Talent Vs. Luck

[Richard Tracey]

2 hours ago, Just1L said:

 

Move to St. Louis. There really are lots of good stations. Some for when you want to hear what you used to hear and some that offer some new music. A rather new alternative station popped up some time ago. The "general" radio play has "Opheila" and that "Wish I knew you when I was Young" song to death and their rotation isn't the strongest. But they have different shows every once in a while with new music, rare music (LOL what's rare with the internet these days) and other cool things. Another great channel is KDHX 88.1. It's an Indie radio station that is actually part of my main goal (as in I want to send them a CD when I have one to try to get it on there. They play local artists, new music, jazz, blues, bluegrass, far east music. Just about everything depending on the time of the day and the DJ. There's an older lady on there who must be playing actual LPs. She talks soooooooo sloooooooow it makes me and the kids laugh. But eventually, the tune will start and it's all older music but has the coolness of it being played with a needle. So come on over. You can stay in our pool house. 

 

That is something I have noticed recently about America. There are radio stations popping up in some cities that cater to a more indie style. Not indie as in the way the U.K. Think of indie, but in the sense that it is not the crap forcefed to us by the big Music Companies.

 

The soundtrack to Stranger Things hit and that seems to have opened up a massive following for new wave type music and it turns out the city that the group SURVIVE are from, has a big following and radio stations dedicated to that type of synthpop/electronic genre.

 

That is promising, but it's not enough. We need to get away from the same music being peddled by the same artists and the same writing teams. We will not move forward until that happens.

[Just1L]

3 minutes ago, Richard Tracey said:

 

That is something I have noticed recently about America. There are radio stations popping up in some cities that cater to a more indie style. Not indie as in the way the U.K. Think of indie, but in the sense that it is not the crap forcefed to us by the big Music Companies.

 

The soundtrack to Stranger Things hit and that seems to have opened up a massive following for new wave type music and it turns out the city that the group SURVIVE are from, has a big following and radio stations dedicated to that type of synthpop/electronic genre.

 

That is promising, but it's not enough. We need to get away from the same music being peddled by the same artists and the same writing teams. We will not move forward until that happens.

 

Yeah, I think in general Stranger Things has opened up a lot of genres in 80's music. For example, my 14 year old just bought a Van Halen shirt. He came back from band camp and wanted a Spotify account because a lot of the kids have them and Van Halen and other rock bands from that era are something a lot of them are into right now. It won't last of course, nothing does. But as far as rock goes, once you like rock, it's hard to shake. 

 

What radio stations used to do is not only peddle what labels/producers want to sell, but by simply being on the radio, it "legitimized" the songs for the listeners. A lot of people may kind of like a song they hear. If they get verification from others that the song is really good, the interest leaps forward. Here's a really close, but kind of bad, but still saying what I'm meaning kind of example.

 

The movie Halloween. It's a classic. When it came out of the gate it struggled big time. Reviews were bad, people weren't going and it was close to tanking. Until the day a well respected movie critic saw it, liked it, and wrote about it. That's when it took off. People heard from a verified source that it was good, so they in turn thought it was good enough for them to go see and it became huge.

 

As far as the internet goes. Anyone can put anything on it. Which is great. The key is to find that right person or avenue that really likes what your doing that can spread the word to others giving you that verified street-cred that will make listeners think, "Okay, this is legit or I wouldn't be hearing about it from this person."

[Richard Tracey]

48 minutes ago, GuesSs said:

I think you may be a little misinformed on the current state of rnb and hip hop and why it is so popular. It is so popular because frankly it is what people want to hear. Radio has very little to do with it. Tyler the creator has never had a song played on the radio and his most recent album sold 90k. Logic is another rapper who has never had a song on the radio really and his most recent album sold 196k not counting streams. Most rappers and rnb artist nowadays have all but abandoned the traditional press run cycle that includes announcing a release date months in advance followed by releassing singles to get people excited for their project. That style of doing things is all but dead in those genres. Now when an artist has a project they want to release they simply tweet or put on instagram that it is dropping tonight and their fans go crazy.

 

At most they may announce at album release 2 weeks in advance. With Kendrick lamars most recent album he announced it 2 weeks before it came out and it sold over 600k. The point i'm trying to make is it is dominating because it's what people want. Radio isn't dictating what is hot and popular the internet does and then it eventually makes its way over to radio. When artist release their albums on such short notice it doesn't give labels time to set up interviews and push singles. They drop it out of nowhere and their fans stream the f*ck out of it and whichever song has the most plays typically ends up being the song you hear on the radio. Artist doing things this way puts the power in the fans hands and allows them to champion which song is the most popular instead of people at a label who are out of touch.

 

Futhermore,  I can't think of the last time anyone in my age group (18-25) even listened to the radio. Most of the time we just get in our cars, plug our phones into the aux chord, and play whatever playlist we have on soundcloud, spotify, itunes etc. Personally I have maybe listened to the radio twice so far this year. It's not about radio play anymore it's all about streaming. Most of these rappers and rnb artist aren't releasing their projects for a fee they simply put it on one of these streaming platforms and make their money on the back end up through touring.

 

And that brings me to my final point. The truth is hip hop and rnb is what is resonating most with the demographics labels and streaming services hope to target. It's less about record labels pushing an agenda and more about the people dictating what they want. These genres represent youth, freedom, and rebellion. It is what young people wanna hear when they are at a party and having a good time with their friends.  These are the types of fans that are the most coveted because they are the ones who are going to buy tickets for the live show, buy the merchandise, and stream the album over and over again.  They're the ones who are going to go to the music festivals and scream their ass off. Hip and rnb will continue to dominate for years to come because it's not just about the music. It's a culture and lifestyle that resonates and is appealing to the youth. Music majors aren't deciding what's hot in this day and age they are playing catch up and trying to ride the wave of what's made popular by fans.

 

'Not misinformed, just realistic. We are force fed that type of music to the point that is what people want to listen to, as they don't know any different. My daughters listen to music that I find boring and uninteresting, but again, it is what they are told to listen to, it is what is played on the radio, it is what is championed on YouTube, it is what their friends like and all because we get told that is what we should be listening to. The music industry are sly and always have been, they push what they want to sell and play games with our minds, to condition us to like the music they want us to buy.

 

Has the internet really killed the music artist, or is it the music artist has killed themselves by churning out the same crap as everyone else.

 

As for streaming sites, they are good at finding new acts, but only if you listen to a varied style of music. If you listen to r'n'b and hip-hop, that is all they will give you as a choice. They are not going to through in a country song or synthpop song.

 

You are younger than I am, but I have lived at a time when a wide variety of music was played on the radio and tv and although the industry pushed their acts, there was a lot of variation in the acts for everyone. I saw the rot starting to set in and have been banging the drum for a long time.

 

You can go on about demographics all you want, that doesn't mean it is right. I can bet if they carried out a proper check of this so,called demographic it might show a total change to what you have been led to believe.

 

There will come a point and it is long overdue, that r'n'b and hip-hop will fade away for a while and then come back again rejuvenated. It has happened throughout history. You have acts that come along, style of music that comes along in defiance of what went before it. We are at breaking point and something needs to change. There are so many fantastic artists out there not getting s chance, not getting heard, so that some bloody clone can be manipulated by the music industry to make them money.

 

Your last paragraph actually makes me laugh if you really believe there is not a machine working in the background pushing what you think is just a random thing for these acts to do. They all have teams who work out every little aspect of their lives for them and even what you think is just a - hey, I'm dropping my album tonight - has been worked out months in advance. It is a money machine, they don't do anything by accident.

 

Regardless of what you believe, I believe that the majority of music fans are brainwashed into liking certain songs and movement. They have co-ordinated this for a long time, the rebellious aspect of the music might have started out as that, but it is now a business, with some artists trying to see how shocking they can be to pander to a society looking for escapism and to put the blame onto other parts of society. An example is how Ice Cube used to sing about hating the police etc, but is now starring in TV programmes as a cop. It is what got him there in the first place as it anarchy (which is why the Sex Pistols blew up) and teenagers and what is happening in their lives feel that and it becomes a part of them. It doesn't mean that it is good or the person singing it really means it, but whether the person hearing it wants to believe it. That is manipulation and a lot of those artists made a lot of money off of it.

[Just1L]

Top Selling Vinyl Records 2016:

http://www.officialcharts.com/chart-news/the-official-top-40-biggest-selling-vinyl-albums-and-singles-of-2016__17583/

 

Top Selling Albums (CDs) 2016

http://www.officialcharts.com/chart-news/the-official-top-40-biggest-albums-of-2016__17580/

 

Most Streamed Artists (multiple categories) 2016

https://news.spotify.com/us/2016/12/01/wrapped-2016/

 

By looking through these and doing some reading. For me, my immediate, best avenue would be to start with Vinyl. It would be the area it seems most people into rock are buying the music. It's only a place to start, but I would be starting where the most are into rock are listening. It's of course not that simple and there's much more to it all of course, but getting started on the right track is always helpful.

 

 

[Just1L]

33 minutes ago, Richard Tracey said:

 

That is something I have noticed recently about America. There are radio stations popping up in some cities that cater to a more indie style. Not indie as in the way the U.K. Think of indie, but in the sense that it is not the crap forcefed to us by the big Music Companies.

 

Yeah, our indie station I mentioned KDHX is really great in that way. All the DJs work for free. They do it because the love it, love music and still want to either promote the music they love or just be in the music business in general. Lots of crazy stuff on there, which makes it great.

[Richard Tracey]

2 minutes ago, tunesmithth said:

All very good points, but I hate to see us ignore the elephant in the room.

One of the primary reasons hi-hop, R & B and rap got so huge is cost. 

The fact is it's cheaper than hell to make & is almost entirely a software generated product.

Because it requires so little in the way of musical skill, knowledge & equipment, huge numbers of creators are able to actively participate.

 

The mainstream industry loves it because it requires no arrangers, studio musicians and costs them practically nothing on the production end. 

Independent creators of content love it for the reasons mentioned in that first paragraph. 

The end result being that a huge volume of creators are constantly churning out a huge volume of independently produced material.

It's everywhere because creation & distribution are more closely related to "tech" than traditional music.

 

So which came first....the chicken or the egg?

Has it become popular because it's unavoidably everywhere, or on it's own merits?

Does the public now crave it because of the decades-long deliberate effort on the part of content creators to make a standard part of our culture, or because it's what the listener genuinely wants?

The fact of the matter is...I can't be certain!

Since you're in your 20's & virtually incapable of recalling a time when these genres weren't everywhere, I'm willing to bet that you can't either. 

 

Bottom line - it's tremendously cheaper to produce, much simpler for virtually anyone to participate in & it's completely saturated the commercial markets for decades.

So...does that make it better & more desirable, or simply what popular by design?

 

Tom

Tom you have hit the nail on the head and was actually a point I was going to make. There is not much goes into the creation of these songs, so are easier to make, but it is a machine and someone always controls the machine.

 

I also grew up when their was a variety of music to listen to and saw this happening about 20 years ago. Most movements/genres only last a short period of time before moving on. This one has lasted too long as they are obviously making lots of moolah from it.

 

The product placement doesn't help the longevity of this genre, as it is everywhere, every film has a song placed in it, even when it doesn't bloody go with the film. I have watched a couple of movies recently with a lovely soundtrack and then this hip-hop song appears at the end that has no connection to the film. It is there because some music exec has spoken to some studio exec and paid them money to place it hoping it will sell the song/artists.

[MonoStone]

2 hours ago, GuesSs said:

I agree a lot of it sounds the same but its not because its manufactured by labels it's because artist know what's popular and trending amongst their fanbase and they keep making music that they will consume

 

How terrible is that though? 'Artists' make music a certain way just because they know there's a demand for it...

 

Music should be created the way you want to create it... tweak it to tick a few current boxes maybe, but never make music just because it seems to be in demand. This is especially important to new artists... jumping on a bandwagon is a bad idea, especially if you're at the tail end of it. 

 

Artists should do their own thing if they can, or AT LEAST bring some new element, something of their own, to a current 'trend' to develop it... 

 

And again, making music JUST for commercial/financial success or (as is common now) just to find fame, is just business not art. If the artist honestly loves the current trend/style then that's fine, jump on the bandwagon, everyone has their own tastes and their own choice.

[GuesSs]

1 hour ago, Richard Tracey said:

 

'Not misinformed, just realistic. We are force fed that type of music to the point that is what people want to listen to, as they don't know any different. My daughters listen to music that I find boring and uninteresting, but again, it is what they are told to listen to, it is what is played on the radio, it is what is championed on YouTube, it is what their friends like and all because we get told that is what we should be listening to. The music industry are sly and always have been, they push what they want to sell and play games with our minds, to condition us to like the music they want us to buy.

 

Has the internet really killed the music artist, or is it the music artist has killed themselves by churning out the same crap as everyone else.

 

As for streaming sites, they are good at finding new acts, but only if you listen to a varied style of music. If you listen to r'n'b and hip-hop, that is all they will give you as a choice. They are not going to through in a country song or synthpop song.

 

You are younger than I am, but I have lived at a time when a wide variety of music was played on the radio and tv and although the industry pushed their acts, there was a lot of variation in the acts for everyone. I saw the rot starting to set in and have been banging the drum for a long time.

 

You can go on about demographics all you want, that doesn't mean it is right. I can bet if they carried out a proper check of this so,called demographic it might show a total change to what you have been led to believe.

 

There will come a point and it is long overdue, that r'n'b and hip-hop will fade away for a while and then come back again rejuvenated. It has happened throughout history. You have acts that come along, style of music that comes along in defiance of what went before it. We are at breaking point and something needs to change. There are so many fantastic artists out there not getting s chance, not getting heard, so that some bloody clone can be manipulated by the music industry to make them money.

 

Your last paragraph actually makes me laugh if you really believe there is not a machine working in the background pushing what you think is just a random thing for these acts to do. They all have teams who work out every little aspect of their lives for them and even what you think is just a - hey, I'm dropping my album tonight - has been worked out months in advance. It is a money machine, they don't do anything by accident.

 

Regardless of what you believe, I believe that the majority of music fans are brainwashed into liking certain songs and movement. They have co-ordinated this for a long time, the rebellious aspect of the music might have started out as that, but it is now a business, with some artists trying to see how shocking they can be to pander to a society looking for escapism and to put the blame onto other parts of society. An example is how Ice Cube used to sing about hating the police etc, but is now starring in TV programmes as a cop. It is what got him there in the first place as it anarchy (which is why the Sex Pistols blew up) and teenagers and what is happening in their lives feel that and it becomes a part of them. It doesn't mean that it is good or the person singing it really means it, but whether the person hearing it wants to believe it. That is manipulation and a lot of those artists made a lot of money off of it.

Just because you don't want to believe it doesn't mean it's not true lol. You must have missed the point where I said young people do not listen to the radio. So because they are not listening to the radio they aren't being force fed anything. Like I mentioned before the AUX chord is king and people just plug their phones in and play the songs they wanna hear of these streaming services. I'm not sure if you're familiar with how streaming services work but you can choose the genre and type of music you want to hear. If i go on spotify right now I could choose to listen to a playlist that has the most popular rap songs or I could pick a playlist of country music. so i'm not sure where this notion that people are being spoon feed what they like is coming from they are choosing what they want to listen to. Now a synthpop or a country song may not be in the top 10 list for these streaming sites because they aren't as popular as hip hop and rnb but they have dedicated playlist for them if that is what you want to hear.

 

The music industry isn't conditioning us to buy music because nobody is buying music in this day and age. That is half the reason why streaming has become as major as it has because people don't buy albums like they used to. Major artist are signing exclusivity deals with streaming services left and right because it's what the trend is now.  I am sure back in the day there was a variety in what was heard on radio and tv. But the internet has made it so we don't have to rely on the people at radio stations to curate music for us we just go online and listen to what we want ourselves. I don't see hip hop and rnb fading because it continues to evolve with the times and continues to be popular amongst the youth. Music labels don't have nearly the power they had a decades ago. Soundcloud and youtube has made it possible for people to build their own fanbase and sell their own merchandise and music. So yes it is quite easy for someone to say my album is dropping tonight and it has a lot of downloads  and streams. More and more artist are pulling away from labels and it terrifies them.

 

Regardless of what you want to believe and accept the truth of the matter is this. Nobody is brainwashing anyone to like anything since people are choosing the type of music they want to hear. The truth is (sadly) it is not about quality of music it is about your brand and what you represent. You could make the best most impactful well constructed music in the world but nobody will care if you have nothing to offer besides that.  These rappers and rnb artist are so popular because again they represent youth, freedom,and rebellion.  The fact is hip hop and rnb can influence culture. A kid who lives in the richest neighnorhood in beverly hills can  stumble across trap music made by people in a poor area in Atlanta. These 2 people have nothing in common but the kid will still be enamored with the music because the culture and lifestyle they portray is one that is fun and appealing to them. He becomes fans of them and wants to dress like them and talk like them because he likes the culture. Maybe their music is trash but he likes it nonetheless because it is cool to him. It continues to dominate because it continues to influence the culture that youth loves.

[GuesSs]

2 hours ago, Just1L said:

 

Wasn't me. You made a comment here though that is spot on. Being aware of their core audience. Not everyone listens to music online. Not everyone listens to actual LPs. Not everyone still buys CDs, some people do all of those, some do none and only listen for free when they can, etc... But I think you can still make some cash if you're inclined in each of those areas depending on 1) What kind of music make, 2) What's the demographic of people interested in that music and 3) What is the avenue most of that demographic go to listen to music. Ideally, you'd cover all your bases but if you can't, it seems it would be smart to start with where your biggest audience is listening and go from there. The best part is that for the most part, you can get your stuff out there, nicely done and cut out the labels, producers, etc… if your talented enough with a little luck mixed in here and there. 

My point exactly. With the internet you can easily see what your demographic is and what they like. IN the past you needed labels for that but now you can do everything the label could do for you for yourself if you are willing to put in the work. 

[GuesSs]

1 hour ago, tunesmithth said:

 

All very good points, but I hate to see us ignore the elephant in the room.

One of the primary reasons hi-hop, R & B and rap got so huge is cost. 

The fact is it's cheaper than hell to make & is almost entirely a software generated product.

Because it requires so little in the way of musical skill, knowledge & equipment, huge numbers of creators are able to actively participate.

 

The mainstream industry loves it because it requires no arrangers, studio musicians and costs them practically nothing on the production end. 

Independent creators of content love it for the reasons mentioned in that first paragraph. 

The end result being that a huge volume of creators are constantly churning out a huge volume of independently produced material.

It's everywhere because creation & distribution are more closely related to "tech" than traditional music.

 

So which came first....the chicken or the egg?

Has it become popular because it's unavoidably everywhere, or on it's own merits?

Does the public now crave it because of the decades-long deliberate effort on the part of content creators to make a standard part of our culture, or because it's what the listener genuinely wants?

The fact of the matter is...I can't be certain!

Since you're in your 20's & virtually incapable of recalling a time when these genres weren't everywhere, I'm willing to bet that you can't either. 

 

Bottom line - it's tremendously cheaper to produce, much simpler for virtually anyone to participate in & it's completely saturated the commercial markets for decades.

So...does that make it better & more desirable, or simply what popular by design?

 

Tom

You raise some very interesting points here Tom. I agree with the internet it has made it more accessible for people to try their hand at making music. But i don't think it's a bad thing. In the 80's and 90's if I wanted to be a music producer i would have to spend thousands on equipment. And as a 20 year old college student I don't have that kind of money. I don't think there should be a finacial barrier to creativity I think if people want to express themselves through music it should be easy for them to do so. I know that's not what you're trying to say but I do think that is a benefit of it. 

 

It is unavoidably everywhere but that is simply because that is what most people are choosing to make. Other genres could easily do what hip hop, rnb, and even EDM is doing but they haven't utilized the internet to it's advantage. But like you said you can't really be certain that's just my opinion.

 

The truth is for better or for worse nobody cares about how much skill and effort went into making the song. Drake has been exposed for using ghost writers and his music still continues to break records. I know EDM guys that refuse to use presets and want to sound design everything from scratch. But if you say to a regular listener hey you know this person just used a preset and didn't design the sound themselves they aren't going to care. As long as it sounds good that's all that matters.

 

[Just1L]

8 minutes ago, GuesSs said:

My point exactly. With the internet you can easily see what your demographic is and what they like. 

 

It's actually getting a large enough demographic listening to your stuff that's the golden key. It's the space between putting something online and having a large group of people like it that is the trickiest piece of the puzzle. And for some, even if you do the right things, it'll never happen. Just how it is.

[GuesSs]

22 minutes ago, MonoStone said:

 

How terrible is that though? 'Artists' make music a certain way just because they know there's a demand for it...

 

Music should be created the way you want to create it... tweak it to tick a few current boxes maybe, but never make music just because it seems to be in demand. This is especially important to new artists... jumping on a bandwagon is a bad idea, especially if you're at the tail end of it. 

 

Artists should do their own thing if they can, or AT LEAST bring some new element, something of their own, to a current 'trend' to develop it... 

 

And again, making music JUST for commercial/financial success or (as is common now) just to find fame, is just business not art. If the artist honestly loves the current trend/style then that's fine, jump on the bandwagon, everyone has their own tastes and their own choice.

I agree it is terrible but it's the reality that's all im saying. I think it'd be great if their was more diversity and artist weren't trying to copy eachothers sounds. But these people are able to make thousands making what's popular even if they don't love it and for some money is more of a motive than creativity

[GuesSs]

1 hour ago, Richard Tracey said:

Tom you have hit the nail on the head and was actually a point I was going to make. There is not much goes into the creation of these songs, so are easier to make, but it is a machine and someone always controls the machine.

 

I also grew up when their was a variety of music to listen to and saw this happening about 20 years ago. Most movements/genres only last a short period of time before moving on. This one has lasted too long as they are obviously making lots of moolah from it.

 

The product placement doesn't help the longevity of this genre, as it is everywhere, every film has a song placed in it, even when it doesn't bloody go with the film. I have watched a couple of movies recently with a lovely soundtrack and then this hip-hop song appears at the end that has no connection to the film. It is there because some music exec has spoken to some studio exec and paid them money to place it hoping it will sell the song/artists.

I think they do that to make a grasp at the younger audience. Because again if the younger audience are the ones that are going to tweet about it, put it on instagram, make memes about it etc. All that is extra promotion for the movie. Music execs don't care about quality of music they are number guys and whatever song is in the billboard top 10 I'm sure they will find a way to trhow it in there

[Richard Tracey]

15 minutes ago, GuesSs said:

Just because you don't want to believe it doesn't mean it's not true lol. You must have missed the point where I said young people do not listen to the radio. So because they are not listening to the radio they aren't being force fed anything. Like I mentioned before the AUX chord is king and people just plug their phones in and play the songs they wanna hear of these streaming services. I'm not sure if you're familiar with how streaming services work but you can choose the genre and type of music you want to hear. If i go on spotify right now I could choose to listen to a playlist that has the most popular rap songs or I could pick a playlist of country music. so i'm not sure where this notion that people are being spoon feed what they like is coming from they are choosing what they want to listen to. Now a synthpop or a country song may not be in the top 10 list for these streaming sites because they aren't as popular as hip hop and rnb but they have dedicated playlist for them if that is what you want to hear.

 

The music industry isn't conditioning us to buy music because nobody is buying music in this day and age. That is half the reason why streaming has become as major as it has because people don't buy albums like they used to. Major artist are signing exclusivity deals with streaming services left and right because it's what the trend is now.  I am sure back in the day there was a variety in what was heard on radio and tv. But the internet has made it so we don't have to rely on the people at radio stations to curate music for us we just go online and listen to what we want ourselves. I don't see hip hop and rnb fading because it continues to evolve with the times and continues to be popular amongst the youth. Music labels don't have nearly the power they had a decades ago. Soundcloud and youtube has made it possible for people to build their own fanbase and sell their own merchandise and music. So yes it is quite easy for someone to say my album is dropping tonight and it has a lot of downloads  and streams. More and more artist are pulling away from labels and it terrifies them.

 

Regardless of what you want to believe and accept the truth of the matter is this. Nobody is brainwashing anyone to like anything since people are choosing the type of music they want to hear. The truth is (sadly) it is not about quality of music it is about your brand and what you represent. You could make the best most impactful well constructed music in the world but nobody will care if you have nothing to offer besides that.  These rappers and rnb artist are so popular because again they represent youth, freedom,and rebellion.  The fact is hip hop and rnb can influence culture. A kid who lives in the richest neighnorhood in beverly hills can  stumble across trap music made by people in a poor area in Atlanta. These 2 people have nothing in common but the kid will still be enamored with the music because the culture and lifestyle they portray is one that is fun and appealing to them. He becomes fans of them and wants to dress like them and talk like them because he likes the culture. Maybe their music is trash but he likes it nonetheless because it is cool to him. It continues to dominate because it continues to influence the culture that youth loves.

 

Again, I don't think you are getting what I mean, I am not missing the point. Streaming sites act as a radio station, just in a slightly different format. Music Companies still have a lot of say with what gets played, how many times their artists will come up on a playlist etc. Yes you as the consumer choose which genre you want to listen to, but that doesn't mean you get to choose what it is you listen to. I did try Spotify... I didn't like it... out of say 20 songs it would give me, I liked a couple and because I wasn't going to pay for it till I was truly happy, I couldn't move those tracks on, I had to listen to them. I don't find this fun. It is like a magical mystery tour in that you don't know where you are going to end up, but you go along for the ride.

 

So yes, the consumer may have changed how they get their music, but I can assure you the big companies still have as much control as they ever have and this includes the big artists (look at what Adele and Taylor Swift did). You are still being spoon fed, just in a different way. 

 

Music companies are just adapting to the new way to consume music. They are still making money and they want to make as much as possible and to do that they will still find ways to promote and push their product into your face.

 

R'n'b and hip-hop has not evolved for years and it all sounds the same now. It is stagnant, you might not think that, but as someone who used to listen to it when it was in it's fledgling years, I have heard all the experimentation dwindle and now we are just left with something that sounds the same, even the artists sound the same, they way they rap, sing etc. That is not moving on.

 

I don't think anything I will say will make you take stock and look at the comments you make. You think this is all about youth and rebellion and I am some old fuddy-duddy. In 20 years time you will probably be having this conversation with someone the age your are now and you might think back to this conversation and think, damn he was right.

 

You will only like what is put in front of you, if you haven't heard anything else, you don't know it exists. I recommended a couple of artists recently to some members as they had never heard of them before. They looked into those acts and now love them (I think!!).

 

Open you eyes and your ears to new possibilities.

[GuesSs]

9 minutes ago, Jenn said:

i love the radio (BBC radio) and i buy CDs

 

-60 year old soul in 21 year old body

Hahah you are indeed the rare exception Jenn

[GuesSs]

39 minutes ago, Richard Tracey said:

 

Again, I don't think you are getting what I mean, I am not missing the point. Streaming sites act as a radio station, just in a slightly different format. Music Companies still have a lot of say with what gets played, how many times their artists will come up on a playlist etc. Yes you as the consumer choose which genre you want to listen to, but that doesn't mean you get to choose what it is you listen to. I did try Spotify... I didn't like it... out of say 20 songs it would give me, I liked a couple and because I wasn't going to pay for it till I was truly happy, I couldn't move those tracks on, I had to listen to them. I don't find this fun. It is like a magical mystery tour in that you don't know where you are going to end up, but you go along for the ride.

 

So yes, the consumer may have changed how they get their music, but I can assure you the big companies still have as much control as they ever have and this includes the big artists (look at what Adele and Taylor Swift did). You are still being spoon fed, just in a different way. 

 

Music companies are just adapting to the new way to consume music. They are still making money and they want to make as much as possible and to do that they will still find ways to promote and push their product into your face.

 

R'n'b and hip-hop has not evolved for years and it all sounds the same now. It is stagnant, you might not think that, but as someone who used to listen to it when it was in it's fledgling years, I have heard all the experimentation dwindle and now we are just left with something that sounds the same, even the artists sound the same, they way they rap, sing etc. That is not moving on.

 

I don't think anything I will say will make you take stock and look at the comments you make. You think this is all about youth and rebellion and I am some old fuddy-duddy. In 20 years time you will probably be having this conversation with someone the age your are now and you might think back to this conversation and think, damn he was right.

 

You will only like what is put in front of you, if you haven't heard anything else, you don't know it exists. I recommended a couple of artists recently to some members as they had never heard of them before. They looked into those acts and now love them (I think!!).

 

Open you eyes and your ears to new possibilities.

I value your experience with music but I do think you are very out of touch with the times. For one you can see the music that is going to be played in the playlist so you know what you're getting yourself into. Or you could just make your own playlist of songs you wanna hear and call it a day. The power is in your hands you don't have to rely on others to pick what you should hear. Unless music companies are controlling your body and making you listen to specific songs it's all up to you. 

 

A lot of these songs wind up on the playlist they do because they are songs that have gotten the most streams from their respective albums. Artist like Adele and T Swfit are on another level at this point in either of their careers they really don't need help from a label to sell.  In fact nobody needs help from a label to sell music and get a lot of streams if you know how to brand yourself and have a strong fanbase.  Regular people can put their songs on spotify and if they have a strong fanbase their music will be streamed a lot and they will make revenue. And once again NOBODY IS FORCING YOU TO LISTEN TO STUFF YOU DON"T WANT TO.

 

And you couldn't be more wrong about rnb and hip hop. If hip hop never evolved then rappers would still be walking around with boomboxers wearing adidas track suits lol. It has continued to evolve if you can't tell the differnce between a rapper in the 90s and a rapper now then you clearly aren't as well informed on it as you would like to believe. If hip hop and rnb wasn't evolving then their wouldn't be new artist emerging. Nas, wu tang clan, and LL Cool J was very popular in the 90s but now they aren't as popular as someone like Drake, Kendrick Lamar, and J.cole. It's a genre you don't listen to much clearly. Rock would be an example of a genre of music than hasn't evlolved because it has lost it's cultural impact, and their hasn't been a new popular band in ages. The most popular rock bands today were also the most popular rock bands 20 years ago that is not evolution.  Come back to me when a hip hop or rnb song isn't in the top 10 and i'll agree that it has stopped evolving. And no popularity doesn't mean its high quality music but it does mean its culturally relevant. And hip hop and rnb has been for about 20 years now lol. Things stop evolving when they stop being relevant. As a matter of fact name me 5 rappers  that you have actually listened to that you think all sound the same. 

 

Times have changed rather than be bitter about it use it to your advantage 

 

[Richard Tracey]

1 minute ago, Jenn said:

ohhhhhh you know I consider Kendrick Lamar as one of the current pioneers in the music industry right now. Along with Chance.

 

Then all is lost Jenn.... 

[GuesSs]

Just now, Jenn said:

ohhhhhh you know I consider Kendrick Lamar as one of the current pioneers in the music industry right now. Along with Chance.

Kendrick, Chance, j.cole, Kanye west, Logic, Tyler the Creator, Joey Badass, Isiah Rashad, etc. I could go on and on there are plenty of rappers doing their own thing outside of what is mainstream. You hit the nail on the head Jenn

[GuesSs]

Just now, Richard Tracey said:

 

Then all is lost Jenn.... 

It's ok Jenn the people who actually listen to the genre know whats up

[Richard Tracey]

4 minutes ago, GuesSs said:

I value your experience with music but I do think you are very out of touch with the times. For one you can see the music that is going to be played in the playlist so you know what you're getting yourself into. Or you could just make your own playlist of songs you wanna hear and call it a day. The power is in your hands you don't have to rely on others to pick what you should hear. Unless music companies are controlling your body and making you listen to specific songs it's all up to you. 

 

A lot of these songs wind up on the playlist they do because they are songs that have gotten the most streams from their respective albums. Artist like Adele and T Swfit are on another level at this point in either of their careers they really don't need help from a label to sell.  In fact nobody needs help from a label to sell music and get a lot of streams if you know how to brand yourself and have a strong fanbase.  Regular people can put their songs on spotify and if they have a strong fanbase their music will be streamed a lot and they will make revenue. And once again NOBODY IS FORCING YOU TO LISTEN TO STUFF YOU DON"T WANT TO.

 

And you couldn't be more wrong about rnb and hip hop. If hip hop never evolved then rappers would still be walking around with boomboxers wearing adidas track suits lol. It has continued to evolve if you can't tell the differnce between a rapper in the 90s and a rapper now then you clearly aren't as well informed on it as you would like to believe. If hip hop and rnb wasn't evolving then their wouldn't be new artist emerging. Nas, wu tang clan, and LL Cool J was very popular in the 90s but now they aren't as popular as someone like Drake, Kendrick Lamar, and J.cole. It's a genre you don't listen to much clearly. Rock would be an example of a genre of music than hasn't evlolved because it has lost it's cultural impact, and their has been a new popular band in ages. The most popular rock bands today were also the most popular rock bands 20 years ago that is not evolution.  Come back to me when a hip hop or rnb song isn't in the top 10 and i'll agree that it has stopped evolving. And no popularity doesn't mean its high quality music but it does mean its culturally relevant. And hip hop and rnb has been for about 20 years now lol. As a matter of fact name me 5 rappers  that you have actually listened to that you think all sound the same. 

 

Times have changed rather than be bitter about it use it to your advantage 

 

 

I don't think there is any reason to discuss this further, there is a whole movement out there who feel exactly like I do about the current state of the music industry. What you say above, I will never change your mind on. The subject has been discussed several times on this site about how to get people to hear your music and stream it if it's on any of the sites. It is incredibly difficult without backing even for indie artists who have some kind of publishers backing them. All theses acts that you mention have mega money behind them and people pushing the buttons and pulling the strings. Your favourite genres haven't evolved they hit a point and stopped growing, which is why it all sounds the same. Yes it is popular, but that doesn't mean that it's good. It's like the conversation we have had on here about how most songs are written by committee or the same writing partnerships. They sound the same because that is what is selling I hear people say, well I am sorry but that is a poor excuse for making everything sound the same. Try to experiment, show intelligence in your music and if it is good, people will still like it.

 

I can assure you I am not bitter, I just want other artists to get a fair crack at making it as every other copycat artist getting thrust into the limelight.

 

To get the kind of numbers that you quote, there is a label or someone behind them - if not then every artist would be able to get those numbers.

 

And Rock is Rock it isn't meant to evolve