A Fair Music Industry?

[mrkhaijyo]

Stumbled across this campaign on facebook... They want to recreate the music industry as a fair place for musicians. About bloody time I say! I'm cautiously optimistic, but am worried musicians will continue to get the short end as they always do. Thoughts?

I know my streaming rates aren't paying the bills. 

Edited June 28, 2013 by john
*risky behaviour link removed*

[john]

I had to remove the tracking link as it is a dodgy tracking link site.

 

That aside the destination site, I've seen and heard it all before, and it sure makes a great sounding marketing campaign to help promote a fledgling music website. Songstuff has been working quietly in the background supporting artists for 13 years online, educating and giving artists and writers the knowledge and skills and contacts etc to help musicians remake the music industry.

 

Because a site like that just isn't going to do it. Sorry.

 

No one site is.

 

The music industry is constantly in flux just now. Just how musicians make their income widely varies.

 

What I would be interested in is, just how do you think the music industry is treating musicians and artists unfairly?

 

Streaming payouts? Sorry that's NOT the music industry doing that. Streaming prices arrived at what they are because  profiteering websites (ie napster on downloads and then the biggest streamer... YouTube as it was at the time) refused to pay broadcast fees. Piracy pundits got behind this based on some of the biggest misinformation and lies out there as a way to help justify what they were doing. Musician and songwriter's rights societies tried to take a stand but:

 

YouTube cut off entire countries (for example the UK) from videos and blamed rights societies for being big and bad. Articles all about just how unfair it was that they be asked to pay the amount they were soared to the top of Google search results while an all out campaign against rights societies ensued. Search results pro-musician dropped off the bottom of the results.

 

Did I mention that this was not long after Google bought YouTube?

 

This was not about free music for punters. It was about website profit being put ahead of musicians and songwriters. Google didn't care, they make their money from advertising and selling market intelligence. It was about Google making money being more important than musicians making a living, Same goes for spotify and all the others.

 

The big lie was that musicians and writers etc. were all like the big labels, making money hand over fist while streaming sites were on the side of the listener.

 

All that the free music protest did was kill small genres (anything smaller than pop basically), killed off indie musicians from making a living from their music in any of the traditional ways. What happened was that instead of the money going to those who make and create the music, it went to marketers and profiteers and pirates (thieves) who were more interested in their own poxy undeserved "fame".

 

As a result there has been a huge migration away from full-time in the once music industry. Many less mainstream genres are entirely part-timer/hobbyists now. Many once top end pros are now working in other industries.

 

To change this means changing public perception, about re-educating them where the value lies, and as long as site like Google control media delivery and search engines in such a dominant way that isn't going to happen. Google - Ethics - Crap.

 

A few years ago large news and media organisations weren't allowed in many countries because it allows them to manipulate markets, manipulate news etc. and gain a hugely unfair advantage. Google is that but much, much, much worse.

 

They are just as arrogant and aggressive as Microsoft were once reputed to be. As an aside, Microsoft were slapped on the wrists several times a few years ago for  taking info they shouldn't off customer's computers without permission to use it for their own commercial advantage. They were well known for sharp practice and for unfair business practices. Now of course they are trying to market themselves as having customer security as a core value as they champion browsers that have an opt out for websites gathering usage stats. Of course the same does not apply to the browsers and browser tools they own. Sound familiar? Yep, smoke and mirrors, marketing trash and market manipulation via dodgy business practices. Google is no different. A huge con and you, me and just about everyone else pay the price of their profits.

 

if the piracy jerks really want to change things, really want people to be treated fairly, then they should turn their talents and attentions to Microsoft, Google, Facebook etc. Not that they care what I say, any of them.

 

Okay, okay I'll get off my soapbox.I've made enough enemies! lol

 

Puting all that behind us is now the name of the game. that means really understanding the mindset of your fans and working out just how you can ever be a full-time musician again is the ongoing challenge. Just how can you make money from your music? More on that another time.

[Just1L]

Unless there is some sort of regulation of the internet, things will never change and only get worse. And that is one big hill to climb. I'm not really one to be big on regulations, but when it comes to people ripping other people off and stealing, well, I'm for them in those cases. The movement that is currently happening though is, slowly but surely, internet companies Microsoft, Adobe, etc... are trying to get people comfortable with the idea that they no longer need to physically own anything.

 

This does go far beyond the music industry though. The sad thing is it's not "content" that makes money, it's the people who control the content that make the big money. The providers of content don't. Think of google. What if they had to pay people for what comes up in their searches? Afterall, what good would Google be if there was no content to search for. They would be out of business. Which could be why they are constantly expanding their business model to include social media, music, phones, computers, and basically anything they can get their fingers into. They need a physical product that is actually worth something.

 

But I will say this, regulation will happen eventually. And the people will go f'n crazy! And if I'm wrong, I invite you to come to my funeral to point and laugh at me.

Edited June 28, 2013 by just1l

[john]

lol Too true, no one makes money from their creations apart from Microcrap, Facespook etc.

 

Trouble is soon creatives will be unable to make a living from their products and the tipping point will come when all the watchers realise the only new stuff they ever see is home made cheap filler. No more quality works. No new big budget anythings. Anything approaching that will be cheap formulaic BS. You can already see it in the modern pop industry, Yes there are talented people, but 99% is use the same sound banks with the same loops and the same ideas recycled simply because the company involved control enough media to saturate your brain with enough dross that you think that is all there is.  Did someone just whisper American Idol or XFactor? No? I'm sure I heard something....

[Just1L]

Indeed. I guess on the plus side we'll always have a plethora of cat videos to watch.

[john]

How about a Facebook Campaign to boycott all paid advertising? Google, FB and Micropiss would love it! Social media in action No Sponsored results, nothing.

 

Similarly if you do find you have clicked through on an advertisement DON'T BUY, COMPLAIN. That would do it.

 

More seriously, the governments need to get serious about stopping the data sharing and spilt up these massive companies. They are data monopolies and very dangerous. They've just killed the music industry without blinking. On a global level. Movies, literature and more are next. Or maybe it'll just be a country. Waaaay too much power for a company to have.

[john]

Yeah I hear you. Was more pointless pondering on my part. I'll leave something quite so disruptive to those full of youthful energy. I do my bit with Songstuff and that's plenty.

The point was (segue BTT) to get a fairer music industry that isn't going to happen while these large companies rule the roost, and it sure isn't going to be caused by a new music site that sees a gap in the market by hijacking disenfranchisement of musicians and songwriters.

[Zson]

God I'm glad I found this site.

[LayneGreene]

I think David wins!

[LayneGreene]

I was thinking a bunch of points on some dumb facebook app or something

[john]

wow, you say that as if a "like" really doesn't mean anything!

lmao

we really should invest in thumbs up and thumbs down symbols so we can be on-trend too

Social media does have it's uses for musicians and bands, or it could have. Sadly, like Myspace, over eager bands trashed it completely. They are so keen to tell evereyone and their dog about how brilliant their music is very few ever stop to ask themselves if they really should.

Bands are probably the worst spammers out there. Sad but true. If musicians really want to be viewed with respect then the sooner they learn the difference between spam and welcome promo the better (yes therereally is such a thing). As a social group we have become experts at poisoning the well.

Do bands really think a) others can't see through thin veiled promo b ) that people view such messages as anything other than desperate "hey no-one else will talk about my music" c) people recieve such messages are likely to respond positively?

The truth is ignore buttons were invented to deal with bands.

It is against that backdrop that we as individuals and as a group have to fight to retain any social standing or self respect. The challenge is to do that and still get word out to get more fans. There are ways. Quite a few as it happens. I'll maybe go into them in the promo workgroup sometime for those interested.

When a platform finally cracks socializing in a way that bands can't ruin it for everyone else, that platform is likely to be very, very popular.

When bands do learn how to respect others it generally pays off in spades.

[Just1L]

Hey David, I appreciate your boycott. I've been off Facebook for almost 2 years now... and I still don't have a cell phone! 

[john]

Sounds like an AA meet,  FBBA. Hi, I'm John and I'm a Facebook Boycotter lol

[independentmusicpromotions]

Expecting a fair music industry would be similar to expecting a fair jungle, a fair business world, or anything else. The belief itself holds us back. The best you can do is be honest and research others you may do business with to make sure they're honest as well. Don't support the scammers, and your vote will create change - positive change. You vote with your actions.

[jamallax89]

There are many excellent post, and many important post are available here. thanks

Edited November 6, 2013 by jamallax89

[Kel]

I had to remove the tracking link as it is a dodgy tracking link site.

 

That aside the destination site, I've seen and heard it all before, and it sure makes a great sounding marketing campaign to help promote a fledgling music website. Songstuff has been working quietly in the background supporting artists for 13 years online, educating and giving artists and writers the knowledge and skills and contacts etc to help musicians remake the music industry.

 

Because a site like that just isn't going to do it. Sorry.

 

No one site is.

 

The music industry is constantly in flux just now. Just how musicians make their income widely varies.

 

What I would be interested in is, just how do you think the music industry is treating musicians and artists unfairly?

 

Streaming payouts? Sorry that's NOT the music industry doing that. Streaming prices arrived at what they are because  profiteering websites (ie napster on downloads and then the biggest streamer... YouTube as it was at the time) refused to pay broadcast fees. Piracy pundits got behind this based on some of the biggest misinformation and lies out there as a way to help justify what they were doing. Musician and songwriter's rights societies tried to take a stand but:

 

YouTube cut off entire countries (for example the UK) from videos and blamed rights societies for being big and bad. Articles all about just how unfair it was that they be asked to pay the amount they were soared to the top of Google search results while an all out campaign against rights societies ensued. Search results pro-musician dropped off the bottom of the results.

 

Did I mention that this was not long after Google bought YouTube?

 

This was not about free music for punters. It was about website profit being put ahead of musicians and songwriters. Google didn't care, they make their money from advertising and selling market intelligence. It was about Google making money being more important than musicians making a living, Same goes for spotify and all the others.

 

The big lie was that musicians and writers etc. were all like the big labels, making money hand over fist while streaming sites were on the side of the listener.

 

All that the free music protest did was kill small genres (anything smaller than pop basically), killed off indie musicians from making a living from their music in any of the traditional ways. What happened was that instead of the money going to those who make and create the music, it went to marketers and profiteers and pirates (thieves) who were more interested in their own poxy undeserved "fame".

 

As a result there has been a huge migration away from full-time in the once music industry. Many less mainstream genres are entirely part-timer/hobbyists now. Many once top end pros are now working in other industries.

 

To change this means changing public perception, about re-educating them where the value lies, and as long as site like Google control media delivery and search engines in such a dominant way that isn't going to happen. Google - Ethics - Crap.

 

A few years ago large news and media organisations weren't allowed in many countries because it allows them to manipulate markets, manipulate news etc. and gain a hugely unfair advantage. Google is that but much, much, much worse.

 

They are just as arrogant and aggressive as Microsoft were once reputed to be. As an aside, Microsoft were slapped on the wrists several times a few years ago for  taking info they shouldn't off customer's computers without permission to use it for their own commercial advantage. They were well known for sharp practice and for unfair business practices. Now of course they are trying to market themselves as having customer security as a core value as they champion browsers that have an opt out for websites gathering usage stats. Of course the same does not apply to the browsers and browser tools they own. Sound familiar? Yep, smoke and mirrors, marketing trash and market manipulation via dodgy business practices. Google is no different. A huge con and you, me and just about everyone else pay the price of their profits.

 

if the piracy jerks really want to change things, really want people to be treated fairly, then they should turn their talents and attentions to Microsoft, Google, Facebook etc. Not that they care what I say, any of them.

 

Okay, okay I'll get off my soapbox.I've made enough enemies! lol

 

Puting all that behind us is now the name of the game. that means really understanding the mindset of your fans and working out just how you can ever be a full-time musician again is the ongoing challenge. Just how can you make money from your music? More on that another time.

Gee John,

 

Why so quiet on this subject? I thought you'd be screaming from the clifftops.... 

 

Kel

(tongue planted firmly in cheek!)

[john]

Kel, Kel, Kel,

You know me, I am painfully shy, so I had to hold back

anyway, since when have I ever had an opinion?