Frustrations..

[M57]

Sorry to be a noodge here - I'm a reasonably long-time member - and I seem to remember, only 4 or 5 years ago that when you went to the "Song Critique"  forums, ~90% of the songs were actually 'songs.' You know - with lyrics ..and the lyrics were posted.  The last few times I've come to this site, I've made a point of checking the first 10 or 15 posts.  It seems around half are instrumental, and the majority that actually are "songs," don't have lyrics posted. In many cases, I have to read the first few posts just to see if it's an actual song. When it is, I often end up writing a request for the lyric to be posted, but a majority of the time the OP doesn't bother after the request has been made.  I don't mind listening to a 1 minute instrumental intro if I know there's a song coming.  I know the debate has been had and a decision has been made to classify instrumentals as songs, but with posters not posting their lyrics I've been ending up wasting too much of my time. 

 

Full disclosure: I'm an old codger whose idea of what constitutes a song is old-school, so my value to the community (whatever that means) diminishes over time. Bottom line: I'm coming to this site and participating less and less - and not feeling like I'm a part of the community any more.  Maybe that's a good/natural thing.  The site has to stay with the times and woo the younger members.

[Peggy]

Hi M57,

 

We have been reorganizing the boards and all is not complete.  As to do with the Song Critique board, we have been moving the WIP songs to the Draft Song Critique board and implementing tagging to identify some of the items you mentioned ie. Instumental, lyrics, genre, 1 minute songs, mix, arrangement, etc.  Tags will reflect what the piece of work is and also what part of the song the member wants to be critiqued, or if they are wanting overall impressions.  This will make it easier to id for both the critiquer and the member that started the topic. We will also encourage members to identify when their song is complete and we will have other boards where the songs can be reviewed, showcased and highlighted as featured or finished works. 

 

Yes, i find myself also asking for the lyric and hope we can encourage members to provide the lyric. This is especially important if the lyric and vocal tracks are part of what they would like to be considered in the critique.

 

We are putting together FAQ's and videos that will help the new members adapt quickly to the site and also provide the established member a reference. 

 

It really is exciting thinking about all the things we have planned and are currently working on implementing.  

 

Also, we are open to suggestions because the bottom line is, we want the function and navigation of the boards to better reflect the interests of the members and the music industry. 

 

Thanks! I appreciate this topic. I think you clearly stated some of the frustrations we are working at resolving.

 

Peggy

 

Here's the link to WIP critique boards. That is where the new draft song critique board is.

 

https://forums.songstuff.com/forum/299-critique-wip/

[ImKeN]

@M57 - It seems like a pretty good filtering system though, you could just respond to the ones that do have music+lyrics and hope that the rest start to get the hint 

 

Ken

 

 

[M57]

25 minutes ago, ImKeN said:

@M57 - It seems like a pretty good filtering system though, you could just respond to the ones that do have music+lyrics and hope that the rest start to get the hint 

 

Ken

 

Hey Ken,  Yes, it is my intent to respond to the ones that have music+lyrics - That's what's been so frustrating. Lately, it seems most (and I mean most) of the songs posted in the Song Critique category that actually have lyrics are posted here without lyrics!  Bearing in mind that half of the posts in this 'Song' category are not really songs, they're instrumentals, my hands are tied.

[M57]

1 hour ago, Peggy said:

Yes, i find myself also asking for the lyric and hope we can encourage members to provide the lyric. This is especially important if the lyric and vocal tracks are part of what they would like to be considered in the critique.

 

We are putting together FAQ's and videos that will help the new members adapt quickly to the site and also provide the established member a reference. 

 

Peggy

 

https://forums.songstuff.com/forum/299-critique-wip/

 

Hi Peggy, Thank you for your response.  I certainly don't wish for you to change things if they're working for most people - They just haven't been working for me at all as of late, and I can even understand why some people would purposely NOT want to post their lyrics.  But I agree - as general guideline for members who wish to get the most from the site, it should be highly recommended.

.

If the FAQ for everything is in one place, I'm not sure that's enough.  I don't see any problem with duplicating relevant info at the top of each board on a sticky.

 

1 hour ago, Peggy said:

 

We have been reorganizing the boards and all is not complete.  As to do with the Song Critique board, we have been moving the WIP songs to the Draft Song Critique board and implementing tagging to identify some of the items you mentioned ie. Instumental, lyrics, genre, 1 minute songs, mix, arrangement, etc.  Tags will reflect what the piece of work is and also what part of the song the member wants to be critiqued, or if they are wanting overall impressions.  This will make it easier to id for both the critiquer and the member that started the topic. We will also encourage members to identify when their song is complete and we will have other boards where the songs can be reviewed, showcased and highlighted as featured or finished works. 

 

Strange - I didn't even know about the Draft Song Critique Board!  I think that's great! and tags might be perfect, especially if they are conspicuously set up so that posters feel obligated to use them. E.g.  A "Lyrics Included" tag would not only be helpful to folks like me, but they would serve as a friendly reminder to the poster that this is a good idea.   I know that I'm borderline rude about asking people to post - especially with my signature - but it is born of frustration.  I look forward to removing it when things improve.

 

Mark

[ImKeN]

8 minutes ago, M57 said:

Bearing in mind that half of the posts in this 'Song' category are not really songs, they're instrumentals, my hands are tied.

 

I hardly remember the discussion Songstuffers had about what a "song" means, but in my book a song is a song and an instrumental is an instrumental. I usually indicate that in my title headings whenever I post my stuff for critique - mostly instrumentals hehe 

 

We can't control what others do but perhaps our moderators could keep a close eye on these posts and offer some guidance to the newer members? 

 

This is not important but personally, if I wanted a good critique of a song, I would post it in both the lyric and the song critique boards - with the lyrics attached, of course. I hardly ever see lyricists in the song critique section and vice versa. 

[M57]

1 minute ago, ImKeN said:

 

I hardly remember the discussion Songstuffers had about what a "song" means, but in my book a song is a song and an instrumental is an instrumental. I usually indicate that in my title headings whenever I post my stuff for critique - mostly instrumentals hehe 

 

 

I seem to remember that there was no consensus.  I was surprised to find how may considered instrumental music to still be a "song."  But I see no problem with a forum like this more narrowly defining things for purposes of making it easier for members to get the most out of the site.

[john]

You will be glad to see that the tag filtering we have been working on behind the scenes is now live on all the critique boards.

 

Next stop will be the training vids, usage guidelines and board specific tags... to try and get members to not only post appropriate content for the board but give more clarity on what they have and what they are looking for.

 

Tagging especially will help.

[M57]

5 minutes ago, john said:

You will be glad to see that the tag filtering we have been working on behind the scenes is now live on all the critique boards.

 

Next stop will be the training vids, usage guidelines and board specific tags... to try and get members to not only post appropriate content for the board but give more clarity on what they have and what they are looking for.

 

Tagging especially will help.

 

I'll give it a try tonight and post a tune!  ..with lyrics of course.

[ImKeN]

10 minutes ago, M57 said:

But I see no problem with a forum like this more narrowly defining things for purposes of making it easier for members to get the most out of the site.

 

Totally agree, it will make things flow a lot smoothly in my opinion.

[M57]

Am I missing something?  I'm noticing tags are all user defined. ..with no pre-made 'reminder/suggestive' tags?

 

Heck, I don't even know what tags to create..

[Michan]

5 minutes ago, M57 said:

Hmm, I'm noticing tags are all user created? ..with no pre-made 'reminder/suggestive' tags?

 

Heck, I don't even know what tags to create.. 

 

Don't worry M57! We are going to make  post for the tags recommended for use in each board, so we can get a format/model to follow up. This info should be available very soon!

[M57]

2 minutes ago, Michan said:

 

Don't worry M57! We are going to make  post for the tags recommended for use in each board, so we can get a format/model to follow up. This info should be available very soon!

 

Great! For now, I'll just tag it like I normally would on SC.. mostly about style, genre, etc.

[Michan]

Perfect! That's exactly the type of tag classification and distinction we are making, so, you'll probably be using the same tags we are going to be suggesting in the post! Thanks!!

[M57]

1 minute ago, Michan said:

Perfect! That's exactly the type of tag classification and distinction we are making, so, you'll probably be using the same tags we are going to be suggesting in the post! Thanks!!

I'm seeing the suggestions that pop up as I type - Liking that part.  Would be great if some pre-made tags were sitting there for the picking but this is an awesome addition.

[john]

Just now, M57 said:

I'm seeing the suggestions that pop up as I type - Liking that part.  Would be great if some pre-made tags were sitting there for the picking but this is an awesome addition.

 

Awesome.

 

We have put in a request to the coder to allow us to define board specific tags where only those tags would be allowed on that board. In the short term we are planning to pin a topic with board specific tags.

 

We plan on a video that explains the need for tags and gives a tutorial in their use.

 

As things stand we can either have user defined tags or staff defined tags, not both. The closest we can get is staff suggested tags which are the suggestions you describe.

 

Once members get more into using tags in a way that helps filtering there will be a smaller set of tags.

 

Meanwhile we will explore tags further.