The Spine: You're Using It Wrong (Posture For Musicians)

[TransformsIntoAGuitar]

This is part 1 in my short series of light-hearted videos about our spines and how to best use them so we can stay active and keep playing well into our old age. It uses some of the information gathered during my PhD research, but don't worry - it's easy to follow.

 

 

[Rudi]

Good.

Informative and useful. I've been pretty fortunate with my back regards playing. 

When seated and playing Spanish I use a fairly high footstool. I sometimes use it standing playing electric too. I think my posture's not too bad (fingers crossed).

[TransformsIntoAGuitar]

17 hours ago, Rudi said:

Good.

Informative and useful. I've been pretty fortunate with my back regards playing. 

When seated and playing Spanish I use a fairly high footstool. I sometimes use it standing playing electric too. I think my posture's not too bad (fingers crossed).

I'm sorry to inform you that footstool and great posture are mutually exclusive. This video mentions that symmetrical posture is best. If you're using a footstool you're tilting your pelvis and kinking your spine, as well as increasing the tension required for the position. The different leg positions means your myofascial continuities on the left are under different tension than the right, meaning long term adaptions will happen lop-sidedly. This will be looked at more in the next two parts of the series.

[Rudi]

So the only alternative is to use a support between knee and guitar. Because without footstool, hunching is the only way to reach.

[TransformsIntoAGuitar]

15 hours ago, Rudi said:

So the only alternative is to use a support between knee and guitar. Because without footstool, hunching is the only way to reach.

Why do you think hunching is necessary? I've played unhunched with a support for years and never had trouble reaching any notes. Maybe you need to move the support (don't use a cushion, there's no adjustability option and they're not stable) along the body towards the bridge to raise the guitar and incline the neck further. If you're very tall or have a very long back you might need a support that gives more height than a little A Frame.

I've been playing standing up with a strap for some time now and wish I'd done it years ago.

[Capo3tanya]

Ok, I'm just going to ask. Do you have any tips for large breasted women? I can hear the sniggers I don't care it's a legitimate question. They present challenges to both seated and standing playing for me. I looked it up online but I can't get different guitar, I have a decent strap, and I am an experienced player. The darn thing just won't stay in position it's very frustrating. Do you have any secret tips for us? 

[DaveKell]

34 minutes ago, Capo3tanya said:

Ok, I'm just going to ask. Do you have any tips for large breasted women? I can hear the sniggers I don't care it's a legitimate question. They present challenges to both seated and standing playing for me. I looked it up online but I can't get different guitar, I have a decent strap, and I am an experienced player. The darn thing just won't stay in position it's very frustrating. Do you have any secret tips for us? 

A pic would help with answering this question. Haha. My spine will soon be perfectly straight. December 17th I'm having rods put in my entire lumbar spine. The result of being rear ended by a pickup going 60 mph while I was stopped in construction traffic on a highway. An eventual 4 vehicles ended up totaled. Fortunately a highway patrol officer witnessed the accident and ticketed the pickup driver. In addition to mine and my wife's injuries, a one of a kind in the world guitar I inherited last year from a very wealthy friend who passed away was crushed. He commissioned its build in 1982 from Kazuo Yairi and kept it in pristine condition. It had an aged voice that was for the gods. I'm headed for a guaranteed very big settlement from the idiots insurance company in about 4 or 5 months. I'm going to pay the most famous guitar restoration expert in the country a small fortune to restore the Yairi. It deserves to be a survivor, if for no other reason than in memory of my friend.

[Capo3tanya]

Hi @DaveKell, wow! That sounds like a Hattori Honzo sword from Kill Bill or something, wow! Hope your surgery goes well 😃 Yeah hardi har har knew that was coming lol. It's a serious question though. Very irritating. 

[TransformsIntoAGuitar]

12 hours ago, Capo3tanya said:

Ok, I'm just going to ask. Do you have any tips for large breasted women? I can hear the sniggers I don't care it's a legitimate question. They present challenges to both seated and standing playing for me. I looked it up online but I can't get different guitar, I have a decent strap, and I am an experienced player. The darn thing just won't stay in position it's very frustrating. Do you have any secret tips for us? 

A large chest (or belly, which is also a common problem) usually makes it awkward to reach the strings well. I don't see why large breasts would cause guitar instability, unless your arm movements make them move and they push the guitar. If that's the case, wear a sports bra.

Guitar instability is usually caused by lack of friction from the strap material and the instrument not being well balanced (a problem with almost all guitars: they just aren't well designed.) Your options here are:

1) use sandpaper to rough up the surface of the strap where it goes over your shoulder and put strips of silicon along to improve grip (this sort of thing, available from DIY or plumber's shops: https://www.zoro.co.uk/shop/adhesives-and-sealants/silicone-and-caulk-sealants/100hma-black-bond-flex-silicone-sealant-290ml/p/ZT1014642X?utm_campaign=pla-Adhesives+%26+Sealants+-+&utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping-pla&utm_keyword=ZT1014642X&istCompanyId=6aa6787b-063e-4414-802d-129f235df603&istItemId=wtqirlaaqp&istBid=tztx&gclid=Cj0KCQjwjbveBRDVARIsAKxH7vkQWJi-Hog9gEM8d3tfkGMI2JJkcvM35Yf1K3-QWvQCmuuPfu11agEaAvnVEALw_wcB) This will help, but the better options is:

2) Use locking strap buttons and attach one of them to the top edge of the neck around the 7th fret (as can be seen in my interview with Gerald Garcia. It should start playing at the point where the relevant picture shows up)

 

This puts the support point further from the guitar's centre of gravity. Let me know what you think and feel free to ask for clarificiation.

 

[TransformsIntoAGuitar]

11 hours ago, DaveKell said:

A pic would help with answering this question. Haha. My spine will soon be perfectly straight. December 17th I'm having rods put in my entire lumbar spine. The result of being rear ended by a pickup going 60 mph while I was stopped in construction traffic on a highway. An eventual 4 vehicles ended up totaled. Fortunately a highway patrol officer witnessed the accident and ticketed the pickup driver. In addition to mine and my wife's injuries, a one of a kind in the world guitar I inherited last year from a very wealthy friend who passed away was crushed. He commissioned its build in 1982 from Kazuo Yairi and kept it in pristine condition. It had an aged voice that was for the gods. I'm headed for a guaranteed very big settlement from the idiots insurance company in about 4 or 5 months. I'm going to pay the most famous guitar restoration expert in the country a small fortune to restore the Yairi. It deserves to be a survivor, if for no other reason than in memory of my friend.

Oh man, that's terrible! All that pain and a ruined guitar. I hope the restoration works.

 

A problem with receiving large sums of money is that people start asking for handouts, like this: Do you fancy putting a few hundred dollars my way to help fund a prototype new guitar design (the world's first truly ergonomic classical guitar) being made as part of my PhD? Feel free to say no, I just thought I'd ask.

[DaveKell]

1 hour ago, TransformsIntoAGuitar said:

Oh man, that's terrible! All that pain and a ruined guitar. I hope the restoration works.

 

A problem with receiving large sums of money is that people start asking for handouts, like this: Do you fancy putting a few hundred dollars my way to help fund a prototype new guitar design (the world's first truly ergonomic classical guitar) being made as part of my PhD? Feel free to say no, I just thought I'd ask.

I’m unsure whether you’re serious? I can’t conceive of an ergonomic classical. I don’t like playing the wobbly strings. Send some particulars. 

[Capo3tanya]

5 hours ago, TransformsIntoAGuitar said:

5 hours ago, TransformsIntoAGuitar said:

A large chest (or belly, which is also a common problem) usually makes it awkward to reach the strings well. I don't see why large breasts would cause guitar instability, unless your arm movements make them move and they push the guitar. If that's the case, wear a sports bra.

Guitar instability is usually caused by lack of friction from the strap material and the instrument not being well balanced (a problem with almost all guitars: they just aren't well designed.) Your options here are:

1) use sandpaper to rough up the surface of the strap where it goes over your shoulder and put strips of silicon along to improve grip (this sort of thing, available from DIY or plumber's shops: https://www.zoro.co.uk/shop/adhesives-and-sealants/silicone-and-caulk-sealants/100hma-black-bond-flex-silicone-sealant-290ml/p/ZT1014642X?utm_campaign=pla-Adhesives+%26+Sealants+-+&utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping-pla&utm_keyword=ZT1014642X&istCompanyId=6aa6787b-063e-4414-802d-129f235df603&istItemId=wtqirlaaqp&istBid=tztx&gclid=Cj0KCQjwjbveBRDVARIsAKxH7vkQWJi-Hog9gEM8d3tfkGMI2JJkcvM35Yf1K3-QWvQCmuuPfu11agEaAvnVEALw_wcB) This will help, but the better options is:

2) Use locking strap buttons and attach one of them to the top edge of the neck around the 7th fret (as can be seen in my interview with Gerald Garcia. It should start playing at the point where the relevant picture shows up)

 

This puts the support point further from the guitar's centre of gravity. Let me know what you think and feel free to ask for clarificiation.

 

 

Thank you so much!  Yes it does seem to be more of an issue when I'm playing a song with a lot of movement.  Which maybe is why I prefer fingerpicking. I will try your suggestion on the strap, but doesn't silicone make things slippery? Man it'd be great if this works thanks! Also the strap button at 7th fret, check.  Thanks doc!  Hehe 

 

[lemonstar]

I don't know why you used a video to present this information - it was as animated as the now much maligned powerpoint slideshow - there was no actual footage of people demonstrating good or poor posture and no one to point out the fine detail of the biomechanics - I would rather have read the info quietly to myself in a PDF tbh. Also you didn't structure the information so that it was revealed in decreasing levels of abstraction - starting off with a high level over view and gradually introducing more detail - there were no summaries or recaps as you went along - it was all too much low (or similar level) of detail from start to finish - I didn't find it an easy listen. It took me a while to realise that you seemed to be considering only the type of guitarists that were seated - I never sit down to play - I am always standing up with an acoustic guitar on a strap (sometimes an electric) possibly because it is the best position when singing - you can get the air deep into your lungs far better when standing than sitting but you didn't make it clear at the outset who your target audience was.

 

[Rudi]

On 10/22/2018 at 9:44 AM, TransformsIntoAGuitar said:

Why do you think hunching is necessary? I've played unhunched with a support for years and never had trouble reaching any notes. Maybe you need to move the support (don't use a cushion, there's no adjustability option and they're not stable) along the body towards the bridge to raise the guitar and incline the neck further. If you're very tall or have a very long back you might need a support that gives more height than a little A Frame.

I've been playing standing up with a strap for some time now and wish I'd done it years ago.

 

I dont know what you mean by 'the support'.

I play acoustic seated. I play electric standing (with strap).

[Rudi]

BTW I get no sound from your interview vid.

[john]

Good info, though some demonstrations would be very useful. It would help make it more engaging too. A good start. I did love the liquid center lol made me laugh. It injects a welcome light hearted sense of humour in what is a dry topic.

[TransformsIntoAGuitar]

On 10/23/2018 at 7:07 PM, Rudi said:

 

I dont know what you mean by 'the support'.

I play acoustic seated. I play electric standing (with strap).

You're the one who first used the term 'support', so how can you not know what I mean?! 🙂 I mean A Frames, thigh support, ergonomic guitar support, whatever device raises the guitar from the legs so the feet can stay on the floor. Hunching isn't necessary if they're set up properly.

As for not getting any sound in the interview videos I don't know what to say. No-one else has reported issues with them. Did you accidentally press the 'm' key? It mutes YouTube.

[TransformsIntoAGuitar]

16 hours ago, john said:

Good info, though some demonstrations would be very useful. It would help make it more engaging too. A good start. I did love the liquid center lol made me laugh. It injects a welcome light hearted sense of humour in what is a dry topic.

There are more videos to come. They will clarify. Good heavens, man, I can't put everything in one video! 😄

[TransformsIntoAGuitar]

On 10/23/2018 at 3:57 PM, lemonstar said:

I don't know why you used a video to present this information - it was as animated as the now much maligned powerpoint slideshow - there was no actual footage of people demonstrating good or poor posture and no one to point out the fine detail of the biomechanics - I would rather have read the info quietly to myself in a PDF tbh. Also you didn't structure the information so that it was revealed in decreasing levels of abstraction - starting off with a high level over view and gradually introducing more detail - there were no summaries or recaps as you went along - it was all too much low (or similar level) of detail from start to finish - I didn't find it an easy listen. It took me a while to realise that you seemed to be considering only the type of guitarists that were seated - I never sit down to play - I am always standing up with an acoustic guitar on a strap (sometimes an electric) possibly because it is the best position when singing - you can get the air deep into your lungs far better when standing than sitting but you didn't make it clear at the outset who your target audience was.

 

You're entitled to your opinions, and I appreciate the feedback. I tried rewatching this video with an open mind while thinking of your criticism.

Why did I video this? Because it's easier to watch and listen than read a potentially boring paper. Because I write a lot for my PhD and wanted to share my research in a different format. This is a lecture, not a movie, so I feel the presentation is fine and the format allowed me to liven things up in a way that can't be done on paper.

The structure makes sense to me, whereas circling around and including more detail did not seem the right approach as this is a basic overview of several concepts that will be examined in the upcoming videos. This merely serves as an introduction. It's not intended to be in depth because that would lose most people. Anyone wanting more detail can hunt down the sources that pop up on the screen.

I'm not only considering guitarists of one style or posture. In later videos I will look at various ways of standing and sitting to play.

[Rudi]

9 hours ago, TransformsIntoAGuitar said:

You're the one who first used the term 'support', so how can you not know what I mean?! 🙂 I mean A Frames, thigh support, ergonomic guitar support, whatever device raises the guitar from the legs so the feet can stay on the floor. Hunching isn't necessary if they're set up properly.

As for not getting any sound in the interview videos I don't know what to say. No-one else has reported issues with them. Did you accidentally press the 'm' key? It mutes YouTube.

 

Well I told you what I specifically meant in terms of support. You have only just told me what you mean now. I have never heard of thigh supports that were not improvised. That's why I mentioned a cushion; and of course there are all sorts of cushions. One or two sorts would likely work fine.

 

I am aware of back problems associated with guitar playing. I have been fortunate, and had no issues arising from position & posture. A foot stool allows me adopt a usable playing position easily.