Are we on the wrong side of the globe to make music?

[TapperMike]

I've had a fascination with Korean Culture for about the last 15 years.  I watch K-dramas and action/adventure movies and tv shows. I listen to K-pop and sometimes I just watch the videos for the production value.  It's through the roof nothing is scrimped on.  They put more money into a 3 minute video then some tv shows here do in a season.

 

Why can they do that there (Korean) And we can't do it here?

[CapM]

I read a book (The Sound Machine) recently and one of the chapters was on K pop - admittedly I had never heard of it.  K-pop is a takeoff on our boy- and girl-bands.  

[MonoStone]

9 minutes ago, HoboSage said:

Trainees may enter an agency through auditions or be scouted, and once recruited are given accommodation and classes (commonly singing, dancing, rapping, and foreign languages such as Mandarin, English and Japanese) while they prepare for debut. Young trainees sometimes attend school at the same time. There is no age limit to become a trainee and no limit to the duration one can spend as a trainee.^{[148][149][150]}

 

They're probably working the life out of them too? Based on what I've seen about the way they run their schools...high achievement but high suicides...

 

Just guessing like... might be wrong.

[Just1L]

16 hours ago, TapperMike said:

 It's through the roof nothing is scrimped on.  They put more money into a 3 minute video then some tv shows here do in a season.

 

Why can they do that there (Korean) And we can't do it here?

 

I've heard of K-pop but not familiar at all with it. This thread presents the most I've ever known. So since I don't know anything about it, I'll ask. What was there in Korea before K-Pop considering the music scene. Is this there first really big venture into that arena? I ask only because if it is, I'd say it's the lack of experience and history with the whole industry which is making it possible. Kind of a "ignorance is bliss" deal. How are the contracts with the performers? Are they fair? Seems like we've been doing this kind of stuff over here for a long time but eventually the performers realized they were getting taken for a ride and when the music stopped, they were left with little. Then lawsuits and industry shakeups. If there is something similar going on there, I'd guess it would only be a matter of time for that scene to catch up, or disintegrate, to what we've got going on here.

[TapperMike]

Re Suicides...

 

Isn't that all of industrialized asia?  I don't know if you've ever watched the Cort documentary about what happened to the workers when they shipped jobs overseas or If you've seen any documentaries about the Chinese labor force and management.  Or for that matter the high stress factor associated within Japanese corporations.  

 

Re Boy/Girl groups...

I've been following it for a very long time now.  Psy doesn't fit into any of the kpop branding.  He's overweight and over the hill.  He dresses in business attire and still He's a huge success everywhere..  With regards to "factory music"  I ask you is it any more of a factory than say.... Motown  or what Phil Spector did or Louis Jordan when is created "Rhythm and Blues Revue's"   

 

It's very polished through out... And the lyrics are actually more grown up than J-Pop or contemporary Mexican music or a great deal of american branded pop music.  (no seriously)  As far as the level of engineering skills they go hand in hand with the production video skills.   Seriously watch a BoA video.

Or PSY 

 

 

As for K-pop of old.... I don't think the world is missing much except for the passionate drumming

 

[TapperMike]

Somewhere in Korea right now there is a guy in a little studio writing and scoring the next big hit and he's not being underpaid.  He's the same as Leiber and Stoller, or Jerome Kern, or Irving Berlin, or Hans Zimmer or Carol King or Neil Sedaka. He might be writing it in Korean (which they intersperse english commonly) or English or Madarin (like EXO)

 

There is also plenty of room for the virtuoso guitar player.  Sungha Jung is about as far from the k-pop movement as it gets.  Yet major artists go to Korea just to play with him.  He's the headliner not Tommy Emanuel or Andy McKee and it's no surprise why.

 

Quite a number of successful young fingerstyle guitarists credit SJ as being their inspiration to play solo guitar.

I know.  I've been thinking of doing a blog just in recognition of fingerstyle players who I think deserve more attention and I've dug into their Bios.  He's not alone.  Even late blossomers like Jeremy Choi are making their mark on the music industry.

 

 

[MonoStone]

16 hours ago, TapperMike said:

Re Suicides...

 

Isn't that all of industrialized asia?

 

I don't know. I just watched a documentary on the school system in South Korea ... they're high achievers, if they survive. 

 

To me the idea of intensive pressurised training for years to become a 'star' is even worse...so...just saying... You can train to be technically perfect but where's the soul in it?... and what happens to the ones that don't make the grade after years of pop training?

 

 

[MonoStone]

17 hours ago, TapperMike said:

Somewhere in Korea right now there is a guy in a little studio writing and scoring the next big hit and he's not being underpaid.  He's the same as Leiber and Stoller, or Jerome Kern, or Irving Berlin, or Hans Zimmer or Carol King or Neil Sedaka. He might be writing it in Korean (which they intersperse english commonly) or English or Madarin (like EXO)

 

There is also plenty of room for the virtuoso guitar player.  Sungha Jung is about as far from the k-pop movement as it gets.  Yet major artists go to Korea just to play with him.  He's the headliner not Tommy Emanuel or Andy McKee and it's no surprise why.

 

Quite a number of successful young fingerstyle guitarists credit SJ as being their inspiration to play solo guitar.

I know.  I've been thinking of doing a blog just in recognition of fingerstyle players who I think deserve more attention and I've dug into their Bios.  He's not alone.  Even late blossomers like Jeremy Choi are making their mark on the music industry.

 

 

 

Listening to/watching that did nothing for me ... maybe my taste or what moves me is weird  It has none of the feeling the original has and it's not original... Talented yes but, I dunno...I don't get why people want to listen to that.

[TapperMike]

I didn't miss anything.

 

You guys expect a record company to pamper every whim you have to offer. Without demonstrating one iota of marketability before hand.

 

I'm going to get back to Sungha Jung for a minute.  The world does not care where you "feel" something from his performance.  The world had made their decision without you... Sorry.  When all the big name fingerpickers far and wide across the globe put SJ on the top of the finger picking mantle.  And you don't think he's that good because he sounds "sterile"  Well he was only 16 when he made that video. No he wasn't forced to study guitar in an underground bunker 17 hours a day with only a bowl of rice as a reward.   Actually he was at first self taught and then.... His English teacher (because they all learn English in Korea)  helped him along in his guitar development.   So Mostly self taught who also..... Writes his own transcriptions.  He doesn't pull it out of mysongbook or somewhere else he pulls it out by ear and actually sits down and writes the score.  Hell only a quarter of the songs I play I write my own transcriptions for and even then I start with a basic melody in notation.  That's the type of player he inspires as well.  Someone willing to transcribe "fingerstyle/ Chord / melody / walking bass " and put it to paper then perform.

 

SJ who has appeared on numerous talk shows in Korea, China, Japan, Australia, Sweden the US and more.....  Also had written scores for TV and movie Drama's  Pretty Damn good for a guy in his 20's who started with nothing.  Yeah he does have good management behind him as talent can only take you so far.

 

And no he is not the cornerstone of the industry.  Yes k-pop is very pop with a sense of maturity that goes beyond your early beatles albums or j-pop.  

 

As for the lifestyle training....   I did not spend my pre teens watching cartoons.  I spent them in a Dojang (Dojo) Studying Tae Kwon Do.  It was something I wanted for me.  I had to pay for it myself with paper routes and cleaning parking lots.  I practiced 2 hours a day and 4 hours on the weekends.  I received my black belt just after my 13th birthday.  I knew kids who would go through the motions for their parents but didn't develop that far for loss of interest.   Same thing with friends who had interests in other fields like Dance classes and piano lessons.   With TKD it actually calmed me down.  I used to have a violent temper with little self control.  That's one of the things it gave me.  I also used to be afraid of large crowds however I was expected to perform in demonstrations and compete in front of hundreds.  Teachers believed in me and allowed me to believe in myself.  I don't know how things are currently in your neck of the woods for the junior high crowd or they used to be....  It was very easy to fall into trouble at that age for me.   Korea also has issues with violent youth.  The training environment keeps them out of harms way and helps them to gain emotional maturity.  

 

Sure we don't have motown anymore..... Disney is still in business propping up the next Hanna Montana.  The CW is also a farming ground for young talent.   Still nothing to the scale as Korea has to offer.

 

 

[CapM]

With all due respect, I would not put him in the same category as a Tommy Emmanuel or the late great Pete Huttlinger.  I perused his youtube channel, and it seems like all of his songs have the same pattern - some nice strumming with a percussive slap on the backbeat.  Admittedly his form today looks better than it did in your video above (I could tell he was self taught by his unorthodox right hand).  Maybe he'll continue to improve his craft - he's still very young.  But as far as virtuosity goes, he's not at the top of the world for fingerpickers just yet.

 

 

 

 

[TapperMike]

Sungha Jung... at age 10

 

[MonoStone]

8 hours ago, TapperMike said:

 The world does not care where you "feel" something from his performance.  The world had made their decision without you... Sorry.

 

Why are you sorry? I don't care what anyone else thinks... I gave my opinion, it's just my own opinion, if you don't agree then ignore it or say so if you like...but don't tell me what 'the world' thinks...most people in the world don't have a clue who he is!

 

Anyway, this is the wrong room for an argument  For the sake of SS I won't be drawn in further... if you want an argument, PM me and I'll ignore that too.

 

Good morning!

 

Byeeeeee