Making Music Spiritual Again

[symphonious7]

I'm starting to see that I don't take music seriously.  It's like... I really do write from my heart I think as far as ideas go, but something in me is just putting it down when I record.  And I can't stop thinking mechanically.  I've been trying to get this vocal for my new song Live or Die (Serve or be a Slave) that I posted in the critique section, and all I can say is it's like... I'm getting it done, with the vocal performance and the takes, but there's no REAL conviction in my voice, and it's because I don't expect my song to do much.  I feel like I'm just throwing out ideas.  But yet I believe the message, and still can't connect it to my heart.  

 

I'm beginning to want to sort of... meditate before I sing or write, I think I'm not centering myself, I think I'm not tapping into the true me, I'm staying up in my head, and analyzing everything like a computer.  I guess what I wanna know is do any of you relate obviously, but for those of you who don't relate or make music from the heart with ease or sing from the heart with ease, do you always connect easily?  Do you have ways to help yourself connect?  It's MOSTLY with my singing, but also guitar playing, I get the takes done, I don't reeeeeally try to SAY something with every note.  Something in me just... isn't believing what I'm doing is important I think.  

 

Just thought this might be a worthy discussion wanted to see what you guys made of this sort of... problem I'm seeing.  

[Richard Tracey]

For me, I normally do a,couple of takes to iron out any issues with the lyrics and then live with the vocal, which isn't the finished one, it is still a guide. It won't be perfect, but it allows me to hear where there are problems, or which parts might need a bit of 'feeling'. The vocals are the hardest part to get right in a song, so I wouldn't worry about things too much at this stage. When you are looking to complete a song, then it might be worth thinking about your set-up and technique then.

 

When I listen to most new songs now, I don't get feeling in the tracks. Most of them are auto-tuned that much, that all expression is either fake or lost from a performance. Another thing they do, which we don't and maybe should, is to 'comp' their performance. The producer will get them to do a range of vocals and then listens to them and picks out all the parts that sound the best, chop them up and paste them together. They will then add or remove gain, volume and whatever else needs done to make them all sound like the same performance.

 

Even artists that are heralded for their voice - Adele and Beyoncé - have this done. Sometimes there can be as many as 100 vocal takes to make up the song you hear (i believe Katy Perry is an example of this). It is a rare singer now who can go in and get the perfect take with one or two goes. We no longer accept flaws in a performance, we strive for perfection, hence auto-tune.

 

So, give that a try... record about 5 vocal takes, by then your vocal chords will have warmed up and you will start remembering the lyrics better, so they flow nicer and if you feel that the way you sang was better on say take 4 for one part of the song, but take 5 had a better chorus for example, then 'comp' them together.

 

I don't know what DAW you are using, but most make this very easy to do. I use Logic and it is very simple - I should start using it myself though, as I try to get the perfect take in one go and sometimes it might take the vocal to go a bit funny and an almost perfect vocal is scrapped.

[symphonious7]

48 minutes ago, Richard Tracey said:

For me, I normally do a,couple of takes to iron out any issues with the lyrics and then live with the vocal, which isn't the finished one, it is still a guide. It won't be perfect, but it allows me to hear where there are problems, or which parts might need a bit of 'feeling'. The vocals are the hardest part to get right in a song, so I wouldn't worry about things too much at this stage. When you are looking to complete a song, then it might be worth thinking about your set-up and technique then.

 

When I listen to most new songs now, I don't get feeling in the tracks. Most of them are auto-tuned that much, that all expression is either fake or lost from a performance. Another thing they do, which we don't and maybe should, is to 'comp' their performance. The producer will get them to do a range of vocals and then listens to them and picks out all the parts that sound the best, chop them up and paste them together. They will then add or remove gain, volume and whatever else needs done to make them all sound like the same performance.

 

Even artists that are heralded for their voice - Adele and Beyoncé - have this done. Sometimes there can be as many as 100 vocal takes to make up the song you hear (i believe Katy Perry is an example of this). It is a rare singer now who can go in and get the perfect take with one or two goes. We no longer accept flaws in a performance, we strive for perfection, hence auto-tune.

 

So, give that a try... record about 5 vocal takes, by then your vocal chords will have warmed up and you will start remembering the lyrics better, so they flow nicer and if you feel that the way you sang was better on say take 4 for one part of the song, but take 5 had a better chorus for example, then 'comp' them together.

 

I don't know what DAW you are using, but most make this very easy to do. I use Logic and it is very simple - I should start using it myself though, as I try to get the perfect take in one go and sometimes it might take the vocal to go a bit funny and an almost perfect vocal is scrapped.

You may have actually really hit the nail on the head.  Cause I'm such a 60's 70's fanatic, that I want THOSE kinds of performances, and I feel like I haven't done my job if I have to cut it up too much, I mean yeah I'll sing the song in like 3 parts, doing the verses and choruses seperate etc, but I try to make sure it's all one good long take or I feel like it's not "real" or something.  But I'm probably holding myself to a standard that I can't achieve, and yeah... I bet I could put together some killer performances if I was doing many takes like you said to pick and choose from.  Not JUST because there'd be so much to mix and match, but because knowing I'm just trying to get information to work with would take that "must get a perfect take" pressure off of me.  Great suggestion, I'll try it!

[symphonious7]

Yeah Tom multiple people keep bringing me to this conclusion that my goals are just unrealistic.  I think that's what kept me from showing people my music for so many years, none of my recordings were flawless masterpieces in my mind, so none of them were worthy to share.  I'm starting to realize that a real musician doesn't think so "pie in the sky" as you say.  Something I didnt explain well that was mixed in with my thoughts on this was how my music was better in ways when I was younger BECAUSE I had such unrealistic expectations.  I fully believed I was making the most important music ever and it would change the world (I wasn't, but I thought I was haha) but that belief cause a LOT of fearless creativity.  And now that I'm older, more realistic, and not thinking of myself as the next big thing, I'm going "well how do I keep perspective but get back that fearless excited feeling again..."  And maybe that won't ever come back, but something more mature will replace it.  But yeah I'm gonna come back to that post again you had great suggestions in there.  

[MonoStone]

Sometimes it's truly from the heart, sometimes it's just going through the motions. For me, trying to write and record a new song each weekend is an addiction. Just another dirty addiction. And If I fail due to lack of time or lack of any good ideas, I am horrible! So I push myself to write and record.... but when I look back through my tracks, the ones that stand the test of time are the ones that were inspired by personal events or some new musical inspiration, where I really felt it.

 

So yes I identify, and recently I've been thinking it's time for me to slow down and only write when a song WANTS to be written. And not least because, I know I'm only doing it for ME anyway... it's not like I'm going to be famous or anything.

 

In your case... Since you sing a religious message, then if you truly believe it why don't you get out and preach it on stage? Get gigging! You seem to have the confidence for it. And if you have that satisfaction you'll probably find you write less as you perform more, and you'll only write when the moment takes you. I dunno.... just a suggestion...

[Pahchisme Plaid]

Are you sure that it's not that you've worked on the song so much that it doesn't feel new and exciting to you?  I know with me vocally, I seem to feel it most as I get the lyrics and melody down enough to be sure of what it is, especially if it hits me personally at the time, but when it becomes overly familiar, I lose some of that.    Maybe a bit of a break from it and then, say your at a service one day or having a discussion with friends and this song pops into your mind as totally relevant and appropriate at that moment, ponder on all of that, then first opportunity, go record.  Just a thought.

[symphonious7]

3 hours ago, MonoStone said:

Sometimes it's truly from the heart, sometimes it's just going through the motions. For me, trying to write and record a new song each weekend is an addiction. Just another dirty addiction. And If I fail due to lack of time or lack of any good ideas, I am horrible! So I push myself to write and record.... but when I look back through my tracks, the ones that stand the test of time are the ones that were inspired by personal events or some new musical inspiration, where I really felt it.

 

So yes I identify, and recently I've been thinking it's time for me to slow down and only write when a song WANTS to be written. And not least because, I know I'm only doing it for ME anyway... it's not like I'm going to be famous or anything.

 

In your case... Since you sing a religious message, then if you truly believe it why don't you get out and preach it on stage? Get gigging! You seem to have the confidence for it. And if you have that satisfaction you'll probably find you write less as you perform more, and you'll only write when the moment takes you. I dunno.... just a suggestion...

Yeah you really do get what I'm saying, I relate heavily to the "addicted to recording" and probably best "waiting till something wants to be written"  I'm just not having fun if I'm not recording something haha  I've thought about gigging... not sure I'd be as confident in it as you think though, something in me really gets nervous whenever I try to actually play with other people.  Though one of these days I will have to force myself to do it, I mean it's just gotta happen before I'm 40 lol  I think in a lot of ways, this is just more of my over analyzations.  I think a lot of times when I see a small problem I think it's a huge one, or something I should address, and then when I address it and get feedback I come to the same conclusion, "I'm tripping over nothing..."  So... yeah, hopefully I'll quit doing that lol

[symphonious7]

2 hours ago, HoboSage said:

I don't know why you didn't ask this in the forum where you requested critique for the song - a thread where you didn't even post the lyric, btw.  But, anyway, in my opinion, the reason your vocals in Live or Die don't sound "right" or sincerely-felt, is because the vocal melody, and the way you sing it, are completely "wrong" for the song.  You sing it great if you're only trying to sing a vocal track for some song which says to the listener: "Hey, listen to me!  I'm cool, sassy and sexy!"  Seriously, that's the vibe of you singing that song.  For example, listen to how you sing the first line - especially  "your way" ending the first line.  You're essentially singing that to god/jesus, right?  Then why the hell do you sound sarcastic?  Hell, the whole song sounds pretty sarcastic - and even pretentious.  How many times do you slide your vocal down to a minor note in this song?  It's a perfectly legit singing technique, but does sliding down to a minor note fit with the theme?  You sang this song in the way you did because it sounded cool to you singing it that way, because your mindset as a singer seems to be to just sing cool-sounding "show-off" vocal tracks for your songs.  These aren't just some songs, Chris.  They're your songs, and through them, you have something important to say.  Don't sing vocal tracks for your songs just because, in and of themselves, they sound cool.  Sing the songs.  The only way to honestly sing your songs, is to sing them like they're coming from deep inside you, because they do, and to sing them in a way that works with the words and the music to convey how you deeply think and feel.  That's how you best "show off."  There's loads of sincerity in your music and in your words.  But, for me, there's not enough in the way you sing your songs.  And, there should be, because you're one helluva singer.

 

Just my opinions.

 

See you really kind of nailed what I'm not satisfied about.  To a point I think you don't quite "get" the song, it IS supposed to be taunting and sarcastic, and it's not being sung to God, it's being sung to mindless masses who ignore God.  It's basically saying "You're gonna glorify God one way or the other so you might as well do it by choice and be a servant, not a slave"  But at the same time, the inflection isn't QUITE right for that.  You're right, I'm doing my usually pouty sexy singer voice that I use on all my songs, when it should be more of a....  the voice of WARNING.  There's a bit too much sarcasm and too little urgency I think, makes the song seem playful when I want it to seem serious and make you think about how you're living etc.  

 

But I think I'm still over thinking, I need to stop making threads like these.  I do it in the middle of the night before I pass out when I'm just... I dunno in that half asleep state, then later I'm just like "UGH, I'm WHINING AGAIN!!!!"  But hey, maybe it helps someone who relates haha

[MikeRobinson]

When you listen to a professionally-produced recording, it might never even occur to you how many people had an integral part in what you hear, nor exactly what it was that they did.  You don't get to hear any of the stem recordings – the stuff that was actually recorded in a studio – and you don't get to peek behind the scenes of writing the song, arranging it, orchestrating it, and so on.  You only hear ... "perfection."  (According to some engineer/producer or another.)

 

 

You're a songwriter.  (Yes, you are a songwriter!)  Your job is to create the idea, and then to produce a good demo of it.  It won't be perfect; it won't be of to-die-for technical quality.  But, it will be yours, and it will probably be quite a bit better than you think, as interpreted by someone who has never encountered it before.

 

No matter what you create, you're always gonna be "too close to it."  You're never really going to be able to look at it objectively.  So, you need to carefully share it ... and to do so entirely without apology of any kind.

[MonoStone]

5 minutes ago, symphonious7 said:

 Though one of these days I will have to force myself to do it, I mean it's just gotta happen before I'm 40 lol

 

Go for it!  If you need a band then it'll take time to get it together...a lot of time! .... if that's the direction you want to go then there's no time to lose! You have songs already... and from the videos I've seen of yours I think you're a natural performer and entertainer. A solid tight drummer and bass player would be enough to just keep it together while you do your thing I'd guess.

 

Not that 40 should be a deadline but... easier when you're younger for sure.

[symphonious7]

9 minutes ago, MonoStone said:

 

Go for it!  If you need a band then it'll take time to get it together...a lot of time! .... if that's the direction you want to go then there's no time to lose! You have songs already... and from the videos I've seen of yours I think you're a natural performer and entertainer. A solid tight drummer and bass player would be enough to just keep it together while you do your thing I'd guess.

 

Not that 40 should be a deadline but... easier when you're younger for sure.

Thanks for the encouragement!  And the 40 thing was a joke haha in reality I hope to have a band within the next year or two, just gotta have faith!

[symphonious7]

28 minutes ago, Jenn said:

go get ur butt on stage

hahahaha  Ok fine, let me get my keys......

 

You know I think I get now what I was originally posting this for, and I also think I get what I must do.  What bothers me is when like MonoStone said, I start making music to make music and going through the motions.  These new ideas are not like that, but I feel like having a production with emotional or connective flaws makes it not worth anything.  THAT'S the part I need to get out of my FREAKIN head.  Just because it sounds like a demo and it's not perfect, does not mean it could not still have immense emotional value.  I have been seeing it similarly to the weigh you'd feel about a broken TV set.  "Well you can see the picture more or less, but it's so full of static and fuzziness it's not worth watching, wait till you can see the REAL thing"  THAT'S how I've been seeing it, and that it what must go.  My music can not be better than it can be right now, it may get better later, but for now this is my music, and I should simply make it the best I can, learn from feedback, and keep going.  

 

You guys are ALWAYS helpful when I do this "post my late night dwellings about my musical dilemmas" thing.   I really appreciate it.  You all have great insights, something in me feels like this was the final elbow to what was making me feel unconfident though.  I get it.  It's not the best music right now, it's not the worst, it's what I do. And I should do it.  

[symphonious7]

Well now that I got that figured out (it seems to be the root of what's been bugging me the past oh I dunno, 7 years) I feel much lighter.  I feel I can take my music seriously again, and you know what that makes me feel like?  It makes me feel like coming into all of your threads, and just spreading my weirdness around like I love to do so very VERY much.  I bet you guys can't WAIT.  

 

[symphonious7]

15 hours ago, Pahchisme Plaid said:

Are you sure that it's not that you've worked on the song so much that it doesn't feel new and exciting to you?  I know with me vocally, I seem to feel it most as I get the lyrics and melody down enough to be sure of what it is, especially if it hits me personally at the time, but when it becomes overly familiar, I lose some of that.    Maybe a bit of a break from it and then, say your at a service one day or having a discussion with friends and this song pops into your mind as totally relevant and appropriate at that moment, ponder on all of that, then first opportunity, go record.  Just a thought.

I never saw this Pahchisme!  Sorry bout that.  And yes that DOES play a role, my problem was deeper though, and I really do think I figured it out.   Might be a bit hard to explain but just, I think my perspective just shifted from "dreamer" to "realist".  When I was comparing my tracks to the dream, they never made the grade and I thought that was the goal.  But now that I have a REALISTIC perspective on what I can do and what I can't, and a true understanding that that's FINE, it's how MOST musicians have to do it, I feel like I can quit over thinking and just start creating.  

[Pahchisme Plaid]

Yes!  Create!  That's where you're happiest, right?  When you're in the zone?  Enjoy the zone...may the zone be with you!  (The rest you can do at non-zone times). 

[symphonious7]

Just now, Pahchisme Plaid said:

Yes!  Create!  That's where you're happiest, right?  When you're in the zone?  Enjoy the zone...may the zone be with you!  (The rest you can do at non-zone times). 

I will be sure to be very conscientious when it's zone times and not zone times.  I wouldn't want to break the system.   

[Rudi]

16 hours ago, Pahchisme Plaid said:

Are you sure that it's not that you've worked on the song so much that it doesn't feel new and exciting to you?  I know with me vocally, I seem to feel it most as I get the lyrics and melody down enough to be sure of what it is, especially if it hits me personally at the time, but when it becomes overly familiar, I lose some of that.    Maybe a bit of a break from it and then, say your at a service one day or having a discussion with friends and this song pops into your mind as totally relevant and appropriate at that moment, ponder on all of that, then first opportunity, go record.  Just a thought.

 

I can understand this. I have to try to work reasonably quickly, or I will lose the zest to perform.

If I did 100 takes, the last 90 might be workmanlike, but without feeling.

 

Of course some people can sound passionate because they use sobs and such as part of their technique. Its false, but can be very effective nevertheless.

[Pahchisme Plaid]

20 minutes ago, Rudi said:

I can understand this. I have to try to work reasonably quickly, or I will lose the zest to perform.

If I did 100 takes, the last 90 might be workmanlike, but without feeling.

Here's where there is a distinction (one of many), that helps me to clearly identify my role.  I am not a performer.  I'm a creator.  I love to create!  I don't love to perform.  Sometimes creating involves getting a recording down, but I am awed with those who can carry all that emotion repeatedly.  Youth helps I think.  I might have pulled it off when I was younger--more energy, but I didn't/don't have a performer personality, drive, or training. I think if you're a performer-type, it's obvious early on with the personality, energy, drive, ability  and pull in that direction.  Writing is perfect for my introverted personality, my low key, in the background, observing and pondering tendencies.  I couldn't imagine doing what performers do on a large scale.  I could maybe pull off a few performances for kicks, but as a lifestyle--no way!!  No desire at all there for me.  I think you have to be DESIGNED for it and included in that design is that very ability--not saying all the time--writers go dry, too, but to even have the energy, it's got to be built in.

[symphonious7]

3 minutes ago, Pahchisme Plaid said:

Here's where there is a distinction (one of many), that helps me to clearly identify my role.  I am not a performer.  I'm a creator.  I love to create!  I don't love to perform.  Sometimes creating involves getting a recording down, but I am awed with those who can carry all that emotion repeatedly.  Youth helps I think.  I might have pulled it off when I was younger--more energy, but I didn't/don't have a performer personality, drive, or training. I think if you're a performer-type, it's obvious early on with the personality, energy, drive, ability  and pull in that direction.  Writing is perfect for my introverted personality, my low key, in the background, observing and pondering tendencies.  I couldn't imagine doing what performers do on a large scale.  I could maybe pull off a few performances for kicks, but as a lifestyle--no way!!  No desire at all there for me.  I think you have to be DESIGNED for it and included in that design is that very ability--not saying all the time--writers go dry, too, but to even have the energy, it's got to be built in.

Very well said, what sucks is, even when it's "built in" you don't always know how to reach it lol

[Pahchisme Plaid]

9 minutes ago, symphonious7 said:

Very well said, what sucks is, even when it's "built in" you don't always know how to reach it lol

It's not just you, Symph.  Writers have an equivalent dry spells.  It's (hopefully) a temporary thing relating to various circumstances--heck, it could be being overtired or hormonal or what you ate for supper the night before.  I wouldn't sweat it (that just makes it worse).  Just work on what inspires you at the moment and hopefully it will work itself out. 😬