When To Cut Out Breaths On A Vocal Track

[JonathonHolder]

Hey guys. When do you edit breaths out from a vocal track, and when do you leave them in? Is there some kind of standard practice?

[Nightwolf]

i would say only remove it if it detracts from the umm track. Otherwise you risk the empty spot being noticable

[john]

Hey

Sometimes breathing adds to the emotion of a track, particularly stronger emotions. That said I tend to take out breaths where it is easy to remove them and it doesn't effect the overall feel.

Other than that I try to reduce overly noticeable breaths, usually with gain.

There's no hard and fast rules, but for me the performance wins out every time I have conflicting interests.

Cheers

John

[JonathonHolder]

Thanks for those responses. The engineer/producer I was mixing with was pretty insistent that all the breaths should be cut off this track, but I made him leave most of them on in the end.

If you're interested it's 'We are not alone' on my myspace (link at the bottom). I felt the breaths add to the urgency of the track. This guy was telling me that it's standard practise to cut out breaths on up-beat tracks, but I've noticed breaths on a few commercial songs since then, e.g. that annoying new Katie Perry song.

So that’s decided then, the breaths are staying in.

[FinnArild]

Never or very, very seldom do I edit out breath. I do sometimes cut off a db or two if they're very loud, though.

[JonathonHolder]

I'm not bothered by the breaths in this song. There are a few things about the mix that bother me though, if you'll indulge me for a moment.

First, the drums are way too compressed. I think the drums themselves are all right (though I'd tweak a little bit for clarity), but the cymbals sound really squashed. It sounds like he compressed all of the drums. It would sound better, IMO, if the drums were compressed but the cymbals and hi-hat left alone. If there is a problem with volume with the cymbals, then bring them down. Hopefully, the drums are all on separate channels so that everything can be separated.

Second, that guitar sound is a little weird. Is the effect recorded directly on the track? If not, then reduce it a little bit. If it is then I'd try to temper it a bit with a light delay.

Third, the reverb on the vocals is setting the vocals too far back in the mix. If it's a pop sound you're after, the vocals need to be up front. I'd change the reverb type to a room sound and apply only a little bit (it sounds like a plate type right now).

It would be good, too, if you could add backing vocals to the chorus. I'm thinking two harmony tracks panned at different locations. Those can have more reverb. But the main vocal should sit right in front.

Man, that's some really good insights, that's an unmixed version though. Would be great if you could take another look when I've got a mixed version up, should be by Thursday but I'll let you know.

I'm def going to watch out for those things. I think the compression was from a dodgy master, hopefully can sort a lot out with EQing. Will take a look at the vocals as well.

Cheers

[Prometheus]

The only time I ever cut out the breaths are if other artifacts are involved. High quality condenser mikes with a quiet singer will pick up every single little saliva pop from the singers mouth. I've known them to pick up so loud that it sounds like a glitch from a bad cut and splice edit.

[Prometheus]

By and large I think it's a good track, as you say, it's unmixed.

It sounds to me like it's all midrange. The drums are all snare, there isn't much punch on low end or sizzle on the high end, but that is common to unmixed recordings and can all be fixed in the mix.

The reverb bothered me a litte as well, it was the lead guitar I first noticed was far away sounding. Instead of reverb it might be worth trying to use a touch of chorus to wash the guitar sound with, or is that simply the sound of the room the guitar was recorded in? It sounds to me like there has been a general over use of reverb on the track, or that the track was recorded in a large room with parallel surfaces.

As I said, these criticisms are me deliberately being pernickity I do think by and large it has the makings of a good track. The only thing I would say is that you should maybe put a middle eight in it to take the length up to around the three minute mark. The average length of a pop tune these days is between three and four minutes.

[JonathonHolder]

Just got a proper mix up, and also a mix with some alien sound effects. Seem like an ok mix now? Also, which do you think I should go for, the alien version or plain? I like the sound effects, but it obscures the main riff a little.

I thought about adding a middle 8, but I think it works ok as a short novelty track, the kind of track they ply on the radio when they've got 2 minutes before the news.

Edited January 12, 2009 by JonathonHolder

[Prometheus]

It definitely seems a lot better to me now. The middrange has been dealt with and there's plenty of punch on the bottom end. Those were the main things that were bothering me.

It's got a nice groove to it.

[Boff]

Am I right if I say that you need a quite good microphone to capture breaths? Or do you need a condenser mic? I'm using a Shure SM58, and I don't get that much breathing on my recordings.

[Prometheus]

It depends on a lot of factors. If the singer is loud, then you can get away with standing him or her further away from the mike or turning the gain way down and probably get no terrible artifacts even without a pop shield.

If the singer is quiet and you're recording in an anechoic chamber with a condenser mike and good preamps, you could capture a mouse farting.

If you get a singer like me who's just a shit singer, then you'll have some real fun at the mixing stage. Everytime I record and mix my own songs, it all goes smooth as clockwork until I try to get my vocals done. I always have a hell of a time tracking them, my breathing is so poor I usually end up feeling dizzy, my voice is full of really appalling formants and I always have to EQ the f*ck out of it and there are always saliva pops and breathing artifacts because I have to sing in a quiet whispery voice to mitigate the aforementioned problems.

I've always found the SM58 to be an excellent mike for just about any purpose.

Edited January 20, 2009 by Prometheus

[tgrover]

thing with breathes is they dont seem to bad until you start to add effects to the track and sometimes they just sound awful. A singer with good recording technique should be able to elimate this from the recording.

Some songs they sound good on - where its a more real take - more high quality productions you wont hear them. I generally take them out. I want to mix the singing not the breathes!