Plans and Goals

[john]

 

Hi

 

As a songwriter, what  are your options? What can YOU do with YOUR songs?

 

For example... what is your plan (or was) for approaching music publishers? What is your plans for demos? Do you plan to release songs as an artist? What about end goals? Do you want other artists to perform your songs? Do you plan to release an original and then pitch the song? Do you intend going after production companies as your main priority?

 

Although I started this topic here for general discussion, if anyone wants to explore their options, plans and tactics, we can perhaps start individual topics and workshop your plans? It has to be better than working on them on your own. It's a good chance to sanity check your music plan.

 

Cheers

 

John

[VoiceEx]

@john This is a fantastic topic and I would like to make a suggestion that might be related to it. Though keep in mind, Its.. errmm.. a bit unorthodox, and I'm not sure if its possible. So, if I'm speaking nonsense here, please bare with me! 😅

 

For the sake of convenience and providing context, I will simplify the general idea by using some of my own experiences in online forums, in hopes that this might encourage more people to pitch in and further this discussion.

 

Okay. So here's how this goes. I will also ping few existing members which I think might be interested in at least viewing this topic. What? Its been a long time while since I bugged random people! 👍 @Mahesh @Peggy @GregB @Mora Amaro La Loba @Karhala @TheGarageJump @Reginald Bigsby @eclecticnosepicker @Stewart Schmidt

 

As you may already know, before I came to Songstuff I genuinely disliked general music forums. Practically every other community I checked out before signing up here, was either: completely useless for free members, plagued by parasites and scammers, had little-to-no staff involvement, or, in some extreme cases, I have even seen entire communities which were just straight up toxic (Admins included). I could go on, but you get the idea.

 

Now, thankfully, I think that SF has carefully nurtured an amazing community over the years, and it shows! Though before anyone starts jumping to conclusions, no, I'm not saying all of this to boost anyone's ego. Far from it. I think that despite all the great things this place has to offer, the majority of people just don't do anything with it.

 

So, in the spirit of the thread, I would like to suggest you guys do a small yet effective hands-on demonstration of what Songstuff can do for its members. And, no, I'm not suggesting something big or too elaborate. Something basic. More like, a "Sneak Peek Free Membership Model", which includes current community members. The idea is to present real-time coverage of how Songstuff can help its members, and in a approachable way. People like user friendly stuff.

 

So here's how my idea goes. It will seem a bit strange at first, but maybe there's something to it. And, yes, I will present this idea with financial considerations in mind. My suggesting can be done for free, include anyone, and present results with relatively minimal efforts. I am also going to compose this "pitch" in a realistic way, based on things which I have noticed that typically go on in forums (not just in SF).

 

The Initial premise of the presentation:

 

Realistically speaking, what most musicians have in common is their desire to have an audience (not to mention fans and supporters). So, if you guys will demonstrate how you take an actual DIY artist, with, lets say, 1-30 listeners (at best), and show publicly the documentation of you taught them to turn that into 5k+ effectively (with relative ease, without any party needing to spend money), and in a way that's easy to understand and is accessible for amateurs - than I believe that that would be a good selling point as a presentation for some of the benefits that Songstuff has to offer. Or, At the very least, it might get people's attention, and encourage people to want to reach out more, and take part in this community.

 

Think of it as like saying: "THIS is what Songstuff can do, and actively does for its free members. Can you show me another Forum that actually into that?". And if this presentation is done 'live' and on board, not through private messages, as something that everyone can see in here, than I think that would make for an interesting "free membership preview" which might also incentivize current members to start wanting to participate more, and bring their friends along.

 

I'm not sure if this is possible, since I haven't really seen this done anywhere else. Though here are a few suggestions on how you guys might be able to do that:

 

• Pick a few current members of the community which you believe might be interested in being featured in this sort of documentation / presentation (Possibly through conducting a survey or handing out a questioner). However, come up with a way that literally any registered member could apply and participate. You know, so that people won't get the impression that there's some kind of internal favoritism involved.

 

• Once you pick a several trust worthy candidates, assuming all parties are in agreement, than you could take it to the next level by having all parties Stream the progress, share their insights, and each party create their own logs and continues share their documentations, both as individuals, and as a collective. A sort of streaming collaboration, as it were. Than shove that in any and all Songstuff related content, media feeds, and you could slowly extend that to existing supporters which are a bit more established. Like Mahesh maybe, or whoever else.

 

• Speaking of which. While your doing that, you could also get more traction on the Youtube front through this. I mean, yeah, the playlists are great. However, its not as sexy as flexing how far Songstuff can take someone. Not to mention, it will also open the doors for pushing even more common social media things, Youtube shorts, TikTok, generating revenue (etc etc etc).

 

Anyway... this reply is much longer than I intended it to be, but I think that perhaps what I'm saying might help. I mean, at the very least, if forum members can see this sort of progress going on, and with members they actually know, it would I think potentially encourage more members to participate. I mean, think about it, if you tell people "Yeah lets put you on the UK list with a bunch of artists", its not the same as saying: "Check out this flex!" lol. That's just a joke, but you get what I mean.

 

Again - I don't know if this idea is feasible! I want to make that crystal clear! 🤐 I simply think that it would be cool if more people shared ideas together, and I hope that this sparks even more discussion about these topics!

Edited November 3, 2022 by VoiceEx

[eclecticnosepicker]

6 hours ago, VoiceEx said:

@john This is a fantastic topic and I would like to make a suggestion that might be related to it. Though keep in mind, Its.. errmm.. a bit unorthodox, and I'm not sure if its possible. So, if I'm speaking nonsense here, please bare with me! 😅

 

For the sake of convenience and providing context, I will simplify the general idea by using some of my own experiences in online forums, in hopes that this might encourage more people to pitch in and further this discussion.

 

Okay. So here's how this goes. I will also ping few existing members which I think might be interested in at least viewing this topic. What? Its been a long time while since I bugged random people! 👍 @Mahesh @Peggy @GregB @Mora Amaro La Loba @Karhala @TheGarageJump @Reginald Bigsby @eclecticnosepicker @Stewart Schmidt

 

As you may already know, before I came to Songstuff I genuinely disliked general music forums. Practically every other community I checked out before signing up here, was either: completely useless for free members, plagued by parasites and scammers, had little-to-no staff involvement, or, in some extreme cases, I have even seen entire communities which were just straight up toxic (Admins included). I could go on, but you get the idea.

 

Now, thankfully, I think that SF has carefully nurtured an amazing community over the years, and it shows! Though before anyone starts jumping to conclusions, no, I'm not saying all of this to boost anyone's ego. Far from it. I think that despite all the great things this place has to offer, the majority of people just don't do anything with it.

 

So, in the spirit of the thread, I would like to suggest you guys do a small yet effective hands-on demonstration of what Songstuff can do for its members. And, no, I'm not suggesting something big or too elaborate. Something basic. More like, a "Sneak Peek Free Membership Model", which includes current community members. The idea is to present real-time coverage of how Songstuff can help its members, and in a approachable way. People like user friendly stuff.

 

So here's how my idea goes. It will seem a bit strange at first, but maybe there's something to it. And, yes, I will present this idea with financial considerations in mind. My suggesting can be done for free, include anyone, and present results with relatively minimal efforts. I am also going to compose this "pitch" in a realistic way, based on things which I have noticed that typically go on in forums (not just in SF).

 

The Initial premise of the presentation:

 

Realistically speaking, what most musicians have in common is their desire to have an audience (not to mention fans and supporters). So, if you guys will demonstrate how you take an actual DIY artist, with, lets say, 1-30 listeners (at best), and show publicly the documentation of you taught them to turn that into 5k+ effectively (with relative ease, without any party needing to spend money), and in a way that's easy to understand and is accessible for amateurs - than I believe that that would be a good selling point as a presentation for some of the benefits that Songstuff has to offer. Or, At the very least, it might get people's attention, and encourage people to want to reach out more, and take part in this community.

 

Think of it as like saying: "THIS is what Songstuff can do, and actively does for its free members. Can you show me another Forum that actually into that?". And if this presentation is done 'live' and on board, not through private messages, as something that everyone can see in here, than I think that would make for an interesting "free membership preview" which might also incentivize current members to start wanting to participate more, and bring their friends along.

 

I'm not sure if this is possible, since I haven't really seen this done anywhere else. Though here are a few suggestions on how you guys might be able to do that:

 

• Pick a few current members of the community which you believe might be interested in being featured in this sort of documentation / presentation (Possibly through conducting a survey or handing out a questioner). However, come up with a way that literally any registered member could apply and participate. You know, so that people won't get the impression that there's some kind of internal favoritism involved.

 

• Once you pick a several trust worthy candidates, assuming all parties are in agreement, than you could take it to the next level by having all parties Stream the progress, share their insights, and each party create their own logs and continues share their documentations, both as individuals, and as a collective. A sort of streaming collaboration, as it were. Than shove that in any and all Songstuff related content, media feeds, and you could slowly extend that to existing supporters which are a bit more established. Like Mahesh maybe, or whoever else.

 

• Speaking of which. While your doing that, you could also get more traction on the Youtube front through this. I mean, yeah, the playlists are great. However, its not as sexy as flexing how far Songstuff can take someone. Not to mention, it will also open the doors for pushing even more common social media things, Youtube shorts, TikTok, generating revenue (etc etc etc).

 

Anyway... this reply is much longer than I intended it to be, but I think that perhaps what I'm saying might help. I mean, at the very least, if forum members can see this sort of progress going on, and with members they actually know, it would I think potentially encourage more members to participate. I mean, think about it, if you tell people "Yeah lets put you on the UK list with a bunch of artists", its not the same as saying: "Check out this flex!" lol. That's just a joke, but you get what I mean.

 

Again - I don't know if this idea is feasible! I want to make that crystal clear! 🤐 I simply think that it would be cool if more people shared ideas together, and I hope that this sparks even more discussion about these topics!

Although it's not been discussed publicly, I know we've talked and you know I can make pretty decent sounding rock productions. As far as helping burgeoning indie artists here, I don't know how much help I'd be. I could definitely give mixing, arrangement, production, songwriting tips. The only problem being how much of the original artist would shine through. I tend to hear things a certain way and want them done in that fashion. Maybe that's the mark of a good producer? Or a tyrannical musical dictator!

[VoiceEx]

@Stewart Schmidt I completely I agree with you about this forum being good. In fact, I consider it as being second to none. Which is exactly why I made this radical suggestion. Had I not believed in the staff or in the potential of this place, I would have not said a word. That is also the reason why I pinged active members to this thread. To see more opinions and to bring more attention to this discussion, as well as the topic itself. Which you have responded too. Though, would you have responded in this thread had I not pinged you? Who knows. "Plans and goals".

 

In fact, what you said about the The Music Marketing Critique area is one of the reasons why I was hoping to bring more attention to this sort of content. Not only to this thread, but also to @john overall content. You see, much like you, I too have observed what's going on in the forum. However, day in day out, I just keep seeing more of the same. A song here, a song there, an occasional mild discussion, and some great topics (old ones too) which I don't really see people looking too much into.

 

And its a shame because this place has a lot offer, and this is exactly why I wanted to suggest something radical that might shake things up a bit. You know, for a very long time I have been hearing an interesting argument about this place, from all sorts of members (past members included). That argument being, is that Songstuff is a great place, but its suffering from an "identity crisis" of sorts. The gist of that argument being, that SF is "stuck" in between trying to cater to DYI artists, and between trying to cater to Pros.

 

Now, whether or not there is merit to this argument, it got me thinking about. "What really drove those people from point A to Z". I'm sure that John would have an answer, and I have also heard counter arguments. Which is also why I focused my idea around a principle that might appeal to both sides, as one ("casuals" & Pros").

 

Forums are a great place to make connections and find out useful information, and much more. However, I wouldn't exactly consider forums as "sexy", if you get what I mean 😅

 

I mean, there's fantastic content in here and plenty of great people. But, lets face it, we need new blood. Fresh people, young people, positive energy, modern things, sexiness!

 

To put that in perspective,, I remember you told me about Music Banter. So I checked it out. And.. you know what was the first thing that went through my mind when I skimmed over that place?: "Man, that place is boring. An old fart here, a hobbyist there. Meh. Is that it? just another forum that has incredibly boring content".

 

Than I refreshed my memory by Googling more rated forums, just to see what's up these days. Needless to say, my opinion hasn't changed. And I don't want SF to become like the others. This place is different. Its better. So.. why not make it even more of an experience? That's what I'm saying, basically

[VoiceEx]

28 minutes ago, eclecticnosepicker said:

Although it's not been discussed publicly, I know we've talked and you know I can make pretty decent sounding rock productions. As far as helping burgeoning indie artists here, I don't know how much help I'd be. I could definitely give mixing, arrangement, production, songwriting tips. The only problem being how much of the original artist would shine through. I tend to hear things a certain way and want them done in that fashion. Maybe that's the mark of a good producer? Or a tyrannical musical dictator!

 

Dude, your stuff is awesome! Its fresh as hell, and I dig that And, like you said, I'm aware of your abilities. Perhaps you are also aware of mine. Either way, hell, I can't tell you how I WISH we had more rockers in here! Not kidding...

 

I'm sure that any sort of contribution from you would be fantastic. Not only as a producer, but also as a hands on musician. However, while I do in fact see you an being an excellent tyrannical dictator, whipping slaves into shape and showing people whose boss, my suggestion was not on those fronts. But rather, as you being a featured artist, one of several participants in this human experimentation I'm suggesting. If your a dictator, than I guess that would make me a mad scientist 😅

 

Either way, Id love to hear what more you have to say about these topics. I think you would make for a great coach, but I also think that you'd shine in the right spotlight. Hence why I suggested this idea, and mentioned you. Lets imagine that John gave his blessings to this crazy idea. Would you be into it?

[GregB]

I know that I've bombarded John with "great ideas" to help advance the SOngstuff cause, but it's too easy to be influenced by one's own mindset and therefore incorrectly second-guess what others actually WANT, so ...

 

1) Perhaps a series of anonymous POLLS would help to independently identify the hive mind?

 

2) I believe the KEY ISSUE is the general lack of participation.  A specific Poll on this might help reveal the reasons.  (Are the majority of members shy, disinterested, or is the website interface an issue?)

 

3) A simple and generalised "this is what Songstuff is about" was done six months ago ... it's only had 67 views!!
(Perhaps link to this when there are no paid advert blocks in use?)

 

 

4) Sometimes one has to accept that things are what they are.  Songstuff is active.  Sure, a few members are far more active than others, but this is true of every club/organisation I've even been part of.  

 

Greg

 

[john]

Hey

 

An interesting development of the topic and not wholly too far away from the entire reason for the topic. I wanted to see if there is any interest and then discuss plans and goals... being the first step in helping people. There's a lot here to come back to, some of which goes along with my thinking, others which there are options about.

 

12 hours ago, VoiceEx said:

You know, for a very long time I have been hearing an interesting argument about this place, from all sorts of members (past members included). That argument being, is that Songstuff is a great place, but its suffering from an "identity crisis" of sorts. The gist of that argument being, that SF is "stuck" in between trying to cater to DYI artists, and between trying to cater to Pros.

 

I find this interesting. I'd be interested to know how and why? The site hasn't changed its attitude in that regard for more than 20 years. We have always had a mix of pro & amateur and almost entirely "indie". The header says "Supporting Independent Music". Elsewhere on the site, it says "supporting independent music since 2000". Non-indies are welcome, but they are a teeny-tiny minority.

 

Indie just means "independent". You can be a full pro indie. You can be signed to a major (not indie) and be getting state benefits (amateur). You can be a full pro & DIY. You can be semi-pro and not DIY. The two things just don't go hand in hand.

 

Add to that, musicians, artists, songwriters are often in flux. On the way up they typically become increasingly pro and sometimes non-DIY and sometimes they stay DIY, on the way down they become increasingly less successful... some become amateur musicians, some always stay semi-pro and some stay pro. Often they become more DIY as budgets shrink.

 

What we offer in terms of features (boards, articles, topics) is not unusual in either environment. In terms of supporting members, it's the same fundamentals (like critique boards and discussion boards) as it ever was. In terms of helping indie amateurs and indie pros.... it is almost identical. The primary difference is the viability of making money from their music. If they want anything... both want more listeners. Both want more fans. I don't really see there being any difference, because it is a sliding line.

 

For example, we almost all start at being full-time employed doing something else and amateur home players.

 

As soon as you accept money for a gig you are effectively semi-pro

As soon as you accept money for a download? semi-pro. If you accept money for anything relating to your music... Semi-pro.

 

At some point your income might totally come from music, or at least your living expenses are covered. At that point, you are effectively a pro.

 

You can have one or many income streams, it makes no difference.

 

So.... Songstuff has an identity crisis? Well, we have to support DIY. The site is covered in DIY stuff. Currently, we offer zero pro services. We don't point people at pro services. What do we do? We encourage people who want more fans, want more listeners etc, to get more fans, get more listeners. If you want to grow past a certain point it takes some expenditure. If you want to cover that out of your pocket, that is fine. If you want to recoup it from your music, then you need to put stuff in place to make that happen.

 

Do any of our regulars see it as an identity crisis? No one has ever said this to me. If they had I would have asked them why they felt that way? It's a crisis that doesn't make any sense.

 

So here in a nutshell is the mission:

 

Are you a songwriter, musician, artist or producer? Would you like to improve your music? Then we can help. Would you like to improve what you can do with your music once it is recorded? Then we can help.

 

Do we cater to independent musicians? Yes. Absolutely.

 

Do we cater to DIY musicians? Yes. Absolutely.

 

Do we cater to pro musicians? Yes. They need very similar things to amateurs.

 

Do we cater to Major artists? Yes... at least you can do many aspects of being an artist here that are common to majors, indies, amateurs, and pros. We don't offer any major-level pro services at this time.

 

Honestly, for the members saying this (and I can't imagine there are many... though the few may have loud voices, I don't know, I haven't heard them!) I would say point me to the source of your confusion and I can clear it right up.

 

 

 

[VoiceEx]

5 hours ago, Stewart Schmidt said:

 

I'd say that it's more neurotic than tyrannical, but I see what you're saying, like a spotlight on one of the members of Songstuff.  That sounds pretty cool. 

 

Not exactly a spotlight, more like facilitating a hands-on real time documentation of Songstuff working with one (or several) community member (s) which is (or are) actually active. Doing that would give everyone (Not only registered users) an opportunity to see (in real-time) what Songstuff and @john can do for its members. However, as I mentioned earlier with my "sneak peek" comment, this would only be for a limited period of time (Could be for a week, a month, etc). Doing this documentation (or 'event') in a limited format would allow for an open-ended rotation of selected members. The same could also be said for your idea (having a community spotlight), which I believe is great, and definitely worth exploring!

 

The objective of my idea is pretty straightforward: Demonstrating irrefutable results (in 2022 and beyond), incentivizing active participation of current (but not limited too) registered members (while flexing on outsiders), increasing Songstuff's influence and presence as an actual workshop (not 'just' as a forum), slowly opening the door for more revenue opportunities (not only for SF, but also for the featured artists).

 

After all - this forum cannot run on 'good intentions' alone. That's one of the main reasons why I keep bringing up the 'limited time' thing.

 

What i'm talking about is essentially looking at the bigger picture: Facilitating a series of maintainable and controlled cycles of revolving featured artists. Or, perhaps a better way to put it, to create a kind of like a monthly/weekly 'playlist', but in documentation form. The same could also apply to your idea: Having a weekly/monthly spotlight for community members.

 

Either way I think its a win win.

 

[VoiceEx]

Hey @john! I saw you posting a link to this topic on the Mini-chat thing, so I wanted to bring more attention to it, being as these are very important topics. I hope that was alright 😅

 

20 minutes ago, john said:

I find this interesting. I'd be interested to know how and why? The site hasn't changed its attitude in that regard for more than 20 years. We have always had a mix of pro & amateur and almost entirely "indie". The header says "Supporting Independent Music". Elsewhere on the site, it says "supporting independent music since 2000". Non-indies are welcome, but they are a teeny-tiny minority.

 

As I mentioned, the argument in question does not represent my personal sentiments and beliefs. It is merely something that had been brought to my attention a few times, so I have used it as leniency to provide further context to my suggestions. Nothing more, nothing less. There is no confusion on my end. There never was 👍

 

That being said, since your interested, I can try to 'echo' the logic behind some of those arguments, without 'outing' anyone particular in here. Honestly, its not really important, but sure I'll tell you in private!

 

[john]

I like the essential core idea you put forward @VoiceEx. To me it’s a partnership. There is a level of partnership with the members we directly work with but there is also a partnership between the site and all members. I will address the general partnership between all active members and Songstuff outside of this topic.

 

Essentially we work together. In fact I would go beyond Songstuff and individual members working together, although that needs to happen. As a group, participating members and Songstuff staff, need to work together. We want members to achieve their goals. We want you to be happy with achievements and to be impressed. We want you to gain confidence and to establish good working practices. We want you to realise your potential… whatever that is.
 

We also want you to have realistic expectations. This is not about dreams and snake oil. This is not about Songstuff waving a magic wand

 

If you are content with where you are at, great. This is not for you. If you are willing to try, if you are willing to work to improve the current response your music releases, then let’s talk.

 

One thing I will mention, @VoiceEx you said about this not costing a penny (in terms of the Artist budget)… that depends entirely upon your personal goals. If you have more aggressive goals and shorter timescales…. doing it without spending a penny on your promotion might not be possible.

 

25 minutes ago, VoiceEx said:

As I mentioned, the argument in question does not represent my personal sentiments and beliefs.

Absolutely. I didn’t take it that way. Not even remotely.

[john]

I will post some more, but it’s late and I have to move! Lol

[VoiceEx]

3 minutes ago, john said:

I will post some more, but it’s late and I have to move! Lol

 

No worries! I also sent you a PM to clear things up 😅

[john]

[VoiceEx]

On 11/4/2022 at 1:19 AM, john said:

Essentially we work together. In fact I would go beyond Songstuff and individual members working together, although that needs to happen. As a group, participating members and Songstuff staff, need to work together. We want members to achieve their goals. We want you to be happy with achievements and to be impressed. We want you to gain confidence and to establish good working practices. We want you to realise your potential… whatever that is.

 

 I couldn't agree more 👍 Which is why venturing outside the realms of the forum, in a modern way and with the right people, was the core of my suggestion!

 

On 11/4/2022 at 1:19 AM, john said:

One thing I will mention, @VoiceEx you said about this not costing a penny (in terms of the Artist budget)… that depends entirely upon your personal goals. If you have more aggressive goals and shorter timescales…. doing it without spending a penny on your promotion might not be possible.

 

When I said that my idea wouldn't cost a penny (for Songstuff and its members), I was referring to the minimal technical aspects required to pull off the sort of real-time documentation I was talking about. It could be done by using free tools and free Streaming services. That's what I meant.

Edited November 5, 2022 by VoiceEx

[john]

21 minutes ago, VoiceEx said:

 

 I couldn't agree more 👍 Which is why venturing outside the realms of the forum, in a modern way and with the right people, was the core of my suggestion!

 

 

When I said that my idea wouldn't cost a penny (for Songstuff and its members), I was referring to the minimal technical aspects required to pull off the sort of real-time documentation I was talking about. It could be done by using free tools and free Streaming services. That's what I meant.

Essentially, the same approximate strategy and tactics can be used free or paid… though some are very limited. For example, we might have an advertising strategy that can to a degree be realised using free social posts and forum posts… but the tactics would be different and more expansive if you have available budget. That is life! Still, the same principles apply to both.

 

On 11/1/2022 at 2:05 PM, john said:

 

Hi

 

As a songwriter, what  are your options? What can YOU do with YOUR songs?

 

For example... what is your plan (or was) for approaching music publishers? What is your plans for demos? Do you plan to release songs as an artist? What about end goals? Do you want other artists to perform your songs? Do you plan to release an original and then pitch the song? Do you intend going after production companies as your main priority?

 

Although I started this topic here for general discussion, if anyone wants to explore their options, plans and tactics, we can perhaps start individual topics and workshop your plans? It has to be better than working on them on your own. It's a good chance to sanity check your music plan.

 

Cheers

 

John

 

Can anyone answer any of these?

[Karhala]

Hello good people! ❤️

 

Well, I see there is a history and context to this thread, so I will write in parts.

Being a brand new user, I apologize. If I do not quote your comments directly, I will speak in a general manner.

And the last thing, English isn't my first language, so sorry if I don't speak/understand properly, I'm trying my finest

 

First of all, let's talk about @john's topic:

 

I'm about to talk about my plans and goals. Well, the origin of my passion for this world was when I started playing bass. I wanted to be in a traditional rockstar band, but not just to get girls and money. The main thing was music, and being able to eat because of it. I was (and still am) so ignorant that I thought that the only way to achieve this was the rockstar plan. I started a band and we made a few songs, an EP, and did a few concerts. When I was 16-17 years old (now I'm 23), we disbanded the group. As a result, I have studied every day, since I was 18, to improve my skills and knowledge. I quit university and now I'm studying sound engineering. Sorry if I slack my pitch, my brain isn't linear. So I was talking about how I learned that there are too many ways to be able to earn money through music and sound. I learned that you can survive without money too. This sounds ridiculous in these times, but yes, you can. I came from a place where there were a few communities. I don't know how to describe it in English, but it was like a serious hippie cult, so I knew I could do whatever I wanted with my life. I didn't have to do anything I didn't want to. I don't like to be prepotent, but let's say that I'm competent. This is just because of the hours I have put into this and people say that I'm an intelligent person, li learn fast. And this summer I started working on live sound events but I quit. There are too many possibilities in this industry and live sound is the Sparta of audio engineering. 

 

Well, I have talked too much. I wanted to say a couple of things more but let's talk about the present and the future.

In this industry, I want to do many things. Therefore, sometimes I get a bit crazy because I can't commit 100% to one project. I'm an organized, constant person, so I persevere, and I don't give up on stuff. Therefore, I finish my tasks maybe 1/6 faster than if I only focused on one thing. But somehow, I like that. I need many stimuli like a TDAH person, so that's how my brain works.

 

Currently, I work two/three days a week on this, but I want to try to invert more time, but I have many other responsibilities (studies, family, friends, girlfriend, relaxing, escaping to the outside world, etc.).

So, finally (sorry) let's talk about the real shit:

 

FUTURE:

 

- One of my dreams has always been to create a multidisciplinary art space, where you can do everything you want, meet your friends, drink beers and that stuff, visit and contract music labels, play instruments with people, paint your things, sculture, have meetings, food, carpentry,... like an artistic association but with doors open. Unfortunately, this would be the last goal because I would need a lot of money and contacts to accomplish it.

 

- Another of my dreams is to form a modern music Orquesta, a giant professional band that can play anything, very similar to Snarky Puppy but more expansive and with more complex genres. Imagine a concert where the same band plays reggae, jazz, hip-hop, punk... whatever and creates impossible songs by blending genres and textures. This idea makes me horny hahaha

 

- Have my music lab and discography

 

- A sound engineer from my music lab and discography

 

- Create content for Youtube and that stuff (didactical and a documentary of sound processing, the industry, meeting bands, working, my free time,... like just putting a camera all day and recording all the things including my shit like meeting friends and making like mini-movies with subtitles) 

 

- Create samples

 

- Recording, mixing, mastering and producing.

 

- Selling beats

 

- Artist Mentor

 

- Create plugins

 

- Sound classes

 

- I'd love to create an app for connecting creators like this (Songstuff, I didn't know this existed) so they can collaborate, talk, learn, showcase portfolios, hire, etc.

 

NOW:

 

- My band is talented, but I don't believe it's committed enough. It seems like this situation follows me everywhere. I always play the role of leader and things explode over time. I find it upsetting to be angry with people because of stupid things. I don't want to eat the s*** of someone else just because I am the only one with initiative. I don't even have children of my ownIt is for this reason that I founded Songstuff, I searched for a platform that offers autonomy, you know, you are here because you want to be, I don't have to play the role of the dad and I don't have to know everything and be the person with all those tools, just looking for people more on my level in this little-giant world of sound.

I make content for the Internet. I haven't released anything yet, but I am working on my first video. It won't be like that mini-movie, it will be more commercial. I'm making a sample pack from a mango and I just hit it with objects and I have a couple of kicks, snares, melodies, 808,... from it. So funny and tedious to do haha

 

- I want to do the project I posted in this forum. I just jammed a sketch for @Stewart Schmidt today. If anyone wants to join you are invited.

 

- I'm preparing my ''music brand'' to start posting. I have my portfolio, I ordered a logo from a designer friend, an intro for the videos, accounts, social media, etc.

 

- I study sound engineering, industry, etc. Every day.

 

- After I post my first video and complete my ''music brand'', I will advertise on the internet and in my town (strategic sites, like music shops, and these kinds of musical places) to produce, mix, record, etc.

 

- I will post my beats then too (youtube,...) and I have to create accounts on beats platforms to sell them (I'm planning to do private selling too, I have redacted contracts and that stuff)

 

- I will first produce, but as I gain more experience, contacts, and knowledge of the industry, I can mentor and manage artists.

 

- I'm creating ''plugins'' in patcher (fl studio) and I want to post them too

 

- I'm planning to put an advertisement on the internet and in my town too to do online classes about sound engineering and music production when I post the first video (now I'm focused on the video, it's the first domino piece)

 

Now, speaking of what @VoiceEx said:

 

I cannot imagine the format of the idea. But talking about the position of a new member, I think the interface of the forum is very user-friendly. The only thing that confuses me is the constant chat notifications. They show you ''there are 2 people connected'' instead of ''X sent a message''. In general, I feel like this place gives off a very positive, healthy vibration. It seems like many people here love this world, which is admirable to acknowledge. I had a very positive reception here and I would like to contribute and build many things here. It may have a lot of ghost members, but if there are a few continuously active ones, it shouldn't die out. And I have to say that I have seen quality content here. Thinking about it it would be helpful if you could have a place on your profile like a wall of your contributions, portfolio, and that stuff. This would enable you to manage your collaborations and projects. I don't know how to express the idea properly sorry. I use Notion for everything. I don't know if you're familiar with it, but it's a pretty cool app. You can organize/customize everything with collaboration tools. Maybe a hybrid of this with the forum would be a very visual/iconic way to work here with a very intuitive workflow.

 

Well guys that's all for today! 

 

I like this forum. Whatever you want, I will be here

 

Salute! ❤️

 

 

 

 

[Karhala]

8 minutes ago, Karhala said:

 

Hello good people! ❤️

 

Well, I see there is a history and context to this thread, so I will write in parts.

Being a brand new user, I apologize. If I do not quote your comments directly, I will speak in a general manner.

And the last thing, English isn't my first language, so sorry if I don't speak/understand properly, I'm trying my finest

 

First of all, let's talk about @john's topic:

 

I'm about to talk about my plans and goals. Well, the origin of my passion for this world was when I started playing bass. I wanted to be in a traditional rockstar band, but not just to get girls and money. The main thing was music, and being able to eat because of it. I was (and still am) so ignorant that I thought that the only way to achieve this was the rockstar plan. I started a band and we made a few songs, an EP, and did a few concerts. When I was 16-17 years old (now I'm 23), we disbanded the group. As a result, I have studied every day, since I was 18, to improve my skills and knowledge. I quit university and now I'm studying sound engineering. Sorry if I slack my pitch, my brain isn't linear. So I was talking about how I learned that there are too many ways to be able to earn money through music and sound. I learned that you can survive without money too. This sounds ridiculous in these times, but yes, you can. I came from a place where there were a few communities. I don't know how to describe it in English, but it was like a serious hippie cult, so I knew I could do whatever I wanted with my life. I didn't have to do anything I didn't want to. I don't like to be prepotent, but let's say that I'm competent. This is just because of the hours I have put into this and people say that I'm an intelligent person, li learn fast. And this summer I started working on live sound events but I quit. There are too many possibilities in this industry and live sound is the Sparta of audio engineering. 

 

Well, I have talked too much. I wanted to say a couple of things more but let's talk about the present and the future.

In this industry, I want to do many things. Therefore, sometimes I get a bit crazy because I can't commit 100% to one project. I'm an organized, constant person, so I persevere, and I don't give up on stuff. Therefore, I finish my tasks maybe 1/6 faster than if I only focused on one thing. But somehow, I like that. I need many stimuli like a TDAH person, so that's how my brain works.

 

Currently, I work two/three days a week on this, but I want to try to invert more time, but I have many other responsibilities (studies, family, friends, girlfriend, relaxing, escaping to the outside world, etc.).

So, finally (sorry) let's talk about the real shit:

 

FUTURE:

 

- One of my dreams has always been to create a multidisciplinary art space, where you can do everything you want, meet your friends, drink beers and that stuff, visit and contract music labels, play instruments with people, paint your things, sculture, have meetings, food, carpentry,... like an artistic association but with doors open. Unfortunately, this would be the last goal because I would need a lot of money and contacts to accomplish it.

 

- Another of my dreams is to form a modern music Orquesta, a giant professional band that can play anything, very similar to Snarky Puppy but more expansive and with more complex genres. Imagine a concert where the same band plays reggae, jazz, hip-hop, punk... whatever and creates impossible songs by blending genres and textures. This idea makes me horny hahaha

 

- Have my music lab and discography

 

- A sound engineer from my music lab and discography

 

- Create content for Youtube and that stuff (didactical and a documentary of sound processing, the industry, meeting bands, working, my free time,... like just putting a camera all day and recording all the things including my shit like meeting friends and making like mini-movies with subtitles) 

 

- Create samples

 

- Recording, mixing, mastering and producing.

 

- Selling beats

 

- Artist Mentor

 

- Create plugins

 

- Sound classes

 

- I'd love to create an app for connecting creators like this (Songstuff, I didn't know this existed) so they can collaborate, talk, learn, showcase portfolios, hire, etc.

 

NOW:

 

- My band is talented, but I don't believe it's committed enough. It seems like this situation follows me everywhere. I always play the role of leader and things explode over time. I find it upsetting to be angry with people because of stupid things. I don't want to eat the s*** of someone else just because I am the only one with initiative. I don't even have children of my ownIt is for this reason that I founded Songstuff, I searched for a platform that offers autonomy, you know, you are here because you want to be, I don't have to play the role of the dad and I don't have to know everything and be the person with all those tools, just looking for people more on my level in this little-giant world of sound.

I make content for the Internet. I haven't released anything yet, but I am working on my first video. It won't be like that mini-movie, it will be more commercial. I'm making a sample pack from a mango and I just hit it with objects and I have a couple of kicks, snares, melodies, 808,... from it. So funny and tedious to do haha

 

- I want to do the project I posted in this forum. I just jammed a sketch for @Stewart Schmidt today. If anyone wants to join you are invited.

 

- I'm preparing my ''music brand'' to start posting. I have my portfolio, I ordered a logo from a designer friend, an intro for the videos, accounts, social media, etc.

 

- I study sound engineering, industry, etc. Every day.

 

- After I post my first video and complete my ''music brand'', I will advertise on the internet and in my town (strategic sites, like music shops, and these kinds of musical places) to produce, mix, record, etc.

 

- I will post my beats then too (youtube,...) and I have to create accounts on beats platforms to sell them (I'm planning to do private selling too, I have redacted contracts and that stuff)

 

- I will first produce, but as I gain more experience, contacts, and knowledge of the industry, I can mentor and manage artists.

 

- I'm creating ''plugins'' in patcher (fl studio) and I want to post them too

 

- I'm planning to put an advertisement on the internet and in my town too to do online classes about sound engineering and music production when I post the first video (now I'm focused on the video, it's the first domino piece)

 

Now, speaking of what @VoiceEx said:

 

I cannot imagine the format of the idea. But talking about the position of a new member, I think the interface of the forum is very user-friendly. The only thing that confuses me is the constant chat notifications. They show you ''there are 2 people connected'' instead of ''X sent a message''. In general, I feel like this place gives off a very positive, healthy vibration. It seems like many people here love this world, which is admirable to acknowledge. I had a very positive reception here and I would like to contribute and build many things here. It may have a lot of ghost members, but if there are a few continuously active ones, it shouldn't die out. And I have to say that I have seen quality content here. Thinking about it it would be helpful if you could have a place on your profile like a wall of your contributions, portfolio, and that stuff. This would enable you to manage your collaborations and projects. I don't know how to express the idea properly sorry. I use Notion for everything. I don't know if you're familiar with it, but it's a pretty cool app. You can organize/customize everything with collaboration tools. Maybe a hybrid of this with the forum would be a very visual/iconic way to work here with a very intuitive workflow.

 

Well guys that's all for today! 

 

I like this forum. Whatever you want, I will be here

 

Salute! ❤️

 

 

 

 

 

Oh wow i just read this and it sounds bad hahaha It seems like im angry or something but nah im very chill with my situation right now, i like what im doing and my attitude. I putted the message in a grammar corrector and it f*cked up the meaning of the small talk but you can understanding the main things hahaha.

 

Whatever love and peace guys! ❤️ 

[Karhala]

The last thing! I'm going to answer the questions:

 

As a songwriter, what  are your options?

 

Well, fortunately I can write and produce my own songs. I have to work on my exposition to the public and work hard to introduce me on the circuit. But there are too many options depending on your goals (you can make songs for advertising, movies, series, radio, theatre, for other artists,...) depending on the goal you have modify the focus for your tasks and that stuff.

 

What can YOU do with YOUR songs?

 

Well, distribute them, i would like to do concerts again too.

 

What is your plan (or was) for approaching music publishers?

 

I can do it by my own, pay distrokid or something similar.

 

What is your plans for demos?

 

Same, by my own.

 

Do you plan to release songs as an artist?

 

Yees  

 

What about end goals?

 

My goals are which i mentioned before, talking about the artist life, i'm not searching for being a star or something like that, just do my shit, more for me and the people i love than anything else

 

Do you want other artists to perform your songs?

 

If we are talking about covers, why not. If we ar talking to be the ''writer on the shadow'' nope, i personally don't like that world.

 

Do you plan to release an original and then pitch the song?

 

Nope (i think that pitch is like position the song?) 

But if i want to be famous and that this kind of tasks are very very very important

 

Do you intend going after production companies as your main priority?

 

No  i want to be my own production company. Of course i don't have the same repercution as Warner for example but i want to do a independent project for young bands and non-comercial artists

[john]

2 hours ago, Karhala said:

The last thing! I'm going to answer the questions:

 

As a songwriter, what  are your options?

 

Well, fortunately I can write and produce my own songs. I have to work on my exposition to the public and work hard to introduce me on the circuit. But there are too many options depending on your goals (you can make songs for advertising, movies, series, radio, theatre, for other artists,...) depending on the goal you have modify the focus for your tasks and that stuff.

 

What can YOU do with YOUR songs?

 

Well, distribute them, i would like to do concerts again too.

 

What is your plan (or was) for approaching music publishers?

 

I can do it by my own, pay distrokid or something similar.

 

What is your plans for demos?

 

Same, by my own.

 

Do you plan to release songs as an artist?

 

Yees  

 

What about end goals?

 

My goals are which i mentioned before, talking about the artist life, i'm not searching for being a star or something like that, just do my shit, more for me and the people i love than anything else

 

Do you want other artists to perform your songs?

 

If we are talking about covers, why not. If we ar talking to be the ''writer on the shadow'' nope, i personally don't like that world.

 

Do you plan to release an original and then pitch the song?

 

Nope (i think that pitch is like position the song?) 

But if i want to be famous and that this kind of tasks are very very very important

 

Do you intend going after production companies as your main priority?

 

No  i want to be my own production company. Of course i don't have the same repercution as Warner for example but i want to do a independent project for young bands and non-comercial artists

Perfect!

[VoiceEx]

4 hours ago, john said:

Essentially, the same approximate strategy and tactics can be used free or paid… though some are very limited. For example, we might have an advertising strategy that can to a degree be realised using free social posts and forum posts… but the tactics would be different and more expansive if you have available budget. That is life! Still, the same principles apply to both.

 

Yeah every advertising strategy has a paid version. Of course. Though I wanted to bring up an idea which can be done for free. Which would make life easier both for Songstuff, but also for the willing participants. That is also one of the reasons my suggestion was based around a limited time format, a preview of Songstuff's workshop capabilities. Instead of, lets say, starting and maintaining an ongoing Youtube/Twitch/Podcast series (etc). I wanted to come up with a demonstration that literally any chosen community member could take part in, without having to worry about reaching into their pockets.

 

Its just an idea of course, but think about it. A free experiment might not be as efficient as a paid one, but pulling that off successfully is also a demonstration in of itself. Its a "flex", and a powerful one at that. One which could potentially turn into a string of multiple partnerships, and even serve as a fundraiser. Which would lead to even more options.

 

4 hours ago, john said:

 

Can anyone answer any of these?

 

I have submitted a vote and I was planning on responding there tomorrow 👍 though yeah my own personal goals have not been stated in this thread. I can get on that too. Though granted I'm sure that you already know that there are certain details I would not discuss in a public format.