McnaughtonPark

the couplet quandry is over, now I have to rewrite every section. Two weeks may keep the pace going, 3 days to choose a topic, and two weeks from posting it would be a little better than such a quick pace at one week. I think what I have now is better than what it was when first written, so the days have been spent working, and improving the lyric. I love deadlines and working under pressure. Most procrastinators do. I also believe that for certain things, a little more time to polish the stone isn't bad. Here is my lyric http://forums.songstuff.com/index.php?showtopic=13204

I've started a lyric and have about three rewrites in it. I am currently stuck in a quagmire of a particular couplet and I actually enjoy the challenge. I realized that the article should be used for inspiration, if you can't relate to the subject matter, find something that inspires you from it. Medical science, family, cars, hate, there are a lot of avenues to cross in this story. I came back to read it again hoping for a lifeline out of the muck. MP

A common language is evident in every thriving community.

For me, what I call a refrain, is a complete thought that can usually be said in 2 bars. I use it to complete a section, and usually as the hook and title. What I call a chorus, is also a refrain, but the thought needs more than two bars, usually 8 bars but not always. It is also repeated, contains the hook and almost always the title. I sometimes will write 4 bars and finish up each A with them as the refrain. If it doesn't repeat, it's not a chorus or a refrain. This is that area where terminology fusses up the mix. I use them the same meaning wise. AABA structure, for me, will almost always have what I've come to use as a refrain at the end of the A sections. VCVCBC is really almost the same structure, the refrain is longer. I think if you listen to the song, AABA will contain the same melody for each A section and a different one for the B section. Using the refrain/title/hook in the A sections will allow me to repeat it more often. I may or may not use it in the B section. Whereas a VCVC song would have differing melodies in the V and C sections and so would alternate between them more often. Add a bridge with yet another melody and you can put a lot of interesting music together. With the chorus section lasting longer than 2 bars, you have more time to build thoughts and sink a hook. Sometimes you need to build the refrain, sometimes you don't. Just about everything I talked about is an arguable point. No, it isn't. Yes, it is.

I'm thinking, as I'm reading, how damn glad I am to have crossed creative paths with you Lazz. Over the past, however long it's been, I have from time to time, thought about the discussion you and Kenny had about this topic. Recently, I actually came to understand the point you had made then. I have been writing more AABA and less VCVCBC as a result. I probably misunderstood the point you were making but I came to understand it this way. If the chorus© = refrain®, then: AR, AR, B with or without R, AR. That would essentially be VCVCBC. Now, that form would sometimes appear as my structure and sometimes not. I didn't adhear to it stricly in the sense that there wasn't always a refrain at the end of the A section but that's nothing new for me. I didn't make a rule of it. So, just as I start experimenting, along comes this new, updated version with lots of words I don't understand in a beautifully expressed admiration for songwriting sritten with the utmost respect for the craft. Well written, a great read. Thank you. Tom

So, thank you Lazz and John for explaining this. I think you nailed the lyric Lazz.

ok, my computer is in charge, I'm just a pawn. This is the first I've seen the lead sheet, so thank you Lazz for posting it. I hate being such an amateur, and not knowing anything about the music part of a song. The previous comments about lyricist not understanding how their lyric fits into the musical structure becomes so evident when looking at the lyric in this way. Every syllable corresponds with a note, or time slot. This is where the definition of making the verses count the same, and have the same number of lines comes in and becomes clear. Rhyme isn't needed to do this, but as Lazz pointed out, sometimes words sound themselves into the place in time, they belong there because of how they are pronounced or sung. What is necessary is the understanding of time, and how many beats or stresses you are allowed to write. Beat matching, toe tapping, finger snapping, and writing the lines of the lyric to match. Whether you understand how to read sheet music or not.............., you must write as if you do

I don't know what to say, I'm so amused. Sometime during the competition, could we have a colaborating month where one musician and one lyricist could work together? And, could someone post a song with no music, just singing? I think if the thing wasn't judged in a competition manner and as Steve suggested, a merit base, one could still be judged on melody and lyrical content.

I remember that lyric Lazz, and felt the same tonight as I did when I first read it. Simply beautiful. I have a slight discomfort with the rhyme scheme in the B section, but in song form I'm certain that will fade. Just as I was trying to say, "I Don't Think About You Anymore" isn't a new concept, but the the word choice and rythm are so comfortable. That would be my example of a good lyric, structure and content wise.

Steve, this hardly answers the question. But, none the less, a valid point. Not too easy to ammend if the lyricist does not play an instrument. However, who is posting music that needs lyrics? I don't believe I've ever seen such a post. Many who write music think that the lyrics they have written for the music have made it a song no matter how week the lyrical content. I can honestly say that the lyrics written for Alistar's music and melody were my most rewarding. I love that song still. MP John?

Lazz, I think if it's good is an objective opinion. I know you know that so here is what is good to me. It's interesting. Some cliche used in a new way, or metaphore used as I wasn't expecting. An unexpected rhyme. It's new. I like surprizes. I hate the same old thing. I hate a melody that is obviously stolen from another song. Even just a few notes of something else will make my stomach turn. I like positive mesages though I don't seem to be able to write them as often as I'd like. Simple words, light rhymes, easy to sing, words that feel like milk chocolate rolling off the tounge. Comfortable shoes in a soulful dance, with a big hearted woman, dressed in rose colored satin, holdin' her close, and feelin' her smooth skin, achin to know her much better. The how to's, although helpfull, aren't as interesting as a new and beautiful verse. MP

If I'm just writing an adlib piece, I may not think of a hook. But, if one comes out of it, I may take it and write a complete lyric from it. If it spurs another idea, I may go with that.

Hope it's not too late...I've been very busy. Soft Summer Spinning through like threads Of the days and hopes sewn under For once and then again The rain wants to pretend To forget the winters wind Like a breeze of one soft summer Until I hold you Not just in my dreams I'll keep blowin’ down the road Like a soft summer breeze Won’t quit ‘till I find you The promise tolls the thunder I'll keep turning 'round and 'round Spinning ‘round and ‘round and ‘round ‘Till comfort calls the whisper down Like a breeze of one soft summer Until I hold you Not just in my dreams I'll keep blowin’ down the road Like a soft summer breeze I’ll take a night in your arms Wear it like a precious charm Tame the fury of the seas Like a soft summer breeze Until I hold you My dreams of restful slumber Will just keep blowin’ down the road Like a breeze of one soft summer

Agree, this was the second thing I thought of behind Mic Fleetwoods Tusk.

Anybody else gonna' play?

I thought it was about the buzz.

Kind of. That happened to me after rewriting a lyric over and over. I lost track of it. After some helpful suggestions it came back around.

Here.

This took longer than 10 minutes. It usually does Abandoned Icons Caught up in busy body wonton wallagic Workin’ for a pittance of the full on fallagic Staring at a nineteen inch electronic gadget Full of tiny posters of double tap magic Storing information I don’t want to remember Open inspiration at the tip of my finger Mac attack whack attack reboot DANGER Hi Ho Silver and Microsoft Ranger Digital flashbulb, you can toss the Nikon Abandon the picture or abandon the icon Three and you’re out, yea the big slugger whiffed it That was real life, not computer game gimmicks Go play in the traffic, I don’t care if you biff it Get off your ass kid, get hit with some real kicks Empty the backpack at the base of the Tetons Abandon the trail or abandon the icons Who needs erasers, pens and pencils Gimme’ Word perfect and a million pixels Write me a program to replace my existal Wanna’ see if spell check’ll survive my pistol Double circle cross hair, drop my sight on All hands stand clear, abandon the icon © 2008 Tom Gibson

Yea, I think so. Insperation comes in many forms. New ideas free us up to write, many times ending up with something we wouldn't have written otherwise.

I've never tried those exercises John. They are good ideas tho', thanks for posting them. I do exercise by trying different things. When I read about a technique, i usually give it a try. There are so many books left for me to read on lyric writing, I know I still have a whole lot to learn. For me, staying flexible and open minded helps. I tried numerous writing techniques that I wouldn't have come up with on my own by reading how others do it. Tom

Could it be just plain laziness? There is a naive tendency to believe the person performing the song also wrote it.