Writing a song

[john]

Hey

What way do you find most productive to start writing a song? Do you start with a song concept? Do you start with lyrics? Melody? Rhythm?

For me I find varying my approach very useful, but the most common way I write is with a guitar or keyboard, and a basic idea of a chord progression and some melodic ideas I've been mucking about with as individual riffs. This helps form the basic song concept and give direction for the song.

Do you have a common way of developing your original idea?

Once I have a concept of what the song really has to say, and a way to say it, I find that the development of the song is pretty straight forward. I put together a draft structure, with the main motifs etc. placed in a way that makes sense to me.

At what point do you start recording?

I used to wait until the song was completely written and arranged before I went anywhere near recording it. Now I tend to start recording at the draft stage above, although I'm begining to record earlier and earlier in the writing process to the extent that I have some riffs etc recorded and ready for expanding upon in a recording environment. Sure I've experimented with this over the years, but it's now edging into the earliest stage in song composition.

Anyhoo, I'd be interested to get some details on what you guys do, and how you do it...

Cheers

John

[Rudi]

What way do you find most productive to start writing a song? Do you start with a song concept? Do you start with lyrics? Melody? Rhythm?

Any of those. If its melody it will be a single phrase. Developing this can be a trial: so many options! Rhythm will take care of itself most of the time, though may need a final arragement before its done.

If its Rhythm, this can be easy, laying something on top will be chords usually. Its just another route of assembling the structure. In both cases, the lyric will occur last.

If it is lyrics to kick off, I start with an invocation to the muse. If I get help, I get text down pretty quick. If not, I struggle endlessly. Either melody of rhythm can grow from there.

Do you have a common way of developing your original idea?

If adding something to a lyric, a phrase is helpful, as its an intuitive idea with elements of melody & time within in. These days I try to fingerpick a rhythm quite often, so melodic accompaniment is served by the chords. One common method I have for thinking of chord progression is to find a half tone interval common to all the possible chords in the pattern. This interval will feature in the final melody as well.

At what point do you start recording?

I dont.

Edited March 29, 2006 by Rudi

[Kievien]

What way do you find most productive to start writing a song? Do you start with a song concept? Do you start with lyrics? Melody? Rhythm?

I always start building on the lyrics...since most people memorize that (next to the guitar , at least i do )

Do you have a common way of developing your original idea?

Nope... Usual the idea developes itself over time... Patience is the keyword

At what point do you start recording?

When Ive got EVERYTHING in my mind... I dont start at something i know is never gonna work

Edited March 29, 2006 by Kievien

[Alistair]

What way do you find most productive to start writing a song? Do you start with a song concept? Do you start with lyrics? Melody? Rhythm?

Sometimes it's a snatch of a lyric which may or may not become the title of the song e.g

"Outside it was colder than a serial killer's stare" I thought that was a great opening line to a song but it took me 2 months to develop it into 'Parking Lot In LA'. Sometimes it's a summarising idea which I then flesh out and the idea might become the hook or the title (latest idea, not quite finished, is 'Born Yesterday' which was a prototype Box of Goats album title). Sometimes I just start singing as I play and see what comes out. I hardly ever write the lyrics first though.

Do you have a common way of developing your original idea?

No....my most fluent moments are walking around when I don't have a means of capturing the idea. Pateince is indeed the key word the rest of the time.

At what point do you start recording?

Hardly ever. I hate the recording process though I like the result. I generally leave that to Nick Blair these days who has a knack for it and enjoys it (thanks, Nick)

[Prometheus]

What way do you find most productive to start writing a song? Do you start with a song concept? Do you start with lyrics? Melody? Rhythm?

I tend to start with a chord progression or a melody and then take it from there... Being that I am primarily a bass player, I tend to find I end up doing a fair amount of melodic breaks on the bass guitar. I cannot write lyrics to save my life, but fortunately have maintained contact with other people who are good at handling that side of things.

I actually use my multitrack recorder to write songs, adding in hooks and harmonies experimentally as I go along. The disadvantage to this approach is that the results can sometimes be difficult to replicate in a live setting...

Do you have a common way of developing your original idea?

Yes, I always fall back on the same approach, record a basic backing track and then layer harmonies and counterpoint on it... I've sen some of my songs ending up with twenty or thirty guitar tracks alone, some obviously submerged in the mix and merely there to give the recording some texture. The advantage here is the plasticity of this approach. Often a song does not end up having the soundscape I origianlly imagined, as unforeseen ideas and improvements can occur at any stage...

At what point do you start recording?

Right From the very beginning, man...

Edited April 6, 2006 by Prometheus

[john]

anyone else?

[merciful evans]

What way do you find most productive to start writing a song? Do you start with a song concept? Do you start with lyrics? Melody? Rhythm?

1/ lyrics

2/ rhythm

3/ melody

4/ chords

Do you have a common way of developing your original idea?

1/ brain dump,

2/ edit

3/ research (google) this means checking dates, facts, details of subject matter. it can take hours

4/ go back to 1 & 2 then finish

At what point do you start recording?

i dont know how to

Edited October 27, 2006 by merciful evans

[Ki_the_artist]

What way do you find most productive to start writing a song? Do you start with a song concept? Do you start with lyrics? Melody? Rhythm?

Most of the time I start with melody, then rhythm, and lyrics.

Do you have a common way of developing your original idea?

I'm better at coming up with hooks first and then building everything else around that. Sometimes I get a first verse and then I have to come up with the hook and the rest of the song. The hardest thing for me are second verses.

At what point do you start recording?

As soon as I get an idea because if I don't then I may forget it. I even have one of those little voice recorders just in case I get an idea when I'm not at home.

[Donna]

What way do you find most productive to start writing a song? Do you start with a song concept? Do you start with lyrics? Melody? Rhythm?

It varies, but lately, it begins with an image, or a feeling to convey, so in a sense there is a concept, but also it's detective work - finding the song. In the past the lyric was usually first and as I wrote, the rythym and melody would come.

Do you have a common way of developing your original idea?

Yes, by simply playing it things often develop. Also, by playing it, it becomes familiar and development can come into one's head while simply going about the day.

At what point do you start recording?

Almost immediately. Thank goodness for blasters with built in mics!

[tgrover]

What way do you find most productive to start writing a song? Do you start with a song concept? Do you start with lyrics? Melody? Rhythm?

Generally i just sit down play the guitar and see what comes out. I never really head into song writing with the idea in my head of what it will end up as. Occasionaly i will write a piece based on whether i want it to be up beat or down beat etc depending on where this song will appear on the album. I recently wrote the last song on the album full well know that i was writing it for that pupporse. Only time i have ever done that though.

Do you have a common way of developing your original idea?

For me i record once i have got say three or four parts ready. I lay the drums down and put down the acoustic guitar from start to finish. Its at this point where a song may end up going fully rocking out or stay as just acoustic. On many of my recordings the originally recorded acoustic never made it to the mix. so something that starts as just something soft has ended up being a full rock song.

At what point do you start recording?

I am lucky enough to have a lot of resources available to me to create very pro sounding 'demos' in my room. Because of this i take advantage of it. So like i say once i have the parts in my head created i can start recording straight away. Drums go down. mic up the acoustics get them recored. Record bass. At this point i pick up the telecaster and take the song away from just an acoustic song. Vocals all come once this is finished. The scary thing about this is thinking how i used to do it......write a song and not record it for months if at all.... i generally record work fast now just so i dont forget my ideas. If i lost this way of working that i am used to now i would struggle i think to produce any tunes. The technology has moulded my way of working!

[Steve]

The technology has moulded my way of working!

That's an interesting point! I remember I used to just pick up my accoustic and write. Had to remember everything. When I finaly got hold of a 4 track, my writing changed considerably. I would spend hours programming the drum machine and writing the parts out on manusript in the relevant bars. Now with the computer, I write differently again! Never really thought about it before...

[Donna]

Steve, thought provoking post.

Maybe if we're ever stuck, a change in the writing process might get things moving again. Maybe we'd be best off writing with a certain method-technology according to seasons in life or mood.

Maybe one reason I'm happy not using the pc is because the writing method-tech has pretty much been the same since day one.

[Mark]

Lately I've been having songs randomly spring out of my head out nowhere while I'm sitting in the kitchen listening to the TV. I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the fact that I've had my music playing in a nearby room every time this has happened.

I can't really explain it, but I've just been sitting there, eating my breakfast/lunch/dinner and listening to the news/football game/car commercial/sound of my parents/sister complaining when suddenly a short soundbyte of vocal melody and maybe a bass note or a root note of a chord floats into the room over the sound of the chatter that I have tuned out. Somehow my brain takes that note asnd says "What if I went to this note, over this chord. This can develop into a semi-complete song in my head with hardly any effort, and that sounds nothing like what the actually song I heard. Unfortunately I'm not usually in a position to run and get my guitar and write the song, but its still pretty cool.

Does anyone know why this might happen?

My theory is that my brain, which until this point has not been paying any attention to the music, does not know what beat the song is on and therefore automatically assumes that this is the first beat of a measure. Thus it cannot recognize what its hearing. This combined with the fact that I'm hearing one or two notes, hardly enough enough to identify what key the song is in gives my brain a lot of musical freedom. It then extrapolates so that the song emphasizes that beat.

Regardless, could be an interesting songwriting approach. Playing a brief clip of a song that isn't the first beat while you're watching tv so that you only hear one or two notes and then writing as if what you heard was beat one.

[Nightwolf]

so do you use Chord Studio exclusively or do you play as well?

[Steve]

What a very useful tool Chord studio is!

[Nightwolf]

What a very useful tool Chord studio is!

I thought it was way cool

[Lazz]

What a very useful tool Chord studio is!

I've been trying to look at this for days now and keep getting a 'gateway time-out'.

Anyone know what's going on ?

[Steve]

Yep. I'm getting the same! Lauren?

[Lazz]

It's ok now - I got through.

A neat tool alright - shame it's so limited.

It says on one page "Need to play a GMaj9 but don't know how?" yet it doesn't seem to offer the freedom to add such alterations or extensions to any of the voicings. They all seem just simple triadic forms of either majoe or minor. Neither does there seem a chance of modulating to new tonal area - cos you just can't change keys within a piece.

Band-In-A-Box is so much more usefully complete.

Anybody here mess around with it ?

[Nightwolf]

Let's resurrect this topic and bring it back to john's first list:

1. What way do you find most productive to start writing a song? Do you start with a song concept? Do you start with lyrics? Melody? Rhythm?

2. Do you have a common way of developing your original idea?

3.At what point do you start recording?