BongStuff

I think going for a powerful DSP based card like Creamware would hammer-cracking-egg scenario. From what you guys say, I reckon a simple card should give me enough to workably integrate some software audio with my existing setup. Maybe if I find myself "migrating" more to the PC platform and playing my synths less :'( then I'll look at getting some more hardware/DSPs in...although having said that maybe I could do with some of that heat over the winter... BS

LOL Where's me piano?! BS

No you're right - I know zero about soundcards. Just that "soundblaster" isn't a name I'd usually associate with audio quality, but maybe that's different now! So how does it stack up against the EMU, M-Audio and Terratec cards at the same price ( with the new drivers )? BS

And does it take out all the noise from the shitty DACs too? BS

More quality help from the SS posse. Thanks again... I really meant "record CuBase's output into Soundforge". But from what you explain below, I think I'm getting the hang of why I might not even need to do this... Aha! I see! It's starting make sense now! So basically as long as I monitor everything post-soundcard, I'll be sync'd? I guess by the same token you're saying that I can get CuBase to generate a "final" stereo audio file, and it records the external sources too - right? So no need to use SF at all at that point. Right again? I'm just too used to thinking old-school - recording my "final" mix to DAT and then editing - where CuBase is only the MIDI sequencer and the only things it ever records is me playing the keyboards. Hmmm...just a thought though...what happens when I want to jam along "live" with my programmed track? Won't there be the 20ms delay? I guess I'd have to change to monitor the external sources pre-soundcard then? yeah! I'll bet! Even although I write software for a living, the last thing I want to be doing with my music time is farting around with drivers and Windows settings. Aaargh! Cheers, BS

Hey John! I was actually serious about no MIDI lag! I've never had any trouble with modern MIDI kit in this area. It's the other way around that I'm getting at ie. the *VST* instruments lagging behind the "real" ones because of soundcard latency - do I need to be concerned here or am I assured to be OK on playback? Also your comment on routing - how do I find out which cards would support the routing I need? Is that not something standard? I don't think I need the kind of flexibility you have with a multi-soundcard setup - although it sounds great - especially what you say about tactile experience! I just need something to get me off the ground and into the noughties - without taking any backward steps... BS

Hey dudes - thanks for all your replies - and gr8 to hear from y'all again. Yeah my old Mix -> DAT -> PC setup was a bit out of date. It was really a "PC as audio Slave" setup that had evolved over a period of about 10 years! But it was effective - essentially, I just ran CuBase's outs to a stereo pair on the desk and treated it like another outboard source - any FX were applied to the dry CuBase signal using the Aux's and outboard. I didn't use much at all in the way of software FX as I found the outboard stuff ( decent Lexicon MPX1 ) outperformed the CuBase software stuff by several orders. DAT was recorded directly from the desk's stereo out. But agreed - DAT goes out of the equation - and into BongStuff's very large defunct-technology-that-cost-a-fortune-at-the-time cardboard box :'( Now BS gets all 21st century on your ass...doing my damndest to explain without a diagram, I'm thinking I can do something like this... Midi Out from PC into "master" synth Midi thru to the rest of the outboard MIDI kit etc... Outboard synths -> desk ( hardware ) Outboard FX -> desk Mix all outboard sources down to stereo, then desk -> Soundcard stereo in Bring up this source as 2 channels on CuBase mixer. Mix in other PC sources e.g. VSTs, Vocals etc. on CuBase mixer. based solution in the first place. I'm really looking for the simplest setup that will work. Budget's not a big issue - I could splash out up to a few hundred quid - but I'm guessing all I'll really get is the ability to bring in my outboard sources as more separate channels, plus a bit more "off-CPU" oomph for VSTs and software FX, and better DACs, right? And if 24/96 is unavoidable - fair enough! I take the point it would be best to keep the signal quality highest as long as possible. I'll be running on a Dell 3.2GHz / 1Gb RAM / 400Gb SATA drive so I'll be able to handle large files, and should be OK with an M-Audio card as it's Intel... Am I getting the right end of the proverbial stick here? BS

SS Dudes... I need a new soundcard. In fact I need a soundcard full stop ( that's PERIOD to our US cousins ). Most of the music I do is, or at least was, produced around a fairly large MIDI rig of synths, samplers, outboard FX and a big(ish) Soundcraft Spirit 24:2 desk...a setup which I like and still want to keep "up" and running. Software wise I sequenced with CuBase ( although I started with Pro24! ) for years but never really used any of its laterly available audio facilities. So my workflow was basically I'd MIDI-sequence in CuBase, then I'd mix the old-fashioned way on the desk, then record the whole rig "live" to DAT. Then transfer the stereo DAT back into the PC for editing with SoundForge... Any "live " instruments / vox I'd either sample and MIDI-trigger or spin in using CuBase audio tracks. I must say most of the music I produce doesn't involve much in the way of acoustic instruments However, now I want to switch my focus to a more software bias to mess about with VSTs and soft synths - and keep the old stuff for playing when I'm too bored/tired/wasted to use a computer. I plan on using CuBase SL3 with SoundForge7 as the "offline" post-pro editing / mastering tool. So tell me, do I need anything more than a half decent stereo-in stereo-out soundcard with decent ASIO drivers so I can run a few VSTs? Something like an EMU0404 or an Audiophile2496? I would basically keep the same workflow I think - finalise a track then record to DAT. Dump back into WAV file digitally... I guess a restriction is that I'll be down to boring old 44.1K / 16bit because of the DAT's ADC for my post-pro but is it really worth going to 96K / 24bit? Could I skip the whole DAT transfer and have SoundForge record the whole lot - outboard synths / FX VSTs and all - onto a nice hi-res WAV internally, without a more complex soundcard? Anyway, lots of questions, any advice? BS

That's an interesting site...but I scoped around a bit more following your leads. Turns out that with the current favourable US/UK exchange rate, it was cheapest to actually get it FedEx'd direct from the Sony US ( 150 USD + 20 shipping = 170, which is 92 UKP ). So one shiny new copy of S/Forge 7.0 is on it's way across the atlantic to BongStuff towers... ...just gotta get my CuBase upgraded now...SL1 to SL3! BS

I guess Sonic Foundry got bought over by Sony, or something like that. Anyone know if there's a European distributor that would supply me with an upgrade? Or do I have to go to the US for it?! Cheers, BS

Yes, I was raised by wild sequencers. BS

This is getting silly... BS

I think Cher should have left the robot voice on for the choruses too! BS

Right, I guess what you're saying is it's about chosen direction. Marc's making music for flim soundtracks - so necessarily his work has to be well produced, as well as interesting and fitting compositionally. Didier is writing songs to be performed by a rock-oriented band, so the emphasis there is more on "traditional" songwriting skills. I don't think the two are that different though. I see performance ( ie. playing an instrument, solo, in a band, orchestra whatever ) as a pure form of production. Taking the example of the pianist who never wants to deviate away from piano sounds - this is because (s)he has the depth of technical understanding of the instrument to allow precise expression of the music they play. In a sense they produce their music through their performance. Most classical symphonic music was never "produced" but played, tweaked, restructured, and played again, over and over until the composer was satisfied that the piece was complete and that the instrumentalists had interpreted the piece as intended - a process as complex as any studio production, and not that far removed. BS

The ADAP - yes I remember that! Did you get it from a TV post production studio or something? Cool! However, I would say that creating a usable piano patch from scratch might be a bit, shall we say, labour intensive? How about a cheap 2nd hand module? The U110 ( mentioned by HH a while ago ) has some pretty useful piano patches. Might not stand up in an isolated performance, but sits well in a mix. Nice variation of bright, smooth, honky-tonk etc...the electric pianos are excellent too. I reckon you could get one for about 100 euros. Good luck, whichever way. BS

yeah - i used to use it - wavelab 2.0. quite nice! tough choice... BS

Hey - just record it, swap the reels on your B77 around, then play! Oh, wait a minute...showing my age again... BS

How about non-rock drummers? Clyde Stubblefield? Everyone knows the Funky Drummer sample!!! BS

Anyone here using it? I've got v4.5h ( showing my age again ). Does pretty much everything I need, although I've still not found a good graphic-dynamic setting for mastering... Anyway, 7.0 is out now. Is it worth the upgrade? Oh yeah, and where do I get it? Sonic Foundry appear to have been bought out by Sony Media. BS

Hey I would never disagree with any of that. My only point was that when a centralised system breaks, everything breaks. At least in a more traditional studio if one of my synths breaks down I can still do music. Anyway, that's all by the by. Carillon really sound like they're either understaffed or a bunch of cowboys. I suspect the former. To me you're entitled to at least a 6 month extension to the warranty, and a replacement CuBase dongle! BS

What a great act...the tom riff was probably from 1986 - INFECTED ( notably released 2 years before AIDS was a world headline ). BS

Geez I'm really sorry to hear about these troubles. But, and hell I hate to be smug, but did you ever have such hassle ( months of downtime ) with a traditional "analogue" studio? Dave, I wish you all the best, but the question has to be asked...!? BS

With my old band ( Perfect World - lead singer now signed to Chrysalis ) we tried recording one of our rehearsals firstly after a couple of "straight" runthrus, and then 2ndly at the end of a bit of a binge. Funnily enough, the 2nd one sucked. But it was much more fun at the time. BS

I thought since we've already had a thread on drugs and creativity, it was only fair to mention the influcence of beer on the recording process. I used to clean my tape heads with it. BS

Can't disagree with either of you... ...but also think this is getting a bit spaced out! Have you thought about deep vein marzipan implants? BS ps. woof!