(Why) Is Modern Pop Music So Terrible?

[Ray Ayuso]

 

What i find frustrating at times is that im sure there is a lot of great music being made, but those are not the musicians or bands that are getting popular or exposed to the general public, therefore we never know about them. The only new music we have a chance to hear on the mainstream are the hit songs from a few artists that follow a proven trend formula thats working at the moment such as reggaeton or hip hop, for example rock on mainstream has been going downhill.

 

There has to be a better way to expose new good artists on the internet, to insentivise them and to find them. Youtube is like a big blackhole to find new music that might be interesting.

[Sreyashi Mukherjee]

This is an interesting link… and I do tend to fully agree with the points that he has made to justify why the current pop music isn't “classy”. Of course, he doesn't leave room for debate as to whether pop music is ever considered “classy” compared to the preceding era    If we’re complaining so much about the current internet-driven music exposure in certain specific genres, wonder what will happen to the music of the next generations!  

 

Oh.. and I was searching Wikipedia for the definition of pop music.. and this is what I got - “Pop music continuously evolves along with the term's definition. According to The New Grove Dictionary Of Music and Musicians, popular music is defined as "the music since industrialization in the 1800s that is most in line with the tastes and interests of the urban middle class.”” Undoubtedly, the music makeover has been enormous over the ages. And perhaps the scientific algorithms will get changed and upgraded, too 

 

I guess it all comes down to our personal taste. Either we like something or we don’t. And we will always have a good reason to support what we like or don’t like  

 

Ah.. and yes, Max Martin – I do remember his trademark sound way back from the Britney Spears-Backstreet Boys-N’ Sync-etc. days. His name appeared on almost every third song in their albums (yeah, because the internet boom wasn’t there, and I had more time to read all the details in the CD/cassette booklets). To have lasted over 2 decades, I can see that he had to evolve his music, too. Definitely a lot of science and strategy involved..

 

 

[Just1L]

1 hour ago, fasstrack said:

You sound like me.

 

 Trust me, NO ONE howled louder or longer than me about digitalsville. But it does no good. Fixing it? Smell the coffee, dude: the horse left the barn YEARS ago.

 

There have been stories and rumors ad nauseum: this or that congressman is gonna levy this or that tax; they're gonna start charging for so much bandwidth use, no more tax-free purchases---yada yada yada. ALL bulls$$t----it's the Wild West, and always will be---UNLESS people with such authority changes things. Fat chance.

 

So it's on US to use the good parts (read: making contacts, 'talking' to new friends who may live abroad, getting folks to gigs or to buy our CDs, having a bully pulpit for our own views). I use the web regularly for research---I just vet the pages first, and stay away from dubious ones like wikipedia. 

 

Forewarned is forearmed. And let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Vet, vet, vet---then use, use, use...

 

Timing is everything. I've been wise of the problems for years and years but know/knew it would be a useless effort. The battle hasn't even begun yet, but I do believe it will happen and I do agree with you that it is on US. 

[Just1L]

On February 15, 2018 at 5:58 PM, fasstrack said:

I dunno why, but your answer reminds me of something totally off-topic (maybe because 'throw up' could indeed end up 'on us').

 

My late friend Bobby had occasion to meet the great arranger Manny Albam. (Manny wrote for damn near EVERYONE in the biz, from the '30s on. I studied w/him in '88, when I wanted to learn about big-band arranging).

 

'Wow! Manny Albam!! I grew up on your charts!'

 

'You mean you THREW up on my charts'.

 

I don't think of it as a battle. I'm hanging up my pugilism gloves---just wanna live my life out in peace. I'm not the damn Cape Crusader. I play guitar and write songs. I like to get paid for it. I do get paid to play---not as much or often as I like, but I do. As far as composing, I myself would think it a better use of time to get into film and commercial composing. (There's also a children's song market, and that's intriguing b/c I write those, too. 

 

So sorry to hammer the point again and again, but if it ain't payin' the bills.... I need to be compensated. Let others try to get famous or lust after 'exposure'. I could care less. If youtube, Spotify---WHOEVER---won't pay me fairly for my services the hell with 'em. 

 

My big beef: They pay doctors, they pay lawyers---don't they, and never questioning it, even when the fees are ridiculous? Well, let 'em pay US! Musicians are the only ones, or among the only ones, continually getting screwed. And part of it is that we feed into it by doing freebie after freebie. My minimum charge for a gig is $100---unless there's a VERY good reason to get less. And I don't put my music on the web for peanuts or nada---again, unless there's a good reason. Posting here is one thing. I don't mind that, b/c other writers might like my stuff--and you never know who lurks on these sites and who could use stuff like yours, and pay for it. 

 

So, again: HOW on the Internet DO we get paid?  

 

I definitely hear 

[Richard Tracey]

18 hours ago, Just1L said:

 

I definitely hear what your saying. But concerning the problems of the internet that need to be fixed, paying musicians is towards the bottom of the list of my concerns. There are much bigger fish to fry. Getting those in my belly would fix the content stealing, devaluing of music as well as all content. I don't have my cape yet but I have looked around on Amazon a little. Probably going to darn my own though. One of the things on my list is Facebook. After admitting they worked tirelessly to get people addicted to their product, it's only a matter of time until people start suing them for their addiction. People will more easily come to the conclusion that Facebook isn't necessary when there is a payout involved. I have a laundry list of disruption to fix things. Some will hate me, some won't. Either way, I'm on a mission. I'd love to be able to say I just want to live my life out in peace but I've got way too much living to do and quite frankly, I'm sick of the ignorance that's going around. I may never live to see the internet I envision, but If I can do my part to set it straight and in the end see some improvements heading in the right direction, I'll die happier for it.

 

I think you might get your wish with Facebook. They are in decline (not too fast though, but it’s happening). The changes they have implemented have annoyed enough people that they are speaking out and Zuckerburg has been getting asked a lot of tough questions recently.

 

For me, they think they are above the law. No-one is above the law. If you get asked to provide information by a law authority you should hand that over if there is a crime involved. They refuse to do this in a lot of cases citing data protection. This is not some private organisation’s emails, this is a social media product where we as consumers post about stuff. It is public domain (yes, I know you can changed to private), but once you post it is technically in the public domain, someone can get to it if they really want. Facebook try and own everything you post. Why, why should they own a picture of one of my daughters I have posted. They pulled everyone in and then changed the rules once they realised 90% of people couldn’t be bothered leaving as they like talking to their friends.

 

I have Facebook, don’t use it a lot and certainly try and limit what I post. I use Twitter more nowadays, it suits my goals when it comes to doing music and getting it out there. I would have to pay Facebook for the privilege - twitter nope.

[Richard Tracey]

13 minutes ago, fasstrack said:

Well, we disagree AGAIN!

 

I use FB. I find it an ideal bully pulpit---though b/c they point me toward people w/similar backgrounds there's a lot of 'preaching to the converted' going on. One thing about this place: I actually LIKE it when no one has a clue who or what I'm talking about and (especially) vice versa. It means learning is possible.

 

But to call FB users 'consumers', Richard? Hear me out here, bro: Everyone that uses it does so largely b/c it's FREE---like every other damn thing on the websky (another wonderful tie-in to why and how me musos are eternally ripped off). Consumers are in one respect merely people who consume---use. But in capitalism, the system we ALL live under, there's the buying aspect. That's what makes the world go round, money.

 

So, while you're right in one respect, I respectfully and in an un-schoolmarmlike way, ask you to choose at least that word more carefully, if only b/c we are people who work with and prize words. 

 

I don't know anything about this 'above the law' stuff---except that the ENTIRE web is the damn Wild West. NOBODY'S being vetted, people write any BS, and no lawmaker seems to have the balls to do ANYTHING about this.

 

Caveat Emptor is all that comes to mind. And live a real life in real time 90% of the time. I'm trying to pare down my own web world, keeping it mostly for business, b/c I so much more enjoy REAL interaction: live music, seeing friends, kibitzing, debating, flirting, flirting (did I mention flirting?). It's an artificial world, and ought to be treated as such. It's best used as a tool, and in the hopes that digital interaction can lead to the main event...

 

Well you will be glad to know that anyone organisation on earth sees the public as 'consumers', they need to, that is how they make their money. God, the Police even now refer to everyone they deal with as customers and that includes the bad people as well. It is the way of the world now, Society has changed and not for the better.

 

Facebook gave us something for free and they used advertising to make money. They now want people who have an interest in promoting something needing to pay to get views. That is why a lot of small businesses are pleading with people to like and share, as not everyone gets to see their posts. They get so many freebies and then they need to pay to be seen by a lot more.

 

FB is too big now. But, it is all going to come down soon. The public in particular, while they still use it, don't like it very much and if something better, or similar comes along, you could see a lot of people leaving.

 

Welcome to the new land - it is both great and shit at the same time.

 

 

[Richard Tracey]

2 minutes ago, fasstrack said:

Selectivity at it's finest (;

 

Gotta love capitalism (actually, I'm a huge fan of the 'small c' variety--like US)... 

 

No-one ever said it was going to be easy.......

[Richard Tracey]

3 hours ago, fasstrack said:

And, reflecting on your comments, Richard, you're not saying people are ENTITLED to get all this shit free, are you? That's a pet peeve, and it's endemic to people younger than both of us. And I'm trying to steer the discussion back to (OK, not the OP) the various ways we don't get paid for our goddamn bloodwork. If we wanna discuss the web and our discontents, the arrogance (not to mention loss of our income) behind click-and-steal is MY topic. How do we fix THIS? CAN we fix it?

 

At the risk of coming off like I think I'm some chaste knight rather than the preternaturally flawed knucklehead I am, I say (not without pride) that I at least TRY to do the right thing: buying CDs. In my mind, though I'm sure I'm wrong, at least a LITTLE of the $ goes to the performers/composers---anyway, it just FEELS like the right thing to do, especially since I bitch endlessly about web theft.

 

It's just the Golden Rule---the only thing besides music and friendship that cuts any ice with me: I wanna get paid, so I pay. Simple arithmetic---and manners.

 

Also, if it's free and we take it for free---remember that old saw 'You get what you pay for'...

 

No, I don’t think anyone should get anything for free, unless the other person is giving it away. The big record companies already fleece the musicians and songwriters without people stealing music. I still support as much as I can - buying CD’s etc and on BandCamp.

 

FB already make more than enough money from normal advertising, but to want to take more from the people that helped make it so huge, is just wrong. This is the kind of act that can lead to a rebellion and they might find one.

[wecouldbeheroes]

On 17.2.2018 at 8:22 PM, Richard Tracey said:

 

No, I don’t think anyone should get anything for free, unless the other person is giving it away. The big record companies already fleece the musicians and songwriters without people stealing music. I still support as much as I can - buying CD’s etc and on BandCamp.

 

FB already make more than enough money from normal advertising, but to want to take more from the people that helped make it so huge, is just wrong. This is the kind of act that can lead to a rebellion and they might find one.

 

I totally agree. I'm also not a fan of Spotify for that reason because it rips off musicians so badly...

[Rudi]

Now we are accustomed to the term 'light pollution'.

http://www.gov.uk/guidance/light-pollution

 

There is also 'noise pollution'  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noise_pollution

 

I propose that music's unrestricted exposure in public areas be recognised as a class category of environmental noise. I used to be able to wander around and enjoy the music inside my head. That is much rarer now, because I cant focus on it with the indiscriminate use of music in public places. Its also nice just to enjoy the quiet sometimes.

 

There may even be a case to answer that the pop music under discussion is injurious to the creative process of musicians.

 

[Rudi]

17 hours ago, fasstrack said:

Nah. Whoever the money-makers are would sue---saying the lawmakers are 'interfering with commerce', or some such. Tie it up in court for years with shark lawyers and motions.

 

Noise pollution is here to stay. If anything it'll only get worse. Try any library these days for quiet---a la the 'good old days'---and see what happens when you have the temerity to complain about some genius screaming on a cell phone 2 feet from you, of course, like you don't exist and it's his birth or constitutional right.

 

I doubt either of us will see it going back to what we treasured, and figured would last as long as we did.

 

The path of least resistance? You don't have to like, you DO have to accept and adjust. Or become a hermit...

 

 Well although the sentiment is real, I was not being entirely serious.

 

Lawsuits? Seems unlikely here; not yet anyway, but we are never more than a score years behind USA social culture. I still haven't forgiven the US for popcorn in cinemas & halloween.

 

Most likely it would need the determination that was demonstrated when the anti-smoking campaign was in full frenzy.

[The S]

19 hours ago, Rob Ash said:

 

It takes a healthy dose of self confidence and hubris to post a specific opinion like this...

 

Well, right back at ya...friend.

 

But you're missing the whole point Rob. Completely.

 

And I'm not new here, and I'm an old geezer like yourself, give or take a few years I guess.

 

Sure I was talking about music, genres specifically and probably wasn't all that clear in what I was trying to say. That is one side of it though, to really be in the kind of music you listen to, to really get it. I still don't think it's enough to just listen to a few songs and then declare you know that genre. You say you and a lot of others on this site can, well good for you but that's where the hubris part of your post also got really strong, and frankly, I'm not sure they want you to speak for them. But what do I know? I'll leave it at that for the moment.

 

The other side is age. Where you're at in life. At a certain time.

 

I'm saying you and I belong to another generation, it doesn't matter if we sit down and try to get the pop music of today, not the same thing as being there, as a kid, a teenager, and experience it like we did with our music. We will always be affected by the times and youth that happened while we were exploring and finding new music and artists back in the day. As will the kids of today. And future generations and so forth.

 

You think The Beatles were respectfully looked upon by the older generation when they first appeared? Elvis? Kiss? Madonna? Soundgarden? Etc etc... The youth of the times though, they immediately loved and embraced it.

 

My oldest daughter, she's 12, loves music and finds new artist all the time. Do you think I've heard any of them? Do you think it's my cup of tea? I always subconsciously compare it to, yes you're right, the music I grew up with. The music and styles that are ingrained in my bones since childhood. The music I know and love. Can't help myself.

 

No matter what you and I, older generations, think or believe, if you grow up with Justin Bieber, Adele, Ed Sheerhan, Avicii to name a few, this will affect how you perceive them for the rest of your life because they were there when life was turbulent, as youth is. You talk about -75 to -90 as it were something special, maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. I personally think it was more so because you were between 13-28, especially the teenage years, which is always a wonderfully turbulent and chaotic time in any persons life, a special time if you'd like. Ask anyone and depending on their age they will say oh no, the 60's is when stuff started happening. NO, the 50's was the musical revolution of our times, or...the 90's, or the 30's etc etc...or even 2018.

 

And I'm sorry to point this out to you Rob, but every generation always believe they were/are special, that it was special times when they grew up. This is not new. It's human nature. 

 

You're echoing what older generations have said long before you. They too, wholeheartedly believed they were right. Think about that for a second. Human nature.

 

So me, sure, as a product of my era, I, partly in a way, also echo the sentiment that modern pop music is garbage, but not really because the music is, which is hard and terrifying for a man of my age to admit,  but I'm guessing more so because it's not part of my own personal history, I've got no memories attached to it, no bigger than life experiences connected to it, and therefore it doesn't connect on a deeper level, it is not familiar to me, or my system. I believe that plays a huge part in why every generation always believe the music they grew up with is the best.

 

And history has in fact proven over and over again, that music perceived as garbage by an older generation, have come to be loved by younger generations and the generations that follow. How is that even possible? 😉

 

To really know I guess, if modern pop is garbage, you need to be a youngster in the middle of growing up, now and also in the times you compare them with, which is only happening if you can lay your hands on some plutonium, a modded DeLorean and hope the lightning will strike in just about the right time.

 

Let face it Rob, we're now officially old as...

 

Cheers!

 

😀😀😀

 

 

[starise]

I wouldn't know. I don't listen to top 40 any more. I don't know. I don't care. I'm ok with that. I sometimes accidentally hear a top 40 tune on someone else's radio or I watch Star Search and hear some amazing talent. I don't diss any generation for talent. They have talent but they might use it differently. To me it isn't "them and us". We are all in it together old young and in between.

 

I have used vst instruments and loops but mostly play it real. I can go either way. For me, it's whatever works. I have all the loops, instruments, plugins and or sound libraries a man could ever want. I'm not bragging just saying I see nothing wrong with having all the tools. One of my pastimes is an interest in software and all things recording, so I doubt I'll ever not use it.

 

Music isn't like Nike to me. It's something at a deeper level that speaks to me. Sure people categorize, generalize and go with what someone else said is hot right at this moment in time, which by the way is a drop in the ocean. I don't give a rats butt what is or isn't hot.

My ego isn't affected by how the wind blows with regard to my music. If you like what I do GREAT! I can't say I don't appreciate appreciation. If you don't care for it this doesn't affect me. I can appreciate that you might not appreciate it.

 

My mentality about the so called new music or pop top 40 or whatever it is is this: I see it the same as above. If someone else likes it GREAT!  

I KNOW this comment will sound condescending to some people.... I think we all move along and mature or grow with time. I can listen to music I liked in the 80's and realize I'm way past that now. As a musician I seek more complexity and depth in much of it. There was a time in my life I related to that music. In the same way the "kids" coming up now will be where I was then. Some things need to be aged to be appreciated and I think this applies to taste in music which is all over the place. Some people will stay musically stagnant because they like where they are. They like a four piece rock or pop band. They don't want to know about anything else. That's not me but that's ok. We can choose our growth to some extent. 

 

If you're a young person and REALLY want to go deeper study modes, scales,chord structures, harmonics and the like. You will begin to hear things that you once blew off and will now appreciate more.

 

This isn't all just about musical growth though. It includes emotional and inner personal development. Teens like music written for them. Why should this be a surprise?Older people are well past that stage in life. I don't want coolness. I don't need coolness. I know what I am. I do ok at what I do.  I really don't care about 99% of the things many other people care about.. I still make music. I'm happy at it. It is freeing to not care. Work hard, yes, play hard yes. Try to excel yes.

 

If you don't like pop music on the radio listen to something else you like. It might mean that you as a musician are beginning to mature in your interests. There is sooooo much more to all of it. Why not open another door and see what's behind it?