Thumb Position

[Donna]

Hey all~

I've become very interested in thumb position. Just want to say what I'm trying and would appreciate others' experience or suggestions on this.

I don't know if it was my grade school training on string bass or what, but I'd had it in my head that the thumb should be quite extended, stationary for the most part, and at about the middle of the back of the neck. But didn't realize I'd had that 'rule of thumb' literally til recently.

This position kills after awhile on an acoustic guitar. I began wondering is it necessary to do it this way?

Never understood how r -n- r guys can have that thumb wrapped around the neck, close to the E string, or maybe fretting the E w/ the thumb, for all I know! I cannot stretch my fingers to do barre's on the A string, for one, wiff that thumb position (ie C barre chord beginning at 3rd fret)

But I have been experimenting w/ bending the thumb, kinda wrapping it around the neck and so on while doing scales. Blessed relief, that! I have to remind myself to bend it, and to move the thumb position up the neck.

I'm esp. interested in maybe how long it took some of you to master the position of barre chords on the A string, and is your thumb extended and placed on the back of the neck or what? Ditto for putting even the index finger to fret two or more strings at the same time, like if you were doing a run with hammer/pull offs.

Thank ye.

[Nightwolf]

I switch back and forth, not sure when or why, maybe I'll look into it tonight to see when I use what position.

[Steve]

I put my thumb where it's comfortable. Sometimes that means wrapping it right around to either fret on the low E string or more often to 'Damp' the Low E. When I used to practice for speed, I would place my thumb at the back of the neck. I know that having the thumb placed central behind the neck is supposed to aid with fretting because your hand naturaly curls around the neck more and the fingers come down on the fret board more verticaly. If you watch any classical guitarists, they play with the thumb in this position.

[Donna]

Steve~ yeah, that makes sense, the classical poisition lending greater ease to vertical fingering.

Nightwolf ~ I'm glad you said that. I was figuring some people hadn't took note of thumb position. I'll be interested to find out your observations.

BTW, I have this odd and wonderful guitar book my son picked up somewhere. In it is a picture of a little girl, about eight, playing a full size acoustic, plus a few pictures of her demo-ing chords. It really is inspiring - "if she can do it..." Anyway, the author is mostly classical and jazz. There are a zillion chords illustrated and I think that's where I first noticed the bent thumb in some pics.

[john]

Hey,

if I am play in the first 5 frets area my thumb moves roughly in a line across the back of the neck roughly corresponding to just behind the second fret. Starting with the tip of my thumb at roughly level with the 5th string when I am playing on the high E and B strings, to the tip of my thumb level with the center line when playing on the low E and A. I find this is a small enough movement, and it still acts as an effective reference and allows me to have good finger position on the strings.

That said, if I were playing a strummy guitar piece, or some Hendrix, I find my thumb tends to hang around the edge of the neck, near the low E at a point roughly level with the 2nd fret. This allows me to play some bass notes with my thumb, or apply a mute, and I can easily slide round the neck a pit if I go into something less chordal.

Cheers

John

[Donna]

if I am play in the first 5 frets area my thumb moves roughly in a line across the back of the neck roughly corresponding to just behind the second fret. Starting with the tip of my thumb at roughly level with the 5th string when I am playing on the high E and B strings, to the tip of my thumb level with the center line when playing on the low E and A. I find this is a small enough movement, and it still acts as an effective reference and allows me to have good finger position on the strings.

John...center line meaning?

Also, hadn't thought of the thumb as being a reference point, makes sense.

[john]

imaginary center line down the length of the neck at the back.

[FinnArild]

For classical stuff or solos, I usually have it center-back like John. For rock'n roll and acoustics it's different. If I do a barre chord: F for instance, my thumb is layed out flat on the back. For other chords I have the thumb free and rest the back of the neck into the wedge between my thumb and pointing finger.

[Nick]

I have to say it is something I never think about - my thumb goes where it wants to. I fret quite a lot of notes with my thumb on the bottom E string when finger picking and it moves around depending on what chords I'm playing. Most of the time it wanders from somewhere near the centre of the neck to sticking over the edge of the guitar. For full barre chords I always understood it best to put the thumb directly under the barreing finger to get an even and adequate pressure (as a complete aside though I can play full barre chords without buzzes with only fingers on the front of the guitar and no thumb or hand touching the back of the guitar at all - but it is a fairly pointless exercise! Try it though and you'll realise how little pressure you need to play them)

I was learning a new thing today and thought I'd take note of where my thumb naturally goes - I reckon it's like this. It's a bluesy/jazzy thing by a guy called Pete Ryder called Nat Schapiro's Time that really like and I pluck/finger pick it

My thumb seems to pretty much be straight all the time

Slide up to -

5x665x - thumb under 5th fret almost touching the 1st finger on the bottom string

5x665x slide to xx554x back to 5x665x - thumb moves back probably 2 frets and up again and moves slightly towards centre of neck but not fully and then back to original position

6x567x - thumb moves forward to under 6th fret and more central

777777 - thumb bang under the 7th fret in centre of guitar

777777 slide down to 666666 then up to 777777 - thumb as above and follows

Slide up to 076700 - thumb not touching guitar to add a touch of vibrato

0x999(9) to 0x888x to 0x777(7) - top notes not played; small barre with little finger down; thumb under 5th/6th fret in centre of guitar

07655x - thumb under 5th fret but almost at the edge of the guitar towards the bottom string

5x665x - thumb under 5th fret almost touching the 1st finger on the bottom string

224232 - thumb right under the barre in centre of guitar

020100 -> 0x0110 - thumb under 1st fret but almost at the edge of the guitar towards the bottom string

I think it's a bit like balancing. You just sort of do it without thinking and the thumb knows by instinct and practice where to go to apply the right sort of pressure to balance the fingers on the front of the guitar. Trying to explain it seems infinitely more difficult than doing it

I may be doing it totally wrong of course!

[Steve]

I may be doing it totally wrong of course!

You're doing it all wrong Nick!

[Nick]

You're doing it all wrong Nick!

Hmm. I'm just trying to think of a better place to stick my thumb...

[john]

[Donna]

Hi you guys!

Thanks for chiming in every one, it's helpful. I continue to experiment w/ thumb position. Nick, that breakdown is really cool.

And I find it hopeful that's it's possible to use the thumb for fretting. Maybe not this season anyway, for me. It's just so weird to use digits at all, in this way. I had some deft drum teachers and myself too, you'd realize after a point that the fingers did play a big part in drumming. But the stick itself wielded strength.

Oh! Little progress here. That Eb Ma7 (?) xx1333, starting to get it; the thumb, fingers and hand all began forming their own comfortable (or at least not killing me) position. From there to the F barre, it went the same kinda way, a way I'd never done the F barre before. It makes one want to keep with it, just to see if one will completely turn the corner.