Kel

So far, I've critiqued a few lyrics and songs here on Songstuff, as many as I could squeeze in at work. I'm home now, so the first thing I do is check Songstuff again! No reply on any of my topics or posts, so it's into my music for a while... Cheers, Kel

Not mentioned above, but be careful with reading music. Whoa, calm down everyone! I received piano lessons as a kid, and as such I learned to read music. Maybe it's just me, but I always used my ability to read music, I believe to the detriment of my ear. I have never been able to listen to something, and then play it, like a know a lot of peeps who don't read music can. To, it appears related, it may not be, but from my perspective it is. If you read music now, get really good at it. If you don't read music now, don't learn if you want to be a musician only. If you want to write, and being on this forum I'm guessing that's a yes, learn as much theory as you can digest. However I know songwriters who aren't big on theory, so pay your money and makes your choices! I also play guitar, never recieved a formal lesson, but was shown basics by friends, and I have watched videos on You-tube and bought video lessons. A good teacher will be a tremendous boost to you, I'm guessing. Cheers, Kel

Your song doesn't do anything for me, but that's a genre thing more than anything else. As posters above say, your voice has good tone and timbre, so that's working for you. But if you really want to make money you need to write/play/pitch songs the radio stations want, not what you want. Once you're rich and famous you can showcase your art, but till then, give 'em what they want! I've heard absolute CRAP on the radio, so I think anything CAN make money. Luck and hard work seem to be the main ingredients to success. And of course there's the old catch phrase, "The harder I work, the luckier I get." Good luck, mate. I wish you every success. Kel

Interesting discussion. I went to a festival the other night where there was 10 hours of country music in one venue. Had an incredible night, and loved every act, and they were all different. However, none of them played what might be called "traditional" country, and that got me thinking, what is "traditional" country? Like most things, traditions evolve too. Once I looked back to Hank Williams, Tammy Wynette, Patsy Cline, Loretta Lynn, and their contemporaries as "traditional". Probably because they were at their peaks before I came along, or at least began to appreciate music. These days when I think "traditional" I think Glenn Campbell, Tom T Hall, Johnny Cash, Kenny Rogers, Dolly Parton etc. A generational shift I'm sure. I am sure one day, they'll remember back to the good ol' traditional players like Shania Twain and Taylor Swift, but not yet. I think most of us think back around 20 years as being the golden age of music, like us, that 20 years ago just keeps moving forward, evolving, and finding new styles, new beats, and new fans. Cheers, Kel

Hi everyone. I have a dilemma! I have a project that I'm working on and I'm fairly happy with the musical side of it. However, I have two completely different sets of lyrics that explore different themes, that I can't choose which way to go. One is about a woman getting out of an abusive relationship. I've had two exes who came from abusive relationships, so this is a fairly important theme for me. The other is about an outlaw type getting even with a bunch of guys who gave him a beating. Okay, there is violence in both versions, but them themes are completely different. I am hoping our community might help me decide which direction to focus on. Version 1. Never More Knocked around and I got-ta say Been knocked around too long Beat so bad I was cough-in' blood and I couldn't hardly walk. What kind of man has to show his love in this cave man kind of way That's right boy now I got some nerve, An-d I got this to say-ay-ay-ay Never more will it happen boy Never more you'll see Never more will you knock me down You got nothin' over me! Is-n't just the things you do It's all those things you say. Put me down and you keep me there In a dark and lone-ly place. What kind of man has to show his love in this cave man kind of way? That's right boy now I got some nerve, A-nd I got this to say-ay-ay-ay Never more will it happen boy Never more you'll see Never more will you knock me down You got nothin' over me! One last time and you crossed the line And I ain't gon-na take no more Watch me boy as I make my stand And walk right out that door! Never more will it happen boy Never more you'll see Never more will you knock me down You got nothin' over me! Never more will it happen boy Never more you'll see Never more will you knock me down You got nothin' over me! Version 2. No Good Way Good ol’ boys got the jump on me,they really got me good Beat so bad I was cough-in’ blood And I could-n’t hard-ly walk. Came the time to Re-turn in kind What those ol’ boys did that day, hunt them down Where they gone to ground And made those ol’ boys pay! No good way will it ev-er end, No good way, it's true. No good way it can ev-er end When I raise my gun on you. Took a while to per-fect my plan I took them one by one In their crib or out on the road There was no-where they could run. When I caught up And they threw down On-ly one way it could end There just ain’t no way They could get a-way From my ol' Rem-ing-ton. No good way will it ev-er end, No good way, it's true. No good way it can ev-er end When I raise my gun on you. Took a while to per-fect my plan, I took 'em one by one In their crib or out on the road There was no-where they could run In their time wh-en They threw down On-ly one way it could end No good way They could get a-way From my ol' Rem-ing-to-o-o-on. No good way will it ev-er end, No good way, it's true. No good way it can ev-er end When I raise my gun on you. Don’t ever think to cross me, here Is a lesson you will want to learn No good way you can get away When buck shot fills the air No good way will it ev-er end, No good way, it's true. No good way it can ev-er end When I pull my gun on you. No good way will it ev-er end, No good way, it's true. No good way it can ev-er end When I pull my gun on you. Never More Version 1 - Full.mp3 And the music is attached. There may be some minor phrasing differences that I address separately, but you'll get the idea, I'm sure. Thanks in advance for your input. Cheers, Kel

There is a school of thought that you should write as many songs as you possibly can. More if possible! Of course, a lot of them will be, well, lousy. But maybe in there, buried deep in the pile, is a gem. I don't know if I agree with that school of thought or not, but I do recall a quote from George Harrison that I'll paraphrase... "... it took me a while to write songs as good as John and Paul; they'd been at it longer, and had already written all their bad stuff before I met them". Something that I haven't seen in the replies so far is DO NOT SCRAP ANYTHING! Keep it all. Every word, every note, every idea. As an example, I have a folder on my hard drive just for songwriting. And each song project has it's own folder. All versions, even the bad ones, are held on to. I regularly review everything, just in case an idea I had may help out another project. Therefore if I were you offer anything, organise yourself to keep everything you do. Cheers, Kel

Assuming: C=1, D=2, etc following the C maj scale as per the notation available (the G's aren't sharped, so I rule out Am), and that the note value of a rest is 0+ the time value, my answer is 27327/32. Of course, if the note value into the second octave is 8 to 15, my answer is shot to pieces. It took me long enough to come up with this answer (and there are reasons I never became an accountant!) I'm not going to cover that possibility. My breakdown is: 14+1/2 | 30+1/2 | 2+17/32 | 7+1/2 | 17+1/2 | 6+1/2 | 16+1/2 | 6+1/2 | 18+1/2 | 56+1/2 | 29+19/32 | 29+19/32 | 23+5/8 | 9+1/2 | 6+1/2 || (All calculations performed in my poor old brain... now I need a coffee!) Cheers, Kel

Country heart in a city house here. You' ain't alone, Missy! Cheers, Kel

Funny really, it didn't work at all for Frankie Laine when he wrote "Battle Of New Orleans"!, But then it seems to have worked for Tchaikovsky (excuse spelling, please!) about the same year... 1812!

Hi, I've use Music Xray a few times. I don't get to hear much feedback on my songs, so I'll send them off to one of the "song critique" submissions. The free ones aren't worth the $4 admin fee, and the low price ones $4-6 give reasonable, if very unspecific feedback, but it's generally enough to know if I'm on the right track or not. I certainly don't send them every song I write, or send the same song to a dozen different "opportunities". I know you didn't ask it, but I'll offer it anyway... the best critique I have received by far from any service available on the internet was from Jason Blume. You can Google him to find his site. I sent a song away, paid $30 and received a voice recorded critique that was specific, constructive and extremely helpful. The reviewer (it wasn't Jason, himself) went through the lyrics, the verses, chord progressions, chorus and bridge all separately and also gave me an overall guide to what was good and what I needed to revisit. I tell you, it was well worth the money! And yes, I'll use his service again. Of course, a live audience is the best source for a critique in my opinion, as long as they aren't friends or family, they tend to either over criticize or over praise from what I've seen. Cheers, Kel

I don't even know most of the songs mentioned so far! Geez! Me & Bobby McGee - Kris Kristofferson Pretty Woman - Roy Orbison Viva Las Vegas - Doc Pomus & Mort Shuman Baby's Gotten Good At Goodbye - Tony Martin & Troy Martin Take it Easy - Jackson Browne & Glen Frey Happy Birthday - somewhere in the world, it gets sung every day! Cheers, Kel

Every songwriter likes to write a new song. At least I know I do! But when do YOU say you've done it? And I'm not talking about rewite after rewrite - I'm talking about when you think it's finished, what form is it in? For me, I don't say "I've written a song," until it's pretty much all in place - lyrics, melody, chords and properly notated, usually with a simple bass and drum rhythm section. I use Guitar Pro myself, so it's easy to add all that in. When I was younger I used manuscript paper and a pencil, and always wrote for piano with vocals separate - 3 staves. From Intro to Coda... all the way. I know some people who write down some lyrics, hum a tune till they like it, and note some chords down over the lyrics and say they've written a song. I'm not saying they're wrong, or that I'm right... but I'm interested to hear about when other songwriters consider their songs written?

Ebony Eyes / Bob Welch

Sorry everyone, didn't realise I wasn't on the last post... it made sense on the last post of the first page.! NOOB!!!!

Don't let the sun go down on me - Elton John Let's not go anywhere near the Radiators song, shall we? What is the rating here? PG13?

1. Do you sing, play an instrument or instruments? I play Keyboards (trained in classical piano as a kid... not for long though), guitar, bass. I also have harmonicas and a tambourine, but I can't say I can "play" the harp yet. When did you start playing? I started piano lessons around 8 or 9. Trained for 2 years then quit because I didn't like the teacher. At around 16 I went to lessons again, mainly for timing etc, I was learning pop songs from the time (1975ish) Did you teach yourself? I am self taught on guitar and bass, though I have used video lessons on the internet recently. 2. Are you in a band or bands I've only been in a band that backed the choir at school, though I have jammed a bit. 3. Do you write songs? Oh yeah, and then some. I wrote my first song at 17 and took it to my school music teacher for some help. She gave me a couple of pointers and then told me I'd be performing it at the end of year speech night. When I woke up, I asked for a singer, and she introduced me to a younger kid who played guitar and sang for me. From memory, he was flat, and we should have transposed it down a few notes. Do you write lyrics, music or both? I write both music and lyrics, sometimes one and sometimes the other. I have days that the tune comes and words don't, and others where the words come but I can't put a melody to it. Do you have a writing partner? I don't currently have a collaborator, but I joined a social group called Brisbane Keychangers who consist of local songwriters, so I'm hoping. 4. Do you record your music? My lack of singing ability frustrates me no end. Having said that, I've spent some time tonight listening to recordings by other unpublished writers and I'm getting all inspired to develop my voice some. Do you use a home studio? If so what gear do you use? Do you use a recording studio? Brisbane Keychangers have a monthly get together at a studio. I've only been to one so far, and had a blast. Do you have music available on the web? if so where? If my midi files are accepted here, soon they'll be here! 5. What other roles do you perform in the music business? Management? Label owner? Publishing? Promotion? Other? 6. Are you a tech head? Nah! 7. What country do you live in? Australia 8. What are your ambitions? I'd like to be invited to the Grand Ol' Opry to perform my songs, hang on, that's a dream... No real ambitions, but wouldn't it be good to live off royalty checks! 9. Do you draw/paint/write stories/computer art/dance or other creative pursuits? I wrote a novel a few years back, but it never got published. Well, not for profit anyway. I found it on the internet one day. And I NEVER POSTED IT! I submited it to a handful of agents, and only one ever got back to me. Said something about my portrayal of Americans was unbelievable! I wrote back saying I dealt with Americans just like I had portrayed every day. Never heard back. Go figure! (No it wasn't disrespectful...my heroine was American!) What are your pastimes? What are they? Between writing songs, playing Warcraft and watching television I hardly have time to work! 10. What would you like to get out of Songstuff? Famous! No, not really. Honest appraisal. Support, Ideas. Collaboration. Entertainment. Fun. All that jazz!