually can be kinda nice to be stuck somewhere with an idea. 'Cause like you said, you can end up developing it pretty far by the time you get a chance to write it down. Which is nice. I have way too many unfinished ideas in my phone.

[John W Selleck]

5 hours ago, AnikaShea said:

It actually can be kinda nice to be stuck somewhere with an idea. 'Cause like you said, you can end up developing it pretty far by the time you get a chance to write it down. Which is nice. I have way too many unfinished ideas in my phone.

Agreed. I used to have notebooks, yeah, real paper; filled with songs or the beginnings of them. when I finished a notebook I would go back and look at the ones I hadn't finished to see if inspiration hit again. If not I would tear them out, staple them together, and make a folder of them. Now it's all done on a laptop or in my head.

[AnikaShea]

Haha. What is this "paper" you speak of?

[John W Selleck]

5 hours ago, AnikaShea said:

Haha. What is this "paper" you speak of?

Some songwriters/open mic haunts used to have a wall with lyrics to famous songs, or the start of them, written on all kinds of different things, from matchbook covers to napkins and everything in between. Some beautiful things were written on trash.

[MikeRobinson]

To me, "creating something" really consists of choosing.  You start with "an idea that comes from who-knows-where," but what comes next is real work, because there is no pre-ordained outcome.  (Unless you approach the project with a specific outcome or type of song in mind.)  There's really nothing to say that your last idea is "better" nor "worse" than the next one.  There are no road-signs pointing the way.  When you set out to create something, your really are "completely on your own," and I suspect that a lot of people find that they are uncomfortable with that.  It's a daunting prospect, really.

[Paul B]

Sometimes i have a hard time understanding what a song is about because the writer writes poetry and not lyrics.

 

 

 

 

 

[John W Selleck]

5 hours ago, Paul B said:

Sometimes i have a hard time understanding what a song is about because the writer writes poetry and not lyrics.

 

 

 

 

 

Many lyrics are poetic, but some are very vague, or have obscure references.