Do You Subscribe To This Songwriting Idea?

[AnthonyCeseri]

Do you subscribe to the idea that the verses of your song should be very specific and detail oriented, while the choruses are more general? I've always thought that was a great and organized way to write and I've heard it taught this way many times. 

 

On the other hand, I've heard Springsteen say he approaches things the opposite of this. 

 

What do you think?

[john]

For me, I tend to write with the verse providing detail such as an evolving story, or painting images, but rather than making the chorus "more general" I use the chorus to comment on the verse or offer a different perspective while in both cases using the chorus to deliver the fundamental message of the song. I don't always follow this pattern but it is my dominant approach.

 

Either way, in AB or ABC form you are using distinct musical sections, generally establishing variations in dynamic and emotional intensity from section to section. As such there is a strong encouragement for the lyrics to follow suite, giving a different lyrical feel from section to section. Perspective, tone, vehicle and purpose are obvious variations to include, on a sectional basis, whether you assign detail to verse and message to chorus or the other way around.

 

There are obvious reasons why a chorus tends to have the message.

 

• Choruses tend to have the catchiest musical hooks.
• A message is communicated at it's best when it is repeated.
• Multiple voices serve to underline and strengthen the lyrics, which makes them ideally suited to deliver messages.
• Multiple voices singing a repeated line matches the definition of a chorus (chorus being the name for multiple voices, it's the root of the section of music we now call a chorus)

 

That said a chorus can still add detail, or evolve meaning as choruses can and do sometimes contain lines that change from repetition to repetition, but the chorus is the section that contains the primary lyrical hook, hook melody etc.

 

True the picture becomes a bit more complicated if you deviate away from a standard AB (verse-chorus) form, for example to include a refrain line within the verse, the chorus still fulfils it's fundamental purpose.

 

Maybe Bruce has just decided to swap what he calls verse and what he calls chorus?

[Rudi]

I never really thought about it, but I can think of several songs that work this way (even my own, - subliminal influence?).

 

Thanks for bringing this to notice.

[AnthonyCeseri]

For me, I tend to write with the verse providing detail such as an evolving story, or painting images, but rather than making the chorus "more general" I use the chorus to comment on the verse or offer a different perspective while in both cases using the chorus to deliver the fundamental message of the song. I don't always follow this pattern but it is my dominant approach.

 

Hey John -- yeah, I think that's a really good way of looking at it. You also then have to consider a further perspective... 

[Jim622]

I guess it shows my inexperience or lack of committment (I guess). I never really thought about the process.

Food for thought - Thanks.

 

Jim

[AnthonyCeseri]

I guess it shows my inexperience or lack of committment (I guess). I never really thought about the process.

Food for thought - Thanks.

 

[tomcollins]

think if a song brings forth an emotion to a heightened level , in any form it has done it's job , me verses build to the climax , the chorus ,  

[AnthonyCeseri]

think if a song brings forth an emotion to a heightened level , in any form it has done it's job , me verses build to the climax , the chorus ,  

 

Yeah, that sounds like a good approach

[Will23]

After getting hit with the inspiration (how it usually happens for me), the situation dictates based on what inspired me and the "mood" I'm in.  As crazy as that sounds, it's true and I don't know how many others can relate to this, but here we go.

 

I watched a movie the other night about family.  I started thinking about MY family and (particularly) my two year old son.  Given the theme of the movie and where the inspiration was taking me, I came up with an initial draft that's probably going to end up as a ballad, but has potential for a moderate country pace.  I was thinking about the ABAB, ABC structure and wanted something different.  There are times (for me) when "traditional" just doesn't feel right so I wrote "The Spitting Image of Me" with 5 verses and no chorus.  The last half of the last line of each verse is, ".......the spitting image of me".  It think it's a good initial draft, but the structure doesn't parallel any other traditional setups that I've seen.  Not the first time I've written a song with that same structure (it was a ballad too).  My very first song that was structured like this was a good one "Message For You", BUT got some good criticism because it not only had no chorus, BUT also didn't state what the "Message For You" was.  Hey, it was my first attempt at anything like that and was a few years ago.  Anyway, just food for thought.

[kevinbayne]

When i never really considered accomplishing this.

[Caduceus]

Due to my relative inexperience I'll just say first that I haven't written enough, let alone had a fanbase for one of my songs commercially or otherwise, to say that one style works best for me over another in this regard.  I will, however, like to throw in with Will23 on the great songs that had either verses but nor chorus, or, in the case of Queen and others, a multitude of choruses and verses.  Rock opera tends to those more than others, but I digress.  I try to write what feels best for the song instead of forcing it one way or another, though it still doesn't flow as freely as writing prose fiction does for me yet.  I'm working on it though, which is part of why I joined here tonight.

[Cal Scotland]

Most of my songs lack choruses and rely on a refrain or a short hook. A lot of times the hook or refrain may appear to have no influence from or on the verses but the bigger picture usually ties it together. So in a way I follow the mantra you've stated.

[chased]

Do you have any Springsteen songs as examples of this turnaround? There's no reason why it shouldn't work, especially with poetic skills like those of The Boss. It seems as a rule though, if you take most songs the approach Anthony suggests will be the norm.

 

Another way of looking at comparative lyrics for verse and chorus is that the verse deals with information, or the story, where the chorus provides an emotional comment on what has been introduced in the verse. These lyrical imperatives are supported by the musical hooks and melodies stuff John talks about above.

 

As a side issue, it seems the bridge often provides a resolution to a story or an answer to a problem, a new direction or a new angle.

 

But hey, if we can discover these "rules" without even knowing about them, they are either so hard-wired that they are too obvious to mention, or so essential that songs just don't work without them.  

[RAKIDO]

I agree with chased's answers above, I think the most important thing verses can do is relate to the title and the chorus is more how you're feeling.

[uncle808us]

I use verses to tell a story and the chorus to express the general feeling of the idea( feeling) of the story.

[Kel]

To put it in non-musical terms:

 

     My verses provide the examples to support the conclusion presented in the chrorus.

 

For those rare times I don't have distinctive verses and choruses (chorai?)

 

    the first n lines support the conclusion presented in the hook (usually last) line of each verse.

 

My bridge will usually describe the reaching of a crisis point, decision time, a call to action, or just a totally different perspective.

 

But I won't argue with what the Boss says, he has sold way more records than I have!

 

Kel

Edited May 23, 2013 by Kel

[Rudi]

You lot are so organisied.

 

Kel,

Your bridge function has just given me a good idea for mine. Thanks

[Kel]

Rudi,

 

It's all about sharing... and tell me, what is it about cucumbers?

 

Kel

[Rudi]

I wrote a song lyric called 'just another cucumber'.

 

However, when I put it to music it became 'just another shallot'.

 

There are very few songs about vegatables you know.

[Kel]

Now you come to mention it, apart from The Wiggles' children's songs like Mashed Potato, and Fruit Salad, I can't think of any. Even Strawberry Wine wasn't really about strawberries!

 

K