Rhymes In Lyrics

[Nigel]

Just wondered what you guys thought about lyrics that don´t rhyme? Maybe its my age or something but ever since I started looking at writing songs and in particular the lyrics (back in the 60´s) they have always been based on a couple of the lines in the verse and chorus rhyming, at least thats how I saw it.

This is how I have always written the lyrics to my songs, and in some way making some of the lyrics rhyme is part of the challenge in my view, but now I notice having looked at a lot of lyrics that members have sent in that they don´t rhyme at all.

I know that David Bowie had a way of writing songs by writing different lines of text on different pieces of paper and then laying them down in some sort of order and that was it, the lyric for his song. Well it obviously worked for him but what do you think?

Does a lyric that does not have any lines that rhyme just become a series of statements in confused manner?

I´d be interested to know what other people think.

[Alistair]

Oh dear, this is like trying to answer 'what is the meaning of life?' !

I think the word 'lyric' is the key here. It conjures certain expectations in people's minds, as opposed to poetry or prose. Some of those expectations are based on exposure to lyrics that do rhyme but also the fact that they are set to a structure called music which imposes certain limits on them that perhaps is not true for some poetry and most prose.

In that context, reading a lyric that does not rhyme without hearing the music is like reading prose or blank verse. Is it still a lyric? Well, yes, because it is supposed to go with music but if you can't hear it then it won't appear any different to prose. The intention has no effect, only what the reader can see rather than hear. So, once you start putting rhymes into a lyric, even without music it is more like a lyric than prose. Taking that to its limit, rhymes make it more like a lyric. Rhymes also connect with the music more than they can do written on a page.

Having said that, lyricists can over do the dependency on rhymes and rhyme schemes. Some rhymes sound forced. In such cases it's often better not to rhyme or to half-rhyme insstead - keeps the element of surprise.

[Steve]

I think Alistair hit the nail on the head. The lyric with music is a lot easier to adjust to if there is no rhyming scheme. But there are plenty of songs with no rhyming scheme! America - Simon and Garfunkle springs to mind.

[KennyChaffin]

Just wondered what you guys thought about lyrics that don´t rhyme? Maybe its my age or something but ever since I started looking at writing songs and in particular the lyrics (back in the 60´s) they have always been based on a couple of the lines in the verse and chorus rhyming, at least thats how I saw it.

This is how I have always written the lyrics to my songs, and in some way making some of the lyrics rhyme is part of the challenge in my view, but now I notice having looked at a lot of lyrics that members have sent in that they don´t rhyme at all.

I know that David Bowie had a way of writing songs by writing different lines of text on different pieces of paper and then laying them down in some sort of order and that was it, the lyric for his song. Well it obviously worked for him but what do you think?

Does a lyric that does not have any lines that rhyme just become a series of statements in confused manner?

I´d be interested to know what other people think.

Haven't read the other responses yet, just wanted to post my thoughts without being "influenced."

A lyric is a lyric -- words that are associated with some music with a melody and rhythm associated with them. Generally there is a rhyme scheme, but not necessarily. On top of that there are all manner of rhyme that plays into lyrics - complete rhyme, partial, multi-syllable, internal rhyme, end rhyme (this is the kind you are probably referring to above) and others. Many lyrics if they use a particular rhyme scheme in Verse 1 follow that in other verses. This is to help make the song memorable.

I don't think not having a rhyme/rhyme scheme creates a series of confused statements, because there also should be rhythm and meter associated with the lyric as well. Now if a particular lyric has none of those things and is not in a standard song form, them yeah it could easily be described as a series of confused statements, just as each line might be if the words were arranged randomly.

Still if each of the lines conveyed some message, some feeling, there still might be some point to the song if the music had a good beat and you could dance to it......let's see what is they call that genre....

KAC

[KennyChaffin]

I think Alistair hit the nail on the head. The lyric with music is a lot easier to adjust to if there is no rhyming scheme. But there are plenty of songs with no rhyming scheme! America - Simon and Garfunkle springs to mind.

Great song!

KAC

[Alistair]

I think Alistair hit the nail on the head. The lyric with music is a lot easier to adjust to if there is no rhyming scheme. But there are plenty of songs with no rhyming scheme! America - Simon and Garfunkle springs to mind.

Now there's a rare thing. Steve agreeing with me!

[AnneC]

Those are great examples of songs where rhyming isn't missed. This whole topic has me thinking in a new direction but I'm not sure I'd be able to pull it off too well.

On the other hand, I suddenly find myself thinking of that old song in which the implied (but not stated) rhyming lyric is the whole point of the song. Shhhhaving creammmmm....

[lemonstar]

Shaving cream?I have no idea what that's all about.

"Beginnings" by Chicago Transit Authority - never hear of it or them - I might try and dig that song out.

At times I feel that the invisible pressure (on song writers) to produce lyrics with perfect/partial/internal/initial/vowel/consonant/syllable rhymes can be detrimental to the song writing process - at times it's satisfiying (to listener and writer), sometimes clever and impressive but on the other hand I see a lot of songs crippled by a slavish determination to rhyme at all costs (come on we've all seen it - rediculous or inapproporate words used simply because they rhyme in some way), often to the detriment of telling a story or communicating a message.

I wrote this song (not quite finished) just over a year ago. It was written so quickly (day and a half) that I didn't even think about rhyming until a few days after I'd written it - only then did it occur to me that I hadn't given one thought to any kind of rhyming, alliteration, assonance, etc - there is comparatively little in the song(make..mind, gonna give). On the face it rhyming "go" with "go" is one of those things that most of us would quickly earmark for a rewrite. You'd have to hear the song to decide if it works but I surprised myself although I have a few others where I was clear about what I wanted express and gave that top almost singular priority. I think it's been said on one of the boards here - there are no "rules" only "rules of thumb" and generally there is a lot of good sense in them but there are also plenty of exceptions that work. Brian Eno has made quite a few interesting points about producing (as in making/creating) music - one comment I heard on a Radio 4 program last year was that he thought "lyric writing" was the last difficult problem to be solved in music, making pop music by comparison is, in his humble opinion, now relatively easy and well understood.

By way of an example from my own experience (no need for critique - I'll post it up for that sometime)

verse

Yeah I'm gonna wake up

Then I'll sleep like a rock tonight

But I'm not gonna let go

Then I'm gonna let myself go

chorus 1:

verse

Yeah I'm gonna lie down

And surrender to the universe

I'm gonna make my mind up

I'm gonna take a hold of destiny

chorus 2:

Part of middle 8

As long as you can feel it

Does it really matter?

Do you get what I'm saying now?

Because my life depends upon it

verse

Yeah I'm gonna leave it

I'm gonna give it all away

Every tiny little thing

To anyone who really needs it

chorus 1:

verse

But I'm not gonna wait for

For the signals or the signs

Gonna set my intention

And create a new reality

chorus 2:

Edited April 5, 2008 by lemonstar

[KennyChaffin]

Those are great examples of songs where rhyming isn't missed. This whole topic has me thinking in a new direction but I'm not sure I'd be able to pull it off too well.

On the other hand, I suddenly find myself thinking of that old song in which the implied (but not stated) rhyming lyric is the whole point of the song. Shhhhaving creammmmm....

or the one that really grabs me in this vein is "Yellow" by Coldplay.

very interesting song/structure/lyrics

KAC

[Nightwolf]

Cadence is more important methinks than rhymes

If the lines have a similar cadence or sound similar in some way they will link together in your mind. The easiest way to do this is to rhyme, but it is not a steadfast rule, just a good and popular idea

my two cents,

John

[Mazrocon]

No I don't think a song NEEDS rhymes. Rhymes help alot but I know plenty of songs that don't have any rhyme that are still really good. Alot of people think songs NEED rhymes but I think of it as something you try to add to the song if you can. But if you can't it's fine

~TIMOTHY~

[themusicsnob]

I think that rhymes become unhelpful when they lead to a loss of creativity and thinking on the part of the songwriter. Many simple rhymes are used in pop music that suggest easy phrase completion. We've all heard songs where we can pretty much predict what the next lines will say based on the rhyme scheme. Songs like this have little value to me, because they are telling us something we already know way too well, and offer nothing of perspective or nuance...