DonnaMarilyn

I concur with what the others have said, Carrie. You have a very pleasing voice. I so envy that you can play guitar as well.

Not able to access the video, Carrie. The message says 'This video is private'.

Exellent topic, Anthony. I really like that exercise Clay offered up. Other great sources (for title/hooks as well as song ideas) are newspaper headlines/articles. Two others - that I've made extensive of - are the sites postsecret.com and dearoldlove.com, especially during the FAWM and50/90 songwriting challenges. Absolute treasure troves. Donna

Nickamandote, I'm entirely with you on not setting a deadline for a finished product (unless of course a co-writer needs the lyric or music by a certain time). An intense period devoted to writing or composing, however, can result in very workable drafts that have the potential to be revised and made into good songs. This has been my own and others' experience. For instance, some lyrics - the drafts of which I began during FAWM or 50/90 challenges a year or two ago - have recently been transformed into quite decent finished songs.

Mike, you've touched on an interesting point: writing to a deadline (and as an ex-journo, I particularly relate). I've recently completed my fourth 50/90 challenge, which runs each year from July 4th until October 1st. A three-month-long inspired, creative frenzy, the goal of which is to produce 50 songs (or lyrics) in 90 days. It's not a competition - simply a personal challenge. Some folks finish right on the 50, others with fewer and others with - often many - more songs. They're not polished products, of course. Fine-tuning comes later. But the products are drafts that might otherwise never have been written. And we continually surprise ourselves, often with amazing way-out-of-our-comfort-zone pieces. Here's the link for the 50/90. http://fiftyninety.fawmers.org And in the same spirit of zaniness, we all get together for the winter version, which is FAWM (February Album Writing Month). The goal of this one is 14 songs/lyrics in 28 days. http://fawm.org

Carrie, if you click on the 'Rich Blend' link under my signatures, it'll take you to my Reverbnation page. The first two songs on the list are country: 'Her 'Tude 'N Her Twang' and 'One Tear Don't Mean A Heartbreak'. (There might be another couple scattered in among there as well.) If you scroll down the list, you'll find folk songs like 'Deep Blue Chill', 'If I Were A Sailor', and 'By Lake and By Lee'. I also have a bunch of folk lyrics waiting for a good home. I think I'll post a couple of country lyrics here for feedback, then see about finding co-writers. Pleased I could be helpful with Georgia Peach. I love the mutual constructive feedback on songwriting forums like this one.

Carrie, country is a genre I very much enjoy writing in (though I don't think I've posted any of my country lyrics here). I do have several, though, as well as a few finished country songs. I also write a lot of folk. In fact, I write across several genres.

I'm a lyrics-only (well, sometimes the melody) person, so after writing (and revising) a lyric, I send it off to a co-writer for music/arrangement/vocals. If it comes back sounding like a 'keeper', I send it to a music library. In this case, it's MusicDealers.com. Last year they licensed a song of mine for an episode in the US TV series 'Hell Cats'. I was tickled pink. I submit other songs to various pitch opportunities, including through TAXI. (Had a couple of 'forwards' there recently - for heavy-metal songs, of all things - though likely nothing will come of them.) For the most part, though, I simply share my songs on a site or two where I hope folks might enjoy them.

As to which word in line 2 should be stressed, it depends upon the context. If you're referring to you/the singer in comparison to someone else, you would stress the "I" rather than "am". If you're arguing with someone who claims you're not the best, you'd stress "am". By the same token, you could leave both "I" and "am" unstressed and simply stress "best" if you want to emphasise this aspect of yourself. Sung lyrics should follow the cadence of natural spoken conversation, but context/meaning will determine which words are to be emphasised. (Just remembered this is an Olympic theme. Probably "I' should be emphasised", maybe along with "best". Decisions, decisions... No doubt others will chime in. Donna

Carl, as well as the books mentioned in the section to which John gave you the link, for getting into a creative mindset, I can recommend the following: The War of Art by Steven Pressfield The Artist's Way by Julia Cameron Writing Down the Bones by Natalie Goldberg Made to Stick by Chip & Dan Heath (Though not necessarily about writing lyrics, many of the ideas are quite pertinent.) Donna

How can you be sure none of the very good lyricists here have never studied others' lyrics or read anything about crafting lyrics? Perhaps a poll should be conducted. And how would you define "good"? I think what it boils down to, Alex - and you mentioned this earlier as well - is that some people simply have "a way with words", a certain aptitude that they're born with. Others do not, and never will have, no matter how many books they read or writing courses they take. However, they can learn technical skills and improve their craft - and this is wonderful, even though the magic that makes certain artists masters might never be there. Same with music, I'm sure, and any other art or craft. One can become proficient to a certain standard, but not everyone will be Django Reinhardt (who played exquisite jazz guitar despite two partially paralyzed fingers), or a Michelangelo, or a Shakespeare (who it's claimed was actually a woman, Mary, Countess of Pembroke, but I digress ), or Jimi Hendrix, or whoever. As far as poets go, to my mind, one of the most brilliant poets today is the "nature poet", Mary Oliver. Her work brings me to my knees. I couldn't come within a million miles of her talent, insight, and sensitivity, but I'm not going to stop writing and learning simply because other people do it better than I do. And I have to say that I've learned so much from reading and studying other people's work, and even by critiquing, because it helps me to recognise flaws in my own work. I don't see it though as a question of people choosing a path to take - i.e. either studying the craft or not studying the craft. Why would anyone choose to remain ignorant of tools that would help improve proficiency? I see it more as learning what the rules and guidelines are and then choosing how to implement them, or not, as the case may be. But in most cases, not knowing the rules/guidelines amounts to lazy and ineffective writing. I agree. This is an interesting topic, and it makes for an enjoyable exhange. Donna

I'm with Alex that a writer needs to write, write, write, practise the craft rigorously. But what good does it do if - without any kind of guidance or reference (whether books or good lyrics as an example) the writer makes the same mistakes repeatedly? How does this help the person become a better writer? I'd suggest there's a greater danger of a writer learning bad habits that will be all the more difficult to lose later. It's the same with any craft or trade. What's the point in writing dozens of lyrics that would need to be substantially revised, rather than taking a couple of hours to read a book (or watch an online tutorial or attend a reputable workshop) by someone knowledgable and proficient in the craft? I don't feel there's a danger of an aspiring lyricist losing her or his way just because she/he read a few books on songwriting. On the contrary, the books listed above, for instance, simply demonstrate the tools of the craft. What the author does with those tools remains personal and unique. They help the writer to express more efficiently what she/he wants to say.

I've not tried either of these techniques, John, but I intend to now. I'll post what I come up with (if it's anything of interest). I think they're excellent ideas. One excerise I love is to take randomly generated phrases/lines and then stitch them together to create a half-way coherent story. When I take part in the FAWM (February Album Writing Month) or 50/90 (50 songs in 90 days) challenges, I head straight to the "Muse Titular Tool" if I'm running short of ideas. It saves the day every time. http://muse.fawm.org/titular Another fun random titles/ideas generator is (now corrected link): http://www.leonatkinson.com/random/index.php/lyrics.html Throw any piece of text into the "Translator" window, hit "Translate", and see what zaniness emerges. Not everything is useful, but now and again intriguing lines are thrown up that elicit out-of-the-box visual imagery. Donna

Thanks for posting those links, John, and the extra one for Sheila Davies. Also an excellent book. Another one of hers I can recommend is "The Songwriters Idea Book". And two additional resources: TuneSmith:Inside the Art of Songwriting" by Jimmy Webb "6 Steps to Songwriting Success" by Jason Blume Each of these and the other books can be purchased second-hand and very cheaply. Here's a link to some of Pat Pattison's videos. Pat Pattison videos Donna

I'm with Alex as regards lyrics being better if they come from "someone with a natural aptitude for writing". Not everyone has this, just as not everyone has a natural aptitude for photography or ice-skating or carpentry or mathematics or playing a musical instrument well. I also agree that lyrics are best coming from a place where the author has experienced the situation or emotion or can imagine what it's like. In fact, this is essential. But unless an aspiring lyricist can distinguish between what constitutes a poem and a lyric, and understands what makes either format work optimally, he/she may find it difficult to reach a target audience - if that's the goal - or to become an effective writer of lyrics. Luckily, we can all learn to be better at everything we do. Lots of wonderful resources available, including thousands of well-written songs, the lyrics of which are worth studying closely. Here are a few other resources. Songwriting for Dummies edited by Peterik, Austin & Bickford Popular Lyric Writing by Andrea Stolpe Writing Better Lyrics by Pat Pattison Songwriting: Essential Guide to Lyric Form and Structure by Pat Pattison Songwriting: Essential Guide to Rhyming by Pat Pattison Writing Better Words for Your Songs by Rikky Rooksby (who's also written an excellent book on writing songs with guitar) Any of Pat Pattison's online teaching videos are good as well. Donna

I hear where you're coming from, MP. Jimmy Webb's famous "McArthur Park" is a good example of a song not making any kind of objective sense. It's "meaning" is what the listener himself/herself brings to the table. As to correct grammar, etc: The genre will indeed dictate. Myself, I love writing in the vernacular. One of my own favourite songs has lines in it like: "Me and Johnny"/"Was childhood friends"/"We done a lotta dreamin' ", and so on. The vernacular can lend flavour and authenticity to a lyric, but it needs to be consistent and appropriate to the genre (e.g. country/bluegrass, etc.). Donna

Good topic, John. Here are two online resources that give reasonable examples and descriptions of the basic differences between a poem and a lyric. http://www.songlyric...lyricorpoem.htm http://andreastolpe....rics-or-poetry/ In another life, my focus was on short stories and poetry. When I made the transition to lyrics, I found I needed to take certain things into account. Below are just a few examples (bearing also in mind that the selected genre will play a role in determining the appearance and content of a lyric). DISCLAIMER: Others here may have experienced things differently. - The story needs to be expressed clearly; unlike with poetry, the listener doesn't have the luxury of time to stop and try to work out what a particular line means. The story should be coherent, consistent, and progress in a logical manner. Human beings are hard-wired to try to make sense of things. - The words need to be understood by the average listener. This does not mean 'dumbing down' lyrics; it means selecting the vocabulary most likely to make sense to the listener in the shortest time. Here, genre will play a role. For instance, a prog-rock/New Age lyric will be quite different from a pop-rock or country lyric. - Structure is necessary so that the composer/vocalist can build the music around it; the listener will be waiting for certain kinds of repetitions. I realised that I needed to learn the functions of various sections of a lyric: rhyming, scansion, verse, chorus, bridge, outro, intro, and so on. I spent time studying well-known lyrics to determine how the lyrics (and music) achieved their particular impact. - Many lyricists (like myself) don't play a musical instrument. Hence, it's particularly important that lyrics have an inherent flow and consistent scansion/metering so that the lyrics will "sing off the page" and appeal to the musician/vocalist who may be asked to provide the bedtrack and melody. - Certain 'rules' or guidelines are imposed on lyrics so that the song will have maximum impact in a short period of time. These guidelines in NO way stifle creativity: on the contrary, they push lyricists to be even more creative, to think outside the box, so that their work will be fresh, original, and compelling even within the parameters of 'rules/guidelines'. And once a lyricist learns the rules, and has become adept at writing, she/he can bend or ignore them. But first - as with any craft or skill - it's necessary to learn them, because they're the key to what will capture and hold listener interest. Of course, if you're writing simply for yourself/family/friends, and with no thought of reaching a wider audience, you can write any way you want to. - The lyric - again depending on the genre - needs to fit within a certain time frame. In the beginning, the hardest thing was to reduce the story from, say, 15 verses to 6 at the most (and including a chorus and perhaps a lyrical bridge). With a lyric, I couldn't indulge in rambling on the way I might have in an abstract poem. I needed to hook the listener quickly, make my point, entice (I hoped) the listener to care, and then bow out. There were other things as well, but in summary, it's been about learning a certain kind of discipline. Transitioning from poetry to lyrics doesn't mean forfeiting one's command of the language, creativity, feel for words, or love of metaphor, similes, and other poetic devices, and so on. On the contrary. These are essential for writing effective lyrics in any genre. It means knowing how to apply these most effectively in a form that will appeal to a listener rather than just a reader. I hope the above ramble is useful. Donna

An interesting thread. Cosises, I agree about no straightforward objective meaning. As to "meaningless", Tambarskjelve, human beings are hard-wired to try to make "sense" out of things. At the most basic level, it's necessary for survival. Thus, the reader/listener will always bring to the table her/his interpretation of anything (Jimmy Webb's famous "McArthur Park" springs to mind; the first time I heard it, I "knew" exactly what it meant, because it touched certain chords/references in me personally. No doubt others "knew" the meaning in a completely different way.) One excerise I love is taking randomly generated phrases/lines and then stitching them together to make something half-way coherent. Whenever I take part in the FAWM (February Album Writing Month) or 50/90 (50 songs in 90 days) challenges, I head straight to the "Muse Titular Tool" when I find I'm running short of ideas. It's saved the day more than once. http://muse.fawm.org/titular Another fun random titles/ideas generator is: http://www.leonatkinson.com/random/index.php/lyrics.html Throw any piece of text into the "Translator" window, hit "Translate", and see what zaniness emerges. Not everything is useful, but now and again some really interesting images are thrown up. Donna

Paper Roses - Anita Bryant 1960

I see this post is a couple of months old. Well, here goes anyway. Lots of excellent books out there, but some that I've found particularly helpful have been: Songwriting for Dummies edited by Peterik, Austin & Bickford Popular Lyric Writing by Andrea Stolpe Writing Better Lyrics by Pat Pattison Songwriting: Essential Guide to Lyric Form and Structure by Pat Pattison Songwriting: Essential Guide to Rhyming by Pat Pattison Writing Better Words for Your Songs by Rikky Rooksby (who's also written an excllent book on writing songs with guitar) I hope these are useful. Donna