What Do You Guys Think About Theory?

[tinam]

i love making music bcos i dont have to think about it...it just happens ...that is so exciting  & catharctic &fulfilling ..can i wear a badge that says all  that ?  a large one obviously

Edited March 28, 2014 by tinam

[TheSluggard]

Why yes, yes you can!

[M57]

Of course you can.. What people don't realize is that listening is a huge part of their "academic" understanding and "practice" is a great way to develop theoretical knowledge.. You ARE thinking! Don't discount the importance of your brain in the process.

[Rudi]

After some years I got to a point where I build chords / harmonic structure out of what the music suggested. I longer cared much about what to call it. In other words the intuitive took over from the theoretical.

 

This is significant, because by ‘not bothering’ to incorporate what I found into my existing understanding of theory, I was effectively abandoning that theoretical structure.

 

The melodic equivalent of this would be to play the notes in your head rather than sticking to a scale/mode.

 

I am not advocating this as an alternative, nor as an ideal. I didn’t even consciously decide to work this way. I did however consciously decide to allow it to continue once it began to happen to me.

 

The upshot of this is that when communicating to other musicians, I have to pause to figure out what to call those chords.

 

Having said that, were I to get into the Wes Montgomery type mind set, I would have no choice but to resurrect the theory pretty damn quick!

 

I wish to put the record straight on one matter though; especially to young musicians starting out.

Just because there are talented unschooled musicians out there, does not mean you should lightly abandon theory as a path choice. Doing your own thing is not an ‘easy option’. Those untutored people worked just as hard to achieve their levels of excellence.

[TapperMike]

I'm going to chime back in on this subject.

 

I know people who have not advanced musically because they are so obsessed with theory they think they can get by just by reading about it.  Then the moment of truth arrives when they have to actually play something and... nothing is there because they failed to develop technique or a sense of personal timing.  These individuals usually will only play when they "think" they are writing or recording.  Because they haven't developed a sense of "self" through their fingers or for that matter even the slightest amount of mastery they hack their way through,,,listen to the playback and blame it on theory.

 

Several years ago I started teaching "Concepts of Popular Music" in a different forum.  I explained how popular music and chord progressions arose and why they were different then classical treatments.  I provided sheet music of songs and demonstrated the why's and where for. Bear in mind that I have been a professional guitar teacher studio and stage performer as well as songwriter. The classicalists at the forum rejected it outright even though the evidence in popular songs was presented and it matched my lesson plan. I even had to go so far as to find videos of more famous musicians explaining the same concept in the same manner and the classicalists still wouldn't back down from their 16th century understanding of music theory.  The novices where quite intrigued with what I had to offer.  Yet very few took that knowledge to the next step of applying that knowledge.  Those that did apply themselves to the approached I'd laid out moved on.  Others even years and years after my initial posting who read and responded to the thread learned nothing.   They learned nothing because they applied nothing and they still come back with the same questions they've had in the past.  It has lead to much disillusionment for me.  Some people use lack of theory as a crutch for lack of musical development simply because they refuse to apply themselves.   And so long as they do they will be forever stopping themselves from fulfilling their musical potential.

 

 

Finding your "voice" doesn't require years and years of knowledge.  It does require that you apply yourself to your instrument on a regular basis (practice) People with very limited musical knowledge yet full of self confidence and a true desire to apply themselves generally have a more rewarding experience writing/performing/improvising then those who don't respect the craft to develop playing abilities.

 

It is near impossible to not be influenced by other musicians on the road to musical self discovery.  My favorite quote from Clapton ever reads something like "I loved SRV"s playing..... But only after he stopped trying to play like Albert King and started playing like Stevie Ray Vaughan"

Clapton himself mimicked much of King's playing style in his early years as well.  It's doubtful either would have reached the heights in popularity they did without  King's playing style as a roadmap.

 

In many ways technique/style supersedes theoretical knowledge.  Theory is not an end to a means and it's certainly not a be all end all. There are several theories (because music is about art and craft more then science)  Not all theories are applicable in all situations.  And mostly important theory or lack thereof is not a valid excuse for developing technique.

[M57]

TapperMike, Can you point us to these forums/lessons?

[TapperMike]

Rhythmic modes - http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=99&t=350171&p=4929994&hilit=Rhythmic+modes#p4929994

 

 

Guide Tones - http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=99&t=323416&p=4587240&hilit=guide+tones#p4587240

 

There is another thread where I list about a good dozen instructional video's which demonstrate guide tones by various well recognized guitarists but that's another story all together.

 

Modes in general - http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=99&t=410147&start=15

 

Charlie Parker's musical legacy  http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=99&t=347317&p=4907737&hilit=parker#p4907737

Parker literally changed the rules of jazz

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_parker#Bebop

 

His approach to theory was widely adapted by Bebop players more so then Miles Davis who is credited more for the bebop movement.  The concepts of parker's theory have spread throughout the musical landscape.  

 

Conosance, Dissonance and Reharmonization - http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=99&t=392408&hilit=dissonance%E2%80%A6&start=45

 

I'm not simply a jazz buff. I studied jazz theory at a jazz school taught by jazz instructors who also made a living playing jazz professionally. Most of my detractors did not go that route they studied classical theory in a classical setting with classical constructs.  They reject out of hand any references that are not within their narrow scope of understanding.  In the early days of kvr there were more of my type around however the classicalists would beat them down with dogma till the point where the other jazz enthusiasts simply left kvr never to return.

[Bridget Murphy]

It's understandable to feel hesitant about discussing music theory, as it can sometimes spark heated debates. However, I think it's a valuable topic to explore, especially since it plays such a crucial role in musicianship.