Plans and Goals

john · November 1, 2022

Hi

As a songwriter, what are your options? What can YOU do with YOUR songs?

For example... what is your plan (or was) for approaching music publishers? What is your plans for demos? Do you plan to release songs as an artist? What about end goals? Do you want other artists to perform your songs? Do you plan to release an original and then pitch the song? Do you intend going after production companies as your main priority?

Although I started this topic here for general discussion, if anyone wants to explore their options, plans and tactics, we can perhaps start individual topics and workshop your plans? It has to be better than working on them on your own. It's a good chance to sanity check your music plan.

Cheers

John

eclecticnosepicker · November 3, 2022

6 hours ago, VoiceEx said:

@john This is a fantastic topic and I would like to make a suggestion that might be related to it. Though keep in mind, Its.. errmm.. a bit unorthodox, and I'm not sure if its possible. So, if I'm speaking nonsense here, please bare with me! 😅

For the sake of convenience and providing context, I will simplify the general idea by using some of my own experiences in online forums, in hopes that this might encourage more people to pitch in and further this discussion.

Okay. So here's how this goes. I will also ping few existing members which I think might be interested in at least viewing this topic. What? Its been a long time while since I bugged random people! 👍 @Mahesh @Peggy @GregB @Mora Amaro La Loba @Karhala @TheGarageJump @Reginald Bigsby @eclecticnosepicker @Stewart Schmidt

As you may already know, before I came to Songstuff I genuinely disliked general music forums. Practically every other community I checked out before signing up here, was either: completely useless for free members, plagued by parasites and scammers, had little-to-no staff involvement, or, in some extreme cases, I have even seen entire communities which were just straight up toxic (Admins included). I could go on, but you get the idea.

Now, thankfully, I think that SF has carefully nurtured an amazing community over the years, and it shows! Though before anyone starts jumping to conclusions, no, I'm not saying all of this to boost anyone's ego. Far from it. I think that despite all the great things this place has to offer, the majority of people just don't do anything with it.

So, in the spirit of the thread, I would like to suggest you guys do a small yet effective hands-on demonstration of what Songstuff can do for its members. And, no, I'm not suggesting something big or too elaborate. Something basic. More like, a "Sneak Peek Free Membership Model", which includes current community members. The idea is to present real-time coverage of how Songstuff can help its members, and in a approachable way. People like user friendly stuff.

So here's how my idea goes. It will seem a bit strange at first, but maybe there's something to it. And, yes, I will present this idea with financial considerations in mind. My suggesting can be done for free, include anyone, and present results with relatively minimal efforts. I am also going to compose this "pitch" in a realistic way, based on things which I have noticed that typically go on in forums (not just in SF).

The Initial premise of the presentation:

Realistically speaking, what most musicians have in common is their desire to have an audience (not to mention fans and supporters). So, if you guys will demonstrate how you take an actual DIY artist, with, lets say, 1-30 listeners (at best), and show publicly the documentation of you taught them to turn that into 5k+ effectively (with relative ease, without any party needing to spend money), and in a way that's easy to understand and is accessible for amateurs - than I believe that that would be a good selling point as a presentation for some of the benefits that Songstuff has to offer. Or, At the very least, it might get people's attention, and encourage people to want to reach out more, and take part in this community.

Think of it as like saying: "THIS is what Songstuff can do, and actively does for its free members. Can you show me another Forum that actually into that?". And if this presentation is done 'live' and on board, not through private messages, as something that everyone can see in here, than I think that would make for an interesting "free membership preview" which might also incentivize current members to start wanting to participate more, and bring their friends along.

I'm not sure if this is possible, since I haven't really seen this done anywhere else. Though here are a few suggestions on how you guys might be able to do that:

Pick a few current members of the community which you believe might be interested in being featured in this sort of documentation / presentation (Possibly through conducting a survey or handing out a questioner). However, come up with a way that literally any registered member could apply and participate. You know, so that people won't get the impression that there's some kind of internal favoritism involved.

Once you pick a several trust worthy candidates, assuming all parties are in agreement, than you could take it to the next level by having all parties Stream the progress, share their insights, and each party create their own logs and continues share their documentations, both as individuals, and as a collective. A sort of streaming collaboration, as it were. Than shove that in any and all Songstuff related content, media feeds, and you could slowly extend that to existing supporters which are a bit more established. Like Mahesh maybe, or whoever else.

Speaking of which. While your doing that, you could also get more traction on the Youtube front through this. I mean, yeah, the playlists are great. However, its not as sexy as flexing how far Songstuff can take someone. Not to mention, it will also open the doors for pushing even more common social media things, Youtube shorts, TikTok, generating revenue (etc etc etc).

Anyway... this reply is much longer than I intended it to be, but I think that perhaps what I'm saying might help. I mean, at the very least, if forum members can see this sort of progress going on, and with members they actually know, it would I think potentially encourage more members to participate. I mean, think about it, if you tell people "Yeah lets put you on the UK list with a bunch of artists", its not the same as saying: "Check out this flex!" lol. That's just a joke, but you get what I mean.

Again - I don't know if this idea is feasible! I want to make that crystal clear! 🤐 I simply think that it would be cool if more people shared ideas together, and I hope that this sparks even more discussion about these topics!

Although it's not been discussed publicly, I know we've talked and you know I can make pretty decent sounding rock productions. As far as helping burgeoning indie artists here, I don't know how much help I'd be. I could definitely give mixing, arrangement, production, songwriting tips. The only problem being how much of the original artist would shine through. I tend to hear things a certain way and want them done in that fashion. Maybe that's the mark of a good producer? Or a tyrannical musical dictator!

GregB · November 3, 2022

I know that I've bombarded John with "great ideas" to help advance the SOngstuff cause, but it's too easy to be influenced by one's own mindset and therefore incorrectly second-guess what others actually WANT, so ...

1) Perhaps a series of anonymous POLLS would help to independently identify the hive mind?

2) I believe the KEY ISSUE is the general lack of participation. A specific Poll on this might help reveal the reasons. (Are the majority of members shy, disinterested, or is the website interface an issue?)

3) A simple and generalised "this is what Songstuff is about" was done six months ago ... it's only had 67 views!!
(Perhaps link to this when there are no paid advert blocks in use?)

4) Sometimes one has to accept that things are what they are. Songstuff is active. Sure, a few members are far more active than others, but this is true of every club/organisation I've even been part of.

Greg

john · November 3, 2022

Hey

An interesting development of the topic and not wholly too far away from the entire reason for the topic. I wanted to see if there is any interest and then discuss plans and goals... being the first step in helping people. There's a lot here to come back to, some of which goes along with my thinking, others which there are options about.

12 hours ago, VoiceEx said:

You know, for a very long time I have been hearing an interesting argument about this place, from all sorts of members (past members included). That argument being, is that Songstuff is a great place, but its suffering from an "identity crisis" of sorts. The gist of that argument being, that SF is "stuck" in between trying to cater to DYI artists, and between trying to cater to Pros.

I find this interesting. I'd be interested to know how and why? The site hasn't changed its attitude in that regard for more than 20 years. We have always had a mix of pro & amateur and almost entirely "indie". The header says "Supporting Independent Music". Elsewhere on the site, it says "supporting independent music since 2000". Non-indies are welcome, but they are a teeny-tiny minority.

Indie just means "independent". You can be a full pro indie. You can be signed to a major (not indie) and be getting state benefits (amateur). You can be a full pro & DIY. You can be semi-pro and not DIY. The two things just don't go hand in hand.

Add to that, musicians, artists, songwriters are often in flux. On the way up they typically become increasingly pro and sometimes non-DIY and sometimes they stay DIY, on the way down they become increasingly less successful... some become amateur musicians, some always stay semi-pro and some stay pro. Often they become more DIY as budgets shrink.

What we offer in terms of features (boards, articles, topics) is not unusual in either environment. In terms of supporting members, it's the same fundamentals (like critique boards and discussion boards) as it ever was. In terms of helping indie amateurs and indie pros.... it is almost identical. The primary difference is the viability of making money from their music. If they want anything... both want more listeners. Both want more fans. I don't really see there being any difference, because it is a sliding line.

For example, we almost all start at being full-time employed doing something else and amateur home players.

As soon as you accept money for a gig you are effectively semi-pro

As soon as you accept money for a download? semi-pro. If you accept money for anything relating to your music... Semi-pro.

At some point your income might totally come from music, or at least your living expenses are covered. At that point, you are effectively a pro.

You can have one or many income streams, it makes no difference.

So.... Songstuff has an identity crisis? Well, we have to support DIY. The site is covered in DIY stuff. Currently, we offer zero pro services. We don't point people at pro services. What do we do? We encourage people who want more fans, want more listeners etc, to get more fans, get more listeners. If you want to grow past a certain point it takes some expenditure. If you want to cover that out of your pocket, that is fine. If you want to recoup it from your music, then you need to put stuff in place to make that happen.

Do any of our regulars see it as an identity crisis? No one has ever said this to me. If they had I would have asked them why they felt that way? It's a crisis that doesn't make any sense.

So here in a nutshell is the mission:

Are you a songwriter, musician, artist or producer? Would you like to improve your music? Then we can help. Would you like to improve what you can do with your music once it is recorded? Then we can help.

Do we cater to independent musicians? Yes. Absolutely.

Do we cater to DIY musicians? Yes. Absolutely.

Do we cater to pro musicians? Yes. They need very similar things to amateurs.

Do we cater to Major artists? Yes... at least you can do many aspects of being an artist here that are common to majors, indies, amateurs, and pros. We don't offer any major-level pro services at this time.

Honestly, for the members saying this (and I can't imagine there are many... though the few may have loud voices, I don't know, I haven't heard them!) I would say point me to the source of your confusion and I can clear it right up.

john · November 3, 2022

I like the essential core idea you put forward @VoiceEx. To me it’s a partnership. There is a level of partnership with the members we directly work with but there is also a partnership between the site and all members. I will address the general partnership between all active members and Songstuff outside of this topic.

Essentially we work together. In fact I would go beyond Songstuff and individual members working together, although that needs to happen. As a group, participating members and Songstuff staff, need to work together. We want members to achieve their goals. We want you to be happy with achievements and to be impressed. We want you to gain confidence and to establish good working practices. We want you to realise your potential… whatever that is.

We also want you to have realistic expectations. This is not about dreams and snake oil. This is not about Songstuff waving a magic wand

If you are content with where you are at, great. This is not for you. If you are willing to try, if you are willing to work to improve the current response your music releases, then let’s talk.

One thing I will mention, @VoiceEx you said about this not costing a penny (in terms of the Artist budget)… that depends entirely upon your personal goals. If you have more aggressive goals and shorter timescales…. doing it without spending a penny on your promotion might not be possible.

25 minutes ago, VoiceEx said:

As I mentioned, the argument in question does not represent my personal sentiments and beliefs.

Absolutely. I didn’t take it that way. Not even remotely.

john · November 3, 2022

I will post some more, but it’s late and I have to move! Lol

john · November 4, 2022

:backtotopic:

john · November 5, 2022

21 minutes ago, VoiceEx said:

I couldn't agree more 👍 Which is why venturing outside the realms of the forum, in a modern way and with the right people, was the core of my suggestion!

When I said that my idea wouldn't cost a penny (for Songstuff and its members), I was referring to the minimal technical aspects required to pull off the sort of real-time documentation I was talking about. It could be done by using free tools and free Streaming services. That's what I meant.

Essentially, the same approximate strategy and tactics can be used free or paid… though some are very limited. For example, we might have an advertising strategy that can to a degree be realised using free social posts and forum posts… but the tactics would be different and more expansive if you have available budget. That is life! Still, the same principles apply to both.

On 11/1/2022 at 2:05 PM, john said:

Hi

As a songwriter, what are your options? What can YOU do with YOUR songs?

For example... what is your plan (or was) for approaching music publishers? What is your plans for demos? Do you plan to release songs as an artist? What about end goals? Do you want other artists to perform your songs? Do you plan to release an original and then pitch the song? Do you intend going after production companies as your main priority?

Although I started this topic here for general discussion, if anyone wants to explore their options, plans and tactics, we can perhaps start individual topics and workshop your plans? It has to be better than working on them on your own. It's a good chance to sanity check your music plan.

Cheers

John

Can anyone answer any of these?

Karhala · November 5, 2022

Hello good people! ❤️

Well, I see there is a history and context to this thread, so I will write in parts.

Being a brand new user, I apologize. If I do not quote your comments directly, I will speak in a general manner.

And the last thing, English isn't my first language, so sorry if I don't speak/understand properly, I'm trying my finest

First of all, let's talk about @john's topic:

I'm about to talk about my plans and goals. Well, the origin of my passion for this world was when I started playing bass. I wanted to be in a traditional rockstar band, but not just to get girls and money. The main thing was music, and being able to eat because of it. I was (and still am) so ignorant that I thought that the only way to achieve this was the rockstar plan. I started a band and we made a few songs, an EP, and did a few concerts. When I was 16-17 years old (now I'm 23), we disbanded the group. As a result, I have studied every day, since I was 18, to improve my skills and knowledge. I quit university and now I'm studying sound engineering. Sorry if I slack my pitch, my brain isn't linear. So I was talking about how I learned that there are too many ways to be able to earn money through music and sound. I learned that you can survive without money too. This sounds ridiculous in these times, but yes, you can. I came from a place where there were a few communities. I don't know how to describe it in English, but it was like a serious hippie cult, so I knew I could do whatever I wanted with my life. I didn't have to do anything I didn't want to. I don't like to be prepotent, but let's say that I'm competent. This is just because of the hours I have put into this and people say that I'm an intelligent person, li learn fast. And this summer I started working on live sound events but I quit. There are too many possibilities in this industry and live sound is the Sparta of audio engineering.

Well, I have talked too much. I wanted to say a couple of things more but let's talk about the present and the future.

In this industry, I want to do many things. Therefore, sometimes I get a bit crazy because I can't commit 100% to one project. I'm an organized, constant person, so I persevere, and I don't give up on stuff. Therefore, I finish my tasks maybe 1/6 faster than if I only focused on one thing. But somehow, I like that. I need many stimuli like a TDAH person, so that's how my brain works.

Currently, I work two/three days a week on this, but I want to try to invert more time, but I have many other responsibilities (studies, family, friends, girlfriend, relaxing, escaping to the outside world, etc.).

So, finally (sorry) let's talk about the real shit:

FUTURE:

- One of my dreams has always been to create a multidisciplinary art space, where you can do everything you want, meet your friends, drink beers and that stuff, visit and contract music labels, play instruments with people, paint your things, sculture, have meetings, food, carpentry,... like an artistic association but with doors open. Unfortunately, this would be the last goal because I would need a lot of money and contacts to accomplish it.

- Another of my dreams is to form a modern music Orquesta, a giant professional band that can play anything, very similar to Snarky Puppy but more expansive and with more complex genres. Imagine a concert where the same band plays reggae, jazz, hip-hop, punk... whatever and creates impossible songs by blending genres and textures. This idea makes me horny hahaha

- Have my music lab and discography

- A sound engineer from my music lab and discography

- Create content for Youtube and that stuff (didactical and a documentary of sound processing, the industry, meeting bands, working, my free time,... like just putting a camera all day and recording all the things including my shit like meeting friends and making like mini-movies with subtitles)

- Create samples

- Recording, mixing, mastering and producing.

- Selling beats

- Artist Mentor

- Create plugins

- Sound classes

- I'd love to create an app for connecting creators like this (Songstuff, I didn't know this existed) so they can collaborate, talk, learn, showcase portfolios, hire, etc.

NOW:

- My band is talented, but I don't believe it's committed enough. It seems like this situation follows me everywhere. I always play the role of leader and things explode over time. I find it upsetting to be angry with people because of stupid things. I don't want to eat the s*** of someone else just because I am the only one with initiative. I don't even have children of my ownIt is for this reason that I founded Songstuff, I searched for a platform that offers autonomy, you know, you are here because you want to be, I don't have to play the role of the dad and I don't have to know everything and be the person with all those tools, just looking for people more on my level in this little-giant world of sound.

I make content for the Internet. I haven't released anything yet, but I am working on my first video. It won't be like that mini-movie, it will be more commercial. I'm making a sample pack from a mango and I just hit it with objects and I have a couple of kicks, snares, melodies, 808,... from it. So funny and tedious to do haha

- I want to do the project I posted in this forum. I just jammed a sketch for @Stewart Schmidt today. If anyone wants to join you are invited.

- I'm preparing my ''music brand'' to start posting. I have my portfolio, I ordered a logo from a designer friend, an intro for the videos, accounts, social media, etc.

- I study sound engineering, industry, etc. Every day.

- After I post my first video and complete my ''music brand'', I will advertise on the internet and in my town (strategic sites, like music shops, and these kinds of musical places) to produce, mix, record, etc.

- I will post my beats then too (youtube,...) and I have to create accounts on beats platforms to sell them (I'm planning to do private selling too, I have redacted contracts and that stuff)

- I will first produce, but as I gain more experience, contacts, and knowledge of the industry, I can mentor and manage artists.

- I'm creating ''plugins'' in patcher (fl studio) and I want to post them too

- I'm planning to put an advertisement on the internet and in my town too to do online classes about sound engineering and music production when I post the first video (now I'm focused on the video, it's the first domino piece)

Now, speaking of what @VoiceEx said:

I cannot imagine the format of the idea. But talking about the position of a new member, I think the interface of the forum is very user-friendly. The only thing that confuses me is the constant chat notifications. They show you ''there are 2 people connected'' instead of ''X sent a message''. In general, I feel like this place gives off a very positive, healthy vibration. It seems like many people here love this world, which is admirable to acknowledge. I had a very positive reception here and I would like to contribute and build many things here. It may have a lot of ghost members, but if there are a few continuously active ones, it shouldn't die out. And I have to say that I have seen quality content here. Thinking about it it would be helpful if you could have a place on your profile like a wall of your contributions, portfolio, and that stuff. This would enable you to manage your collaborations and projects. I don't know how to express the idea properly sorry. I use Notion for everything. I don't know if you're familiar with it, but it's a pretty cool app. You can organize/customize everything with collaboration tools. Maybe a hybrid of this with the forum would be a very visual/iconic way to work here with a very intuitive workflow.

Well guys that's all for today!

I like this forum. Whatever you want, I will be here

Salute! ❤️

Karhala · November 5, 2022

8 minutes ago, Karhala said:

Hello good people! ❤️

Well, I see there is a history and context to this thread, so I will write in parts.

Being a brand new user, I apologize. If I do not quote your comments directly, I will speak in a general manner.

And the last thing, English isn't my first language, so sorry if I don't speak/understand properly, I'm trying my finest

First of all, let's talk about @john's topic:

I'm about to talk about my plans and goals. Well, the origin of my passion for this world was when I started playing bass. I wanted to be in a traditional rockstar band, but not just to get girls and money. The main thing was music, and being able to eat because of it. I was (and still am) so ignorant that I thought that the only way to achieve this was the rockstar plan. I started a band and we made a few songs, an EP, and did a few concerts. When I was 16-17 years old (now I'm 23), we disbanded the group. As a result, I have studied every day, since I was 18, to improve my skills and knowledge. I quit university and now I'm studying sound engineering. Sorry if I slack my pitch, my brain isn't linear. So I was talking about how I learned that there are too many ways to be able to earn money through music and sound. I learned that you can survive without money too. This sounds ridiculous in these times, but yes, you can. I came from a place where there were a few communities. I don't know how to describe it in English, but it was like a serious hippie cult, so I knew I could do whatever I wanted with my life. I didn't have to do anything I didn't want to. I don't like to be prepotent, but let's say that I'm competent. This is just because of the hours I have put into this and people say that I'm an intelligent person, li learn fast. And this summer I started working on live sound events but I quit. There are too many possibilities in this industry and live sound is the Sparta of audio engineering.

Well, I have talked too much. I wanted to say a couple of things more but let's talk about the present and the future.

In this industry, I want to do many things. Therefore, sometimes I get a bit crazy because I can't commit 100% to one project. I'm an organized, constant person, so I persevere, and I don't give up on stuff. Therefore, I finish my tasks maybe 1/6 faster than if I only focused on one thing. But somehow, I like that. I need many stimuli like a TDAH person, so that's how my brain works.

Currently, I work two/three days a week on this, but I want to try to invert more time, but I have many other responsibilities (studies, family, friends, girlfriend, relaxing, escaping to the outside world, etc.).

So, finally (sorry) let's talk about the real shit:

FUTURE:

- One of my dreams has always been to create a multidisciplinary art space, where you can do everything you want, meet your friends, drink beers and that stuff, visit and contract music labels, play instruments with people, paint your things, sculture, have meetings, food, carpentry,... like an artistic association but with doors open. Unfortunately, this would be the last goal because I would need a lot of money and contacts to accomplish it.

- Another of my dreams is to form a modern music Orquesta, a giant professional band that can play anything, very similar to Snarky Puppy but more expansive and with more complex genres. Imagine a concert where the same band plays reggae, jazz, hip-hop, punk... whatever and creates impossible songs by blending genres and textures. This idea makes me horny hahaha

- Have my music lab and discography

- A sound engineer from my music lab and discography

- Create content for Youtube and that stuff (didactical and a documentary of sound processing, the industry, meeting bands, working, my free time,... like just putting a camera all day and recording all the things including my shit like meeting friends and making like mini-movies with subtitles)

- Create samples

- Recording, mixing, mastering and producing.

- Selling beats

- Artist Mentor

- Create plugins

- Sound classes

- I'd love to create an app for connecting creators like this (Songstuff, I didn't know this existed) so they can collaborate, talk, learn, showcase portfolios, hire, etc.

NOW:

- My band is talented, but I don't believe it's committed enough. It seems like this situation follows me everywhere. I always play the role of leader and things explode over time. I find it upsetting to be angry with people because of stupid things. I don't want to eat the s*** of someone else just because I am the only one with initiative. I don't even have children of my ownIt is for this reason that I founded Songstuff, I searched for a platform that offers autonomy, you know, you are here because you want to be, I don't have to play the role of the dad and I don't have to know everything and be the person with all those tools, just looking for people more on my level in this little-giant world of sound.

I make content for the Internet. I haven't released anything yet, but I am working on my first video. It won't be like that mini-movie, it will be more commercial. I'm making a sample pack from a mango and I just hit it with objects and I have a couple of kicks, snares, melodies, 808,... from it. So funny and tedious to do haha

- I want to do the project I posted in this forum. I just jammed a sketch for @Stewart Schmidt today. If anyone wants to join you are invited.

- I'm preparing my ''music brand'' to start posting. I have my portfolio, I ordered a logo from a designer friend, an intro for the videos, accounts, social media, etc.

- I study sound engineering, industry, etc. Every day.

- After I post my first video and complete my ''music brand'', I will advertise on the internet and in my town (strategic sites, like music shops, and these kinds of musical places) to produce, mix, record, etc.

- I will post my beats then too (youtube,...) and I have to create accounts on beats platforms to sell them (I'm planning to do private selling too, I have redacted contracts and that stuff)

- I will first produce, but as I gain more experience, contacts, and knowledge of the industry, I can mentor and manage artists.

- I'm creating ''plugins'' in patcher (fl studio) and I want to post them too

- I'm planning to put an advertisement on the internet and in my town too to do online classes about sound engineering and music production when I post the first video (now I'm focused on the video, it's the first domino piece)

Now, speaking of what @VoiceEx said:

I cannot imagine the format of the idea. But talking about the position of a new member, I think the interface of the forum is very user-friendly. The only thing that confuses me is the constant chat notifications. They show you ''there are 2 people connected'' instead of ''X sent a message''. In general, I feel like this place gives off a very positive, healthy vibration. It seems like many people here love this world, which is admirable to acknowledge. I had a very positive reception here and I would like to contribute and build many things here. It may have a lot of ghost members, but if there are a few continuously active ones, it shouldn't die out. And I have to say that I have seen quality content here. Thinking about it it would be helpful if you could have a place on your profile like a wall of your contributions, portfolio, and that stuff. This would enable you to manage your collaborations and projects. I don't know how to express the idea properly sorry. I use Notion for everything. I don't know if you're familiar with it, but it's a pretty cool app. You can organize/customize everything with collaboration tools. Maybe a hybrid of this with the forum would be a very visual/iconic way to work here with a very intuitive workflow.

Well guys that's all for today!

I like this forum. Whatever you want, I will be here

Salute! ❤️

Oh wow i just read this and it sounds bad hahaha It seems like im angry or something but nah im very chill with my situation right now, i like what im doing and my attitude. I putted the message in a grammar corrector and it f*cked up the meaning of the small talk but you can understanding the main things hahaha.

Whatever love and peace guys! ❤️

Karhala · November 5, 2022

The last thing! I'm going to answer the questions:

As a songwriter, what are your options?

Well, fortunately I can write and produce my own songs. I have to work on my exposition to the public and work hard to introduce me on the circuit. But there are too many options depending on your goals (you can make songs for advertising, movies, series, radio, theatre, for other artists,...) depending on the goal you have modify the focus for your tasks and that stuff.

What can YOU do with YOUR songs?

Well, distribute them, i would like to do concerts again too.

What is your plan (or was) for approaching music publishers?

I can do it by my own, pay distrokid or something similar.

What is your plans for demos?

Same, by my own.

Do you plan to release songs as an artist?

Yees

What about end goals?

My goals are which i mentioned before, talking about the artist life, i'm not searching for being a star or something like that, just do my shit, more for me and the people i love than anything else

Do you want other artists to perform your songs?

If we are talking about covers, why not. If we ar talking to be the ''writer on the shadow'' nope, i personally don't like that world.

Do you plan to release an original and then pitch the song?

Nope (i think that pitch is like position the song?)

But if i want to be famous and that this kind of tasks are very very very important

Do you intend going after production companies as your main priority?

No i want to be my own production company. Of course i don't have the same repercution as Warner for example but i want to do a independent project for young bands and non-comercial artists

john · November 5, 2022

2 hours ago, Karhala said:

The last thing! I'm going to answer the questions:

As a songwriter, what are your options?

Well, fortunately I can write and produce my own songs. I have to work on my exposition to the public and work hard to introduce me on the circuit. But there are too many options depending on your goals (you can make songs for advertising, movies, series, radio, theatre, for other artists,...) depending on the goal you have modify the focus for your tasks and that stuff.

What can YOU do with YOUR songs?

Well, distribute them, i would like to do concerts again too.

What is your plan (or was) for approaching music publishers?

I can do it by my own, pay distrokid or something similar.

What is your plans for demos?

Same, by my own.

Do you plan to release songs as an artist?

Yees

What about end goals?

My goals are which i mentioned before, talking about the artist life, i'm not searching for being a star or something like that, just do my shit, more for me and the people i love than anything else

Do you want other artists to perform your songs?

If we are talking about covers, why not. If we ar talking to be the ''writer on the shadow'' nope, i personally don't like that world.

Do you plan to release an original and then pitch the song?

Nope (i think that pitch is like position the song?)

But if i want to be famous and that this kind of tasks are very very very important

Do you intend going after production companies as your main priority?

No i want to be my own production company. Of course i don't have the same repercution as Warner for example but i want to do a independent project for young bands and non-comercial artists

Perfect!

TheGarageJump · November 6, 2022

Thanks for posting this topic John....Where is this thing going next? Such a unique environment. From my own perspective, when I set out putting the songs together, that was not in my mind. I just felt lucky and privileged to be doing this in the first place. I appreciate the mention TheGarageJump got from yourself, VoiceEx and the spirit behind a collective effort and have enjoyed reading all the other comments. Going back to your original post John, to answer the questions - approach publishers/ release songs - I am (deliberately) pretty clueless about this. My theory is that it is not too difficult to publish songs, that is why I rarely read about the nuts and bolts of it. I would be interested in finding out more about music publishing from people here. Ideally, I would like to earn a few bob from the music (to cover the purchase cost of my synth and guitar😁) and am ambitious for my songs. I have the confidence (not the ego) to consider whether or not others would stream or download GarageJump stuff. A genuine curiosity. Distrokid seems to be an option (happy to listen to others' experiences re same)- keeping the YouTube channel for experimental music. Distrokid mention that when the songs are posted, they are 'published'. I am interpreting that as the same as the songs being published on YouTube, would that be accurate? Or do this change re this when there is potentially income involved? I may have burnt exclusivity bridges already by posting the songs on YouTube....big deal.....Demos - that's all my songs are. Other than the ones which have been 'produced'/ enhanced by others. It would be great to have someone to produce and there is a lot of sound quality specialism on Songstuff. Without a decent song, there is little to produce, let's not forget that. I would love to be more skilful in that area...all takes time. Other artists - It doesn't need to be me singing. Of course. I am taking it that Kev and Solaria don't count🤣 - see 'Happy Vibes' for reference. Pitching songs/ Production companies- Maybe an inevitability in this game, though it sounds terrible. Handing over control of your creative life to someone. This is what people are writing this year. Really. I'm not sure I need that in my life. No one cares more about my songs than I do. It would be great to find out what all these elements are....and then do it all myself. I have read so many music horror stories, so this makes me want to tread carefully here. Like you said John, a sanity check. Enjoy what's left of your weekend everyone.

Karhala · November 6, 2022

12 hours ago, VoiceEx said:

Don't worry about it! Your doing fine! I thought your reply was fantastic and in line with the context! Your positive attitude is exactly why I looked into some of your comments on the forum, prior to pinging you here. Welcome abroad Alberto! 👍

Thank you! ❤️

Really appreciate that.

Salute!

Karhala · November 6, 2022

49 minutes ago, TheGarageJump said:

Thanks for posting this topic John....Where is this thing going next? Such a unique environment. From my own perspective, when I set out putting the songs together, that was not in my mind. I just felt lucky and privileged to be doing this in the first place. I appreciate the mention TheGarageJump got from yourself, VoiceEx and the spirit behind a collective effort and have enjoyed reading all the other comments. Going back to your original post John, to answer the questions - approach publishers/ release songs - I am (deliberately) pretty clueless about this. My theory is that it is not too difficult to publish songs, that is why I rarely read about the nuts and bolts of it. I would be interested in finding out more about music publishing from people here. Ideally, I would like to earn a few bob from the music (to cover the purchase cost of my synth and guitar😁) and am ambitious for my songs. I have the confidence (not the ego) to consider whether or not others would stream or download GarageJump stuff. A genuine curiosity. Distrokid seems to be an option (happy to listen to others' experiences re same)- keeping the YouTube channel for experimental music. Distrokid mention that when the songs are posted, they are 'published'. I am interpreting that as the same as the songs being published on YouTube, would that be accurate? Or do this change re this when there is potentially income involved? I may have burnt exclusivity bridges already by posting the songs on YouTube....big deal.....Demos - that's all my songs are. Other than the ones which have been 'produced'/ enhanced by others. It would be great to have someone to produce and there is a lot of sound quality specialism on Songstuff. Without a decent song, there is little to produce, let's not forget that. I would love to be more skilful in that area...all takes time. Other artists - It doesn't need to be me singing. Of course. I am taking it that Kev and Solaria don't count🤣 - see 'Happy Vibes' for reference. Pitching songs/ Production companies- Maybe an inevitability in this game, though it sounds terrible. Handing over control of your creative life to someone. This is what people are writing this year. Really. I'm not sure I need that in my life. No one cares more about my songs than I do. It would be great to find out what all these elements are....and then do it all myself. I have read so many music horror stories, so this makes me want to tread carefully here. Like you said John, a sanity check. Enjoy what's left of your weekend everyone.

Hello!

If I understand you well, my opinion is that this world is an industry, like any other (technology, hospitality, etc.).

So it's good if you want to learn and achieve many goals (as I do, I like to be a musician, an engineer,...)

BUT It's impossible to encompass all the roles of the industry, you must trust other professionals, and if it helps you, reputation exists. So if someone does a bad job or has malicious intentions, you will notice it.

Here is an example of what I'm talking about that you can appreciate more directly as a musician:

If you have a band, you know that you are the specialist in your instrument (let's say guitar) so you catch this role. But your other members are much better than you at their instruments, so you must trust your drummer, on your bassist,... because you know they are BETTER than you in their ''area'' and they can do much better work in less time than if you have to do those drums, that bass line,... And this process liberates you of tedious sh*t so you can focus more to improve your main work, play the guitar.

Well now think about this but with the role of a designer (logos), visual artist (album illustrations), web creator,...

They all are better than you in that, so just trust them, pay them for their work and you are going to notice that everything is better, you have a better portfolio and you can focus on your main work, the web creator isn't going to play the guitar of your group, so let them do the work that doesn't go with you.

So you can project this thought to other areas of the industry, like a lawyer, distributors,...

I want to learn everything about the industry and apply it, that's why I root my tasks but I could be more efficient if I focused on my main work. But I do this because of pleasant, however, I have learned this thought I'm telling you right now this year, and now I'm trusting in other professionals, friends that are better than me, etc and you are creating an economy and professional relations too, both wins.

For example, I just ordered a designer to make my logo and an intro for the videos, because it's not my especially

Now this designer wants me to work on the sound of his projects too, and I can be recommended by him too

So we all can do a better portfolio, improve our main role and make professional relations.

So now I'm more selective with my task, however, I still do thousand of different things, but I like that hehe

Salute! ❤️

TheGarageJump · November 6, 2022

Thank you for your comments Karhala and for reading mine.....I totally realise that I can't do it all. Maybe I should have put up a smiley emoji after that particular comment. I have difficulty trusting people....I have seen so many agendas....and been let down so many times.....and although not world weary.....I am not surprised by very much now. This is so my problem to resolve. I am not blinded by ambition and am a pretty realistic guy.

TheGarageJump · November 6, 2022

One other comment. Pretty good insights Karhala, cheers. Reminded me that I paid a guy on Fiverr for some GarageJump artwork. You can find that on 'Public Opinion' on TheGarageJump YouTube channel - let me know what you think please. (I will refrain from posting the link here, that would be crass) That went pretty well. Especially since I have a problem with parting with money....btw that has nothing to do with being Scottish😁

Reginald Bigsby · November 6, 2022

Well, I got "pinged" so I feel like I should respond. After reading through the thread, I'm convinced that I'm in a really different place with my music than most here. I'm old and have been writing songs, performing and recording for almost 60 years. Although I've had the good fortune to work with some high profile artists over the years, I've never had the ambition to promote myself. My satisfaction comes exclusively from the process of artistic creativity. If others appreciate what I've done, that's great, if not, that's okay too.

Because of this, I'm completely ignorant of how one would go about promoting their own music. I have no social media presence and my bandcamp website and YouTube channel are merely places that I use to archive my music. On the other hand, I really enjoy discussing songwriting and music production, and I feel my experience and knowledge in that area could be helpful to others, and I've tried to do that here on songstuff.

On a final note, I want to add that one of the main reasons I enjoy songstuff is being exposed to other songwriters' music. I've really enjoyed listening to the original music that DIY artists around the world are creating, and there are some terrific talents here.

Mahesh · November 6, 2022

I apologize for commenting on this topic in bits since there's so much of interesting discussions having already occurred and I have a lot to catch up on. (BTW, loved the ideas you've put forward @VoiceEx. It would be great to have bigger visibility of the strategies and approaches that the artists on here are using, however small or big and regardless of experience level! I think there's something to learn from every bit. )

Responding to John's original topic,

There's a lot of things going on in my music & professional life atm and I'm kinda struggling to keep a leash on it to keep it steady.

1. Rewire the Voice : Besides the vocal supervision and coaching I do every now and then within a studio environment, I currently am working with 15 singers in building their voice for their musical goals. This has been a huge undertaking and has kept me on a bottleneck in terms of time & energy. I'm constantly drained to do much else. So, I am working on opening up group lessons in a bid to save some hours in my usual workday. Thanks to @john & Songstuff, I will also be opening up limited slots for international students who maybe interested to work with me. We've also been working on a singing course and a whole bunch of Rewire products as part of Songstuff Vocal Coaching Academy.

Additionally, I'm moving to Mumbai in December for a couple months (from Bangalore, India) to be a guest faculty at a Film/Drama school. I've been a vocal coach / music teacher in schools before, but this is definitely going to be a new experience for me teaching non-musicians about music & the voice.

2. My Music

The move to Mumbai has come at an interesting time in my musical career. I am currently working on the upcoming record "Change". It's a big one for us at RC7 Records (Team Songstuff's indie label) since it involves a huge team of musicians, many collaborations & an artist grant backing it courtesy of The Bombay Jazz Club.

During my aforementioned stay in Mumbai, I hope to spend a lot of time in the studio producing & recording. The record will come out next year so we are currently working on the release plan and marketing strategies for the same. Out of the 5 main songs on the record, I've made 3 pre-production demos with minimal instrumentation. 2 more to go. I've used Reaper and a whole bunch of free VSTi's for this pursuit and they've served me greatly. These demos will act as a starting point within the studio environment and to the musicians as we record the EP/album.

3. Songstuff

It's quite unbelievable the number of things we've been working away on in the background. From forum upgrades and features to new products and services - I am not going to be able to list them all here. John has talked about some of these upcoming plans on here but it goes without saying and I speak for myself when I say - it is a LOT of work. Like a mind-numbingly huge f*cking amount of work.

There's a lot that we can do with the power of community. But without an infrastructure and an ecosystem that can help the community nourish itself, things can die quickly. And so, we've been spending many hours and a lot of energy and resources putting all of it together.

Atm, it's only myself, Peggy and John taking care of everything that exists on Songstuff and everything that will in the future. It can be a handful. We're just as indie & comes with it the same old working class struggles and challenges.

So, it may take a lil bit of time, but I'm excited for all that is in store for Songstuff!