john

Anyone? Interaction is key to the success of the community and the site overall. (Thanks for likes so far!) If this is not for you, I’d like to hear that too. It’s all useful when it comes to making plans to improve. @Mahesh @Peggy

Hey As the title states, I have some ideas to help grow the site activity faster than it is currently growing (about 2% per week). There are numerous factors that help forums grow, that help music sites grow: New visitors Returning visitors new members referrals (recommend membership of our site to others) longer visits more pages viewed, more new topics more trending new topics more replies more useful, on-topic replies more new songs posted Harder to measure are things like: A friendly, welcoming environment A supportive environment A knowledgable membership A motivated membership A membership with compatible mindsets A site + community that delivers good value A useful site / essential resource Some of the above are outside the scope of this post (though undoubtedly this topic may affect long term outcomes). What I thought to do was to see if I could encourage any members to join me in trying some initiatives to improve the experience of members (particularly new members) and the value Songstuff represents to members. Some may see us nudging the dials directly. Others may gradually effect some change, for example effecting a culture change. For this we could try initiatives to improve our critique boards, improving the quality and standard of replies with post templates, or by agreeing a minimum content and leading by example (easier if several sign up to this initiative), or changing rules around the ratio of songs you critique versus the songs you get critiqued, or member self policing to encourage more posting. My point is, my fellow members, that we can effect positive change on this site activity, content, growth and engagement. The staff work on this stuff all the time…. among the many things we do to keep Songstuff ticking over. Still, If even a few members would be willing to help (or even visitors who simply share content on their sites, blogs, socials etc) then we can multiply how quickly our site will grow and just how truly useful this site can be for visitors and members alike. Some ideas may be one off experiments, others regular activities, or ongoing activities. I am open to gamifying it. For example: A 24 hour challenge You must enter into the spirit of the contest. If you game the system you will be disqualified A challenge for members to start new topics. 5 points for each topic, bonus 50 points for every 5th topic If they are on different boards. ->Only new topics on different boards will count towards the 50 point bonus. Ie 5 topics on 2 boards counts as 2 ->If each topic is about a different, unrelated subject you get a bonus 10 points per topic If the original post in the new topic is at least 50 words, you get 10 bonus points If the original post in your topic contains an on-topic link to Songstuff content, you get 10 bonus points Total up your own points Post links to your topics in reply to this challenge topic Staff will check the tally of the person with the highest point count If that person’s tally is correct, they win release support for their next song release (or the nominated release of another). This includes: An interview on Songstuff First play song in a Songstuff playlist Release process guidance Help with your bio, press kit, and press release

lol Thanks both of you! Very good.

Hey @alphafight, welcome to Songstuff!

Hi and welcome to Songstuff KenyonL!

He is indeed. The thing is, he is talented… but no more so than many artists. What he is is creative, courageous and very committed. If you really want to evoke change in and with your music here is some advice: Don’t be afraid to try new things Be 100% committed to expressing yourself through all media Explore yourself, your world, and your imagination through your writing, performance and production Keep moving, keep creating, as much of every day that you can, by any means possible Welcome criticism, use it as fuel to grow Surround yourself with similarly motivated people Build a team, a circle of people you can work with Set ambitious goals and commit yourself to achieving them No excuses. Work with what you have and make it work. If you plan to be here for the long haul, be yourself or at least a larger version of yourself Think ahead and be selective in what you do When you decide to do something, be 100% committed to making it happen and more generally: Enjoy the journey Be involved in other people’s journeys and celebrate their successes Find people who inspire you Inspire others by being the best version of you at all times Mistakes are only truly mistakes when you fail to learn from them Don’t stand still Forgive yourself, when it counts Learn from others and teach others as naturally as breathing Trust in small increments Keep finding ways to overcome your doubts

Welcome to Songstuff! A little later than my usual welcomes, but I got here in the end!

Part of having a more streamlined mobile app for better performance

Hey JW, welcome to Songstuff

Back to my youth with Blackfoot - Diary of a working man

It’s choosing an abstraction level, not just for the lyric itself, but for individual elements within the song. It gives a perspective on what is going on but also leaves loads of room for interpretation. Using metaphors and similes takes that abstraction even further. Like you I love Zep, Floyd, Radiohead, Kate Bush, Bowie etc. They all have a good abstraction level in many of their lyrics.

Welcome to Songstuff Brost! I hate to slap you with a rule on your first post, but please speak English. There are a lot of languages in the world and all our staff can’t speak them all… so we have an “English language only” rule… and I am a Scot, so it’s a bit of a challenge for me too I can speak enough French to unintentionally insult someone, so best avoided!

Good points VX. On advice I would say, if you get advice, test it. Where you can, take test method and results back to the original advisor and check you applied the advice correctly. It could be that their advice simply wouldn’t work for you in your circumstance with your goals. That is good for them to know.

I agree about poetry within lyrics, after all, like Mike referred to, lyrics are a specialised application of poetry. Writers like Kate Bush integrate words and music so well. They genuinely push at the boundaries, stretching everything, including the connection between words and music. Still, they know, based upon countless hours of practice, and hundreds if not thousands of draft songs, just where to stretch and where to follow form, rhythm and rhyme. Also, within their music genre, they get a feel for what sort of language, word choice and phrasing to use. Let’s just say, certain combinations are a high risk. For example writing in archaic English, with Shakespearean phrasing, in a song targeting a pop audience. It is just highly unlikely to connect. For me, I want lyrics to connect, to have power, a depth of emotion, to mean something, to offer something unique, original and yes with a certain poetic depth while remaining relatable and to some degree ambiguous. There are many lyrical styles but personally I like some ambiguity. If done right it aids connection between writer, performer and listener, as the completion of meaning for the listener is something written between their ears at the time of listening.

Thanks Mike! I should also add to my previous post that most of what I mentioned are guidelines and therefor subject to change with fashion, time, genre and with application of adventurous and skilful people. Also, don’t let fear stop you. Embrace the adventure. Try new stuff. Learning requires at least some mistakes. Keeping learning means a steady stream of mistakes. Not only do you have to keep making mistakes, you need to know you keep making mistakes, and still have massive balls enough to not only get up and make mistakes but to keep getting up and making mistakes. A great way to keep making mistakes is…. Drum roll please… to keep taking risks. Lyrics in relation to music and song are the classic definition of the whole being greater than the sum of the parts.

ooooo… I’ve been giving advice for years… or at least opinions, because that is all advice ever is. I’ve lost count! In truth it would be unusual if I never changed my mind. We are always changing, learning. The world is always changing, evolving. Advice that could be great advice today can be terrible advice a year later. If I give you advice today to help you stand out, and you apply it and get results, and another bunch of people follow it too, and then others copy them, and copy them and copy them, pretty soon that is the norm and none of you will stand out. Perhaps one or two of the early adopters will have gained enough at the time. That’s kind of what we do. Marketing technique. Music technique. Word technique. Fashion. All we ever get are gains in the moment. Sometimes they are authentic enough, deep enough, that the gains stick. Queue up enough gains, one after the other, and you just might build a significant fanbase, some longevity in the industry. It’s not about the one idea. It’s about consistently getting good ideas, good execution. It’s about peppering that with great ideas and execution, a smattering of fantastic ideas, and a few mind blowing to boot. That comes from opening yourself up, taking risks and being freely creative for the love of it. Art is no one thing. No great brush stroke. It takes many brush strokes to make a painting and many paintings to make a career. Ideas will be what you always fall short of if you wait to be spoon fed, as many do. Be the hungry one. Try new things. Mix your own colours. All of which sounds a hell of a lot like more opinions and advice! Lol

Hi This is a fairly common consideration. There are many poets who start writing lyrics, and vice versa. They are related, but there is an essential difference. Poems essentially stand alone, although there are some more entangled poetry performances. The difference isn’t rocket science. In songs, words and music work have a relationship. They modify each other. They work together. They work against each other. As a writer we have to manage that relationship. We stick our heads in the sand to our own detriment. Some aspects of writing are guidelines, with decisions and consequences. Some consequences are more significant than others. They are NOT rules invented by a draconian enforcer. They are simply “If this, then that”. Equally, there are some immutable facts. You can treat any art form with respect, learning from the experience of others who practice that art form, or people who have walked the same path as you experiencing similar issues, you can open minded-ly learn from your own experiments… or you can try to force that art form to conform to your concept of what you believe it to be. Writers encounter this, whether they come from poetry, writing rap, or come from a composer or music performer background. It also happens to be one aspect of writing where we can lack self awareness. It’s something that membership of a community can help with, if you let it. I guess it depends on who you are and why you write. I write words and music. I was already a fledgling musician when as a young child I tried writing my first story (two sides of an A6 sheet, about aliens arriving on earth, encountering a bus station and people, getting a little confused about earth and then going home!). I just turned 4. No doubt I had created stories before, but this was the first I had taken the time to write. I still have it somewhere. I started trying to write poems before I tried writing lyrics, however I was far from an expert in anything when I began writing songs. I was naive as a composer, but that is ok. I was happy to express myself, experiment and talk to others. Unfortunately Songstuff didn’t exist. Damn! I’ve been lucky. As a writer and composer I have no idea how many writers I have helped, but I have direct experience of trying to help a lot. I am the lucky one. I have learned from that experience. I hope that has made me a more rounded writer. I say all that to give context to my comments. I will focus on the transition from poet to lyricist, particularly those with little or no music performance or composition experience, as songs are the primary focus of the site. 1, poets need to consider that the guidelines for writing songs are not the same as those for writing poems. 2, there are conventions, and forms that are designed to help you. They help you with specific genres and with songwriting over all. 3, there are concepts and ideas that poetry and lyrics share, however lyrical concepts and ideas are also subtly modified by their relationship with music. 4, there are things in poetry that might be acceptable, that would not be acceptable in songs, or within conversational spoken language. This is largely because lyrics are often conversational in nature. 5, lyrics often are encountered as performances within a context of a performance between 3 minutes and 6 minutes. Poetry, on the other hand is usually encountered on a page, and sometimes as a verbal poetry performance. Either way, read or heard, poems do not have the same, regular, heavy time restrictions. 6, The rhythm of words and music have a strong relationship. Ideally they should be complimentary rhythms, and if they jar, they should be sparingly used, for creative reasons. 7, Language: If you deviate from common parlance, street phrasing, you are likely to use words and phrasing that have an archaic feel. 8, Language: if you use unusual, more complicated or flowery language your song runs the risk of alienating your audience. Often it makes lyrics feel intellectual. Slightly cold. 9. Music is a whole bunch of additional modifiers and nuance on top of the words you write. It is a good idea to understand them, however you achieve it. 10, Learning is an eternal process. Be open minded. I generally recommend taking up an instrument to gain insight, however simply talking to other writers and finding out their perspective on songwriting. I could write a lot more… but I thought we could use this as a topic to gather crossover advice for new lyricists. So, dust off your best advice and post it here. Maybe some board lyricist will learn from our nuggets! Cheers John

I love almost any demonstration of skill, talent creativity. Music, sport, dance, art… it’s amazing what people can do.

I have about 23 songs written and a few part written, and I keep writing more. I plan to record and start releasing them this year. Almost all I plan on recording as pretty well stripped back to acoustic, and also as a full arrangement. I am thinking of releasing a few stand alone songs, followed by either 1, 2 or 3 EPs (depending on response) each with 1 or 2 single mixes. I will then look to record an album. I have a bunch of other songs not yet recorded. A few I plan to pitch, the rest are just for archiving. There’s nothing really wrong with them, but I only want to release the songs I am happiest with, and the songs that represent me to the best. Fun, fun, fun!

Hey Bruce! Welcome to the Songstuff family. Great to have you with us. What are your music plans for 2023?

Hi I thought this would be an interesting topic to find out about. FYI: analysis:Why do we stop exploring new music as we get older? https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-02-26/why-do-we-stop-exploring-music-as-we-age/102006492?utm_campaign=abc_news_web&utm_content=link&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_source=abc_news_web Cheers John

Hey Tom, Good to meet you. Welcome to our community!

Get better soon Jac. Covid is a horrible illness. I was listening to Kick Inside last week. So many good songs. However today goes to Led Zeppelin’s Immigrant Song:

I look forward to hearing your music Shembo. Welcome to Songstuff.

Hi Alex, good to have you with us! Welcome to the Songstuff family! Be brave of heart. We all had a first day, even me!