Issue Based Writing - Protest Anthem

[Cody]

It's fuzzy that small  but yeah I guess it was two headed for a little whlie at least, that poor frog was still alive.......gross and inspirational  and protest/anthem based I supppose  

 

 

Finally going through all my pictures of about the last year and a half.......some good ones I'd forgotten about.

[John W Selleck]

Time to resurrect this one, especially since I just wrote one that fits it. 

 

The Knee

 

In my mind there’s something wrong

With some athletes today

They disrespect our country

Before they’ll even play

I’ll respect them more if

They would help their kind

By fighting for the innocent

Before they speak their mind

 

I will only take a knee------------------} Chorus

When I get down to pray

Not to be self-righteous

Like some folks today

Look at who is killing who

They will surely see

Black on black murder

Is the majority

 

They should be an example

For downtrodden youth

Try to help them understand

What really is the truth

Instead they rally round

The murdered in the streets

The rioting and looting

Ends only in defeat

 

I will only take a knee------------------} Chorus

When I get down to pray

Not to be self-righteous

Like some folks today

Look at who is killing who

They will surely see

Black on black murder

Is the majority

 

In my mind the kneelers-------------} Bridge

Deserve to get the boot

Find another country

Lose all of their loot

 

Instrumental Break

 

I will only take a knee------------------} Chorus

When I get down to pray

Not to be self-righteous

Like some folks today

Look at who is killing who

They will surely see

Black on black murder

Is the majority

 

Copyright 7/2020 John W Selleck

 

[john]

Hi John

 

Flow wise, perhaps consider swapping:

 

That black on black killing

 

for

 

That black killing black

 

For me that has a better flow.

 

I would also consider splitting the verse in two, the second half becoming a pre-chorus / rise. This would suggest to a music writer to make it musically different from the verse, and for it to build / rise towards the chorus.

 

Looking at your verse (as you have them just now) there is a meter difference, a difference in rhythm, that could be an issue melody wise, although it depends on the song genre.

 

For example if we compare the last lines:

 

“Before they speak their mind”
 

and

 

“Why must I repeat”
 

These are different rhythms, and that could cause issues for the melody writer. This is actually the case with several lines in verse 1 and verse 2.

 

You’ve gone for an ABCBDEFE rhyme scheme, which generally works well for sing along songs that we don’t want to be too bouncy. That said, the same scheme when used in the chorus does feel too bouncy for the topic IMO.

 

Chorus wise, you are delivering two messages, which I think is screwing it up. What you have as the second half I think could be the seed of a 3rd verse or a new section. Repeating the “I will only take a knee” would then be a good idea in a new chorus. Perhaps a rhyme scheme like ABCbABDB (with b being a half-rhyme) or ABCBADCD.

 

 

I will only take a knee

When I get down to pray

Not to be self-righteous

Like some folks today
 

*New Section*

Look at who is killing who

You will surely see

That black killing black

Is the majority

[John W Selleck]

9 hours ago, john said:

Flow wise, perhaps consider swapping:

That black on black killing

for

That black killing black

For me that has a better flow.

 

 

Hi John,

Thanks for the read and the thoughtful comments/suggestions. I did change up a couple of lines above for flow. I really didn't like the "Repeat" line for content either.  With the rise, I usually throw in a 2 bar turnaround into the chorus and then give it a different feel with chords and melody and vocal intention, and yes, sometimes a slightly different melody in the verses.

[john]

On 7/12/2020 at 2:51 PM, Patchez said:

So, @john -- who won this and what do they get? July 4th has come and gone... so?  

 

 

 

So... I need to set a new challenge lol

 

Challenges are not generally contests. You challenge yourself, not each other. I try to rotate what skills challenges work on to aid with development as writers, exposing writers to new ideas where possible, deepening understanding or at a minimum, acting as a source of inspiration.

 

They also help members to work together and exchange their experiences with each other.

 

[John W Selleck]

1 hour ago, john said:

 

So... I need to set a new challenge lol

 

Challenges are not generally contests. You challenge yourself, not each other. I try to rotate what skills challenges work on to aid with development as writers, exposing writers to new ideas where possible, deepening understanding or at a minimum, acting as a source of inspiration.

 

They also help members to work together and exchange their experiences with each other.

 

Don't worry John, I have a song for that too. LOL!

[ALOPRODUCTIONZ]

This is not our paradise
Its their game with a pair a dice
I cant deny were paralyzed
Like a can of flies being zapped by light 
I fantasize about a better life
Analyse and recognise
Thru history have we ever rised
Has the whole planet ever unified

They gave us faith a afterlife
They gave us drugs and amplified
They took our faith an hacked the mind
They took what's yours and made it mine
They make it rain they make it shine
They'll take your fame and they'll make it rise
They cause us pain and we say it fine
 

I love luvluv levelling
Get the shovel dash devil in the bin
Skippy with the flow its quite evident
2000an20 they tried to quiet the event
Real 20 12 shift what they trying to prevent
Why you trying to pretend that your phones not the chip

And u cant live without it close to your head
Clones on the world wide web
Tryna suck success from the net got you webbed
On the world wide web
Another clone tryna pose on the world wide web
Did you knowwhen u go and u post on the net
That your changing yourself your id ego death
Chemical reward pathways in your head
Adjust and corrupt who you are in the end
Who are you in the end

 

Every day of the MONTH try and triumph
They cant stop alliance
Something ina my lung feeling
The magnificence
Every day of the MONTH try and triumph
They cant stop alliance
Something ina my lung feeling
The magnificence

 

Fear! over rioting ,citizen escalations (FORCE)
Fighting! Over Run Cities. emancipation  (FORCE)
Failing! over remedy, combination encasement (FORCE)
Force! over rapping, contagious entertainment (FORCE)

 

Don't dadadont tell a ***** radar on riddim cant flow
Cause i control flow with syllables
Structured bars with intervals
Bigger opinion with a bigger cause
Bars like yours are littered thoughts
All you talk is doe and intercourse
I want to hear something intellectual

 

[John W Selleck]

Hi Alo,

Is this to be a regular song, or a rap?It has some interesting lines. I'd like to see how it sings to music.

[ALOPRODUCTIONZ]

40 minutes ago, John W Selleck said:

Hi Alo,

Is this to be a regular song, or a rap?It has some interesting lines. I'd like to see how it sings to music.

it was just intended as rap, although id be interested to hear how the lyrics sound being sung. adding melody to my rap is something im working towards, me being me overthink everything and im still trying to understand the difference between singing and rap. id love my music style to meet in the middle line 

[John W Selleck]

3 hours ago, ALOPRODUCTIONZ said:

it was just intended as rap, although id be interested to hear how the lyrics sound being sung. adding melody to my rap is something im working towards, me being me overthink everything and im still trying to understand the difference between singing and rap. id love my music style to meet in the middle line 

To be honest, I just don't listen to rap, mostly because so much of it is foul/hateful lyrics.

The biggest difference is in singing your words have to match the melody of the song. I prefer that.

[Cody]

On 8/3/2020 at 1:14 PM, ALOPRODUCTIONZ said:

still trying to understand the difference between singing and rap

is there? that dumb useless mythical rulebook thing again me thinks  

 

and as stated really just personal tastes  

 

[m00n]

hello John W Selleck, i just read your protest songs and so i thought i'd song back a bit. yeh this is a protest protest song i guess 

 

take the knee

i cant breathe

take the knee

on george floyds neck

take the knee

i cant breathe

take the knee

until he’s f*cking dead

 

ah but, yes but, ah but, yes but

all lives matter

ah but, yes but, ah but, yes but

all lives matter

 

just another day, shit

so take the knee and pray, kid

god hears you, no translation

but down here they’re gonna take what you just said and then reframe it

to erase you

saying ‘all lives matter’ is what they call a bait switch

all lives dont matter to the cops coz all i ever asked oh lord

please save me save me save me from the sadists

 

complaining about riots, it seems to me

is like switching on the kettle

then complaining when it reaches 100 C

yeh take the knee

 

 

[john]

On 11/13/2020 at 12:21 AM, m00n said:

hello John W Selleck, i just read your protest songs and so i thought i'd song back a bit. yeh this is a protest protest song i guess 

 

take the knee

i cant breathe

take the knee

on george floyds neck

take the knee

i cant breathe

take the knee

until he’s f*cking dead

 

ah but, yes but, ah but, yes but

all lives matter

ah but, yes but, ah but, yes but

all lives matter

 

just another day, shit

so take the knee and pray, kid

god hears you, no translation

but down here they’re gonna take what you just said and then reframe it

to erase you

saying ‘all lives matter’ is what they call a bait switch

all lives dont matter to the cops coz all i ever asked oh lord

please save me save me save me from the sadists

 

complaining about riots, it seems to me

is like switching on the kettle

then complaining when it reaches 100 C

yeh take the knee

 

 

good to have you join the challenge m00n!

 

Is it intended as a through composed song? i.e. no verse, chorus sections, just a constantly evolving, progressive structure? Or have you just not labelled sections?

 

Have you recorded this? Or do you have music for it at all?

 

You have some great and powerful lines in there. I am interested to see how you bring the lyrics and music together.

[m00n]

thanks for the points. yeh i guess i was just reading through the thread and got inspired by what i read and just wrote it out, and i guess in my head it was like a rap. probably thats a cop out on a songwriters forum but im interested in reading through the forum and learning more about how to bring things all together. i like writing lyrics but i guess that's not even half the story when putting a song together.

[Cody]

On 11/15/2020 at 3:22 PM, m00n said:

probably thats a cop out on a songwriters forum

 

😂 Nah, I think learning how to write in a free-verse style as you did above isn't a cop out at all, actually takes more skill than most people are willing to admit, you already had a rhythm in your head I assume? For me some of the most powerful songs don't have a defined "structure" they just are what they are.   Sure you can go and tweak it later to fit into a more "commercial friendly" verse/choruse/etc. structure which serves some things better some things not so much.  I've found personally when I try to make things fit structurally is when any message that may of been indented(usually isn't one) tends to get convoluted. 

[m00n]

Cody i just wanna ask you about which powerful songs dont have a defined structure. i really want to go and check them out. i might even know them you never know. im really in the process now of looking at song structure.

 

what is most typical, writing lyrics after hearing the music, or making music to fit the lyrics? or do songwriters typically do it all together. i can imagine maybe some parts of the industry optimizing it and writing the lyrics afterward over an already understood syllable template. just a big guess tho that.

 

altho otoh  🤣

[Cody]

6 hours ago, m00n said:

Cody i just wanna ask you about which powerful songs dont have a defined structure

That gets into taste  mines pretty random I'll think on that and answer shortly with a few of my favorites, just please don't argue well that's an AAABAABAZ and so and so also did that in 1923 on this super rare 78 that no one has ever heard structure   of course you can call it what you will after its done.    

 

I have 4 or 5 songs in mind but gonna go listen, as far as I know they are just some little twist on the verse2x/chorus/verse/bridge/chorus that's been beat to death. 

 

 

6 hours ago, m00n said:

what is most typical, writing lyrics after hearing the music, or making music to fit the lyrics? or do songwriters typically do it all together. i can imagine maybe some parts of the industry optimizing it and writing the lyrics afterward over an already understood syllable template. just a big guess tho that.

 

altho otoh  🤣

 

I protest your point of getting back on topic

I write what I want when how why I want it

We can spout nonsense all day it all boils down to profits

I profit from creation dollars are the false prophet

 

heh......oopsie did I just do a rap? 😂

 

It all varies from my opinion and experience, some do really well writing lyrics first, lyrics to me are an after-thought I think your top 40 "radio" tunes come mostly from people trying to follow a formula of what has come before and putting lyrics on the template as you stated in your guess  

 

[Cody]

 

I have a touch of bias for this first one, as I will any others I post here............just how it works, shit I like you might not, music I have studied and loved you might not.......critical thinking learn you must!.......un-structured good songs? I can vouch for this one and actually quite a few this band puts out......just count me a fanboi, and also pretty much any rap since the late 70's other than the "bum bum my name is...........bum bum I'm here to say"  until it got appropriated and profitized in the 90s, different story after that some good some bad....... but Indie bands have a long long long history of breaking molds, and they sure as shit didn't start in the 00's when it became cool to be indie..... I know too much back story about Frank Zappa and the mothers of invention, to ever vouch for them, but I can't hate the music that it spawned even if he hit a few weird notes and proclaimed himself a god or whateverthef*ck happened in that lsd laced time period of wannabe gurus hahah...........ugh, I just realized how long this rant is going to be, so I disown all punctuation from here on out, sure to make nobody read farther!     I never mean no structure as just a noise collage while I do love myself a ton of that.......I mean that's all jazz is to me, but I'm fundamentally a rhythm guy, so if there's some rhythm I'll dig it...........actually ex this MM shitshow they've become.......let me introduce you to Captain Beefheart if you've not heard.

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucA3q5VCQW0   <--Beefy and if that ain't a rap and live music near its zenith then disregard me.   I find it funny people trying to cover that band.....not saying I can.....but if you're trying to play that note for note and rhythm you already failed.  

 

Do you know earlier E-40 raps? f*ck I dunno even know if you rap, I only know what you like from your one post my person, if this is all nonsense to you lemme know. I'm not oblivious until it became "hip-hop" and I also don't know shit about "popular" music.  I was lucky enough to meet someone who could make mouth noises like Mike Winslow but also keep rhythm in the early 80s when I was a child myself, so we had fun times when people were pushing me to learn classical piano training which I still say is the worst way to teach someone piano and he could break out some 5/17ths fart noises   ahhhh.........is that long and ungrammatical enough?

 

 

 

[m00n]

captain beefheart! what a discovery. that song is mindblowing tbh. i see what you mean about the structure and stuff. that guy wow, and btw i love his red velvet smoking jacket on that video, i want one of those i think. and tbh, talking about musicians ignoring accepted structural boundaries, what about those red silk trousers. btw its at 2:10 on the video in case anyone wants to hear some world class ullulating. 

 

hey its funny, 'up next' on that you tube link is frank zappa. so im gonna be checking out these guys more and finding their lyrics online and considering them in light of our conversation. cheers for the link nice one and that good times are killing me song

 

yeh i like rap very much and probably any lyrics ive written have been as if they were  a rap. that beatboxing youre talking about is a crazy skill and i like the way they invented musical production that was free coz they got no money. there was great rap in the 80s for sure, a lot of that anti establishment political rap too but i reckon in many ways, the rappers these days have the best lyrics. i think its such a big business now that there are teams of pro writers who work for the label like there is in any other genre, whereas maybe it wasnt so much like that in the early days. i dunno tho tbh.