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john

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Everything posted by john

  1. Welcome to the forums truegritt :)

  2. john

    Welcome to the forums Jlive :)

  3. Welcome to the forums kenkingg2002 :)

  4. Welcome to the forums brooklyn0908 :)

  5. Hey Farouk, good to meet you. Welcome to Songstuff!
  6. Welcome to the forums Dalten :)

  7. Welcome to the forums farouk2music :)

  8. john

    Welcome to the forums Cult :)

  9. Welcome to the forums bcbonstage :)

  10. You miss the point, success is a function of perspective. Success means achieving a goal. That goal need not be "to be popular". It could be "how well did it deliver the message you intended to deliver". It can be many things depending on your perspective.
  11. Welcome to the forums DartWingz :)

  12. Love this! Cry Me a River - Written by Arthur Hamilton, performed by Ella Fitzgerald
  13. Okay... I am not saying popularity equals good. I tried to be clear but something has been lost in translation. That is my fault for not being clear enough. My fault as the writer of the post. It has to be a factor simply because of mass testing of the song by many listeners. Longevity is a factor simply because that is mass testing by listeners over time. Is either absolue and defining? No. Art comes in 3 forms: Art for the artist (Induldgent, soliloque, a speech or sermon, ego driven) Art for the public (Often called a selll out, lacking soul, detatched, arm's length, popularity driven) Art for both the artist and the public (Conversational, communicative, driven by many things) Which type you choose is a decision taken by the artist. I try and produce number 3 from above.Therefor, what the listener thinks is important to me. It's not the only facet. As mentioned in my first post there are several factors, several key ingredients. Because "good" to me concerns the connection and the quality of communication between the writer and the listener as much as suitability, creativity, memorability etc. Good might mean something different to you. That's why I love talking about this sort of thing because for me it is very useful to understand the perspective of others, because I am interested in your opinions and because it tweaks my own decisions when writing. Longevity, now that's a whole other topic on it's own, but it is also a part of the generic "good". As the writer good is a measure of success, and success is a function of perspective. ie it is a subjective quality. Surely we can find some commonality on what good means? Hooks? Structure and form? Memorability? Use of language? Even in discussing popularity as one facet of a song I think it demonstrates a breadth of opinion, feelings and meaning, but there are common elements of what it means.
  14. I just spent 30 minutes posting a reply to this. I then accidentally closed the window before posting it..... Popularity is a factor worth considering. Less popular songs are less tested. For me it comes down to (popularity wise) am I only interested in my opinion, or am I interested in every one else's. After all I know mine. I share my perspective partly in the hope it helps someone else, and partly because it gives other people the chance to consider my opinion and offer suggestions that may modify my own opinion, my own understanding. Another significant part is considering what people generally think. I write songs for other people as much as myself. My songs are 100% me, but 100% me connecting with other people in a musical conversation. If I want my message to connect I have to consider what other people connect to, what other people like and dislike. In part that is the role that generally accepted songwriting guidelines (not rules) play in writing a song. They are the result of collected wisdom. There are no absolutes. Gijs, true, we all decide what we consider to be "good" or not. There is no alternative. What we can do however is learn from others and adjust what we think is good and why. In posting here we share our knowledge and people consider it and perhaps offer suggestions we ourselves consider and incorporate in our understanding. If we hope to connect with others via songs, then we must be interested in what other people think. After all it takes at least two people to take part in a conversation, but it is with the speaker that the onus of being understood belongs to. In otherwords we have to make ourselves understood, we have to talk in a way that the listener will understand, and that means understanding the listener. Otherwise we are speaking purely for our own benefit. A good song is like a good meal. You are the chef. We are your peers in the kitchen, the listener is a diner in your restaurant. We have a list of ingredients which known recipe's tell us of combinations that have been proven to work. So here we are in the kitchen, tasting each other's recipes. We offer our opinion taste wise, but we also have our opinions on what diners would enjoy eating. Not only that, we have our opinion on the meals others will enjoy eating so much that they talk to other potential diners about it. As chefs we might offer tweaks to improve the recipe you create and seek similar when we offer our creations for a taste test. There is a generally accepted wisdom on flavours, known combinations of ingredients that appeal to people. For example if I suggested adding salt, not sugar, to make cake frosting do you think most people would like it or hate it? Would you like it or hate it? I think we could all agree that very few people are likely to find it palatable. All the other ingredients and how they are combined might be perfect but that one ingredient can ruin it. Reinventing the wheel takes time and energy that I would rather direct towards improving my own abilities. At the same time I accept that to learn what other people like I have to listen and consider what they say. To learn what others know, I have to listen to them. My understanding is not perfect, it will never be perfect, but I can improve it. Asking ourselves what makes a popular song also considered to have "good lyrics" is a good question to ask. And the reverse. To ask that of unknown songs is an exercise in prediction. We have our opinion on what is good, but it is folly to not understand what others consider good and incorporate that so that our own songs improve. Just my two cents on something that should not be overly contentious, and definitely should not be made personal or taken personally.
  15. Welcome to the forums Triunfar9 :)

  16. Hey Ron, Welcome to Songstuff! As a veteran of the OLD mp3.com I totally agree. Spread the love to your fellow artists and producers Off for a listen now....
  17. hi and welcome to Songstuff Merry Christmas!
  18. Welcome to the forums iamwhoiam1970 :)

  19. Welcome to the forums dampro :)

  20. Welcome to the forums bewarethewater :)

  21. Welcome to the forums bardsandwarriors :)

  22. Welcome to the forums annaselena :)

  23. Welcome to the forums analogic10 :)

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