How do you compose?

[Dazzyt66]

I thought I'd ask what may be a silly question: how do you compose? What comes first? Melody? Percussion/drums? Base?

 

I'm asking because I'm moving into the world of composing my own music to go with lyrics. When I've done this with guitar it's fairly easy, I come up with the lyrics, have an idea how it sounds and then put chords together. When I do this now with multiple instruments I'm not sure which way works best - the melody in my head doesn't always fit with how I progress to a draft song when I start including drums and base. In fact, drum lines seem to drive my thought process more at the moment. 

 

How do you go about it?

[Richard Tracey]

I change how I do it all the time, but mostly come up with a melody on the keyboard and then put a drummer down, build up the melody/bass etc, then tweak the drums and then vocals/lyrics. 

 

Sometimes lyrics come first and a melody in my head for that.

 

A lot of the time, coming up with a drum line can spark creativity.

[Snowman]

I've done it so many different ways. Lately I fiddle on acoustic and put together a chord structure and add lyrics later. I find lyric inspiration while watching the news. Which is pretty messed up. But,  in the end, whatever gets the job done works.

 

I've always been a rhythm based guitarist. So, if I'm strumming an A, my fingers hold that A. I know that sounds boring. But, since my roots go back to punk, it's a punk thing to do. I saw Johnny Thunders (a guitar God to me) play solo, he was always simple and beautiful. But, lately I've challenged myself to lift a finger or two. Watching TV while writing. Oh and my friends freaking out that the world is going to end because Trump is President. I say "Relax". 

 

 

[Dazzyt66]

19 hours ago, tunesmithth said:

I should that advice on questions like this will vary.

Different folks have different methodology & mine tends to be a little more old-school.

The prevalence of software creation has muddied the waters of methodology, but your question is still a good one! 

 

Tom

Great advice Tom TBH I expected lots of different answers, but I'm still curious. Going back to your earlier post, I think it's the arrangement that's throwing me, more so now I have lots of instruments and sounds at my disposal albeit all virtual. Putting lyrics to 3 or 4 guitar chords was easy enough and either tune or lyric would flow as I went along (although there was always a danger then that my songs all sounded too similar). So I guess the arrangements now are gonna be a bit more trial and error... 🤔

[Dazzyt66]

16 hours ago, Richard Tracey said:

A lot of the time, coming up with a drum line can spark creativity.

Ha ha ha - I'm finding that is exactly the point where I start rewriting everything to fit the drum beat... 🤔

[symphonious7]

Drums get me going in a lot of ways too.  I'd say 75 percent of my process is all in the mind.  I have a pretty thorough concept of what I want to do before I ever even touch an instrument.  In fact sometimes recording one part will ruin the magic.  I seem to be best at planning everything in my head BEFORE I hear anything truly recorded, once something is recorded it changes how I hear the song in my head for some reason.  That's why I'll often just pace/dance around my room imagining parts and jamming out to music in my head for hours and hours before I feel ready to record it.  I always get a bit of anxiety when it comes time to record because some of my "awesome" ideas turned quite sour once I began recording and there's always that fear I'm gonna record myself out of a cool idea.  

 

Bass parts are tough, I tend to want to write them like you'd write guitar licks but that causes them to walk all over all the other parts.  I record the drums first as of recently because I find it helps everything else feel right.  I suppose I do come up with parts as I record and sometimes I'll play around on the keyboard trying to come up with things, but whenever I do it that way the ideas aren't as good.  The best ideas happen when I keep it all in the mind, and try to let stream of consciousness take over so that parts just hit me as I'm going over and over the idea in my mind.  I'll make sure I've thoroughly tapped myself out with imagining ideas before I record cause like I said, once things start getting recorded it's hard to get back to what I was envisioning.  I think it's because the real recordings begin to replace what my mind was hearing, and I can't really go back to the original feeling I had anymore.  

 

I think that answers your question, not really sure haha

[Dazzyt66]

10 minutes ago, symphonious7 said:

Drums get me going in a lot of ways too.  I'd say 75 percent of my process is all in the mind.  I have a pretty thorough concept of what I want to do before I ever even touch an instrument.  In fact sometimes recording one part will ruin the magic.  I seem to be best at planning everything in my head BEFORE I hear anything truly recorded, once something is recorded it changes how I hear the song in my head for some reason.  That's why I'll often just pace/dance around my room imagining parts and jamming out to music in my head for hours and hours before I feel ready to record it.  I always get a bit of anxiety when it comes time to record because some of my "awesome" ideas turned quite sour once I began recording and there's always that fear I'm gonna record myself out of a cool idea.  

 

Bass parts are tough, I tend to want to write them like you'd write guitar licks but that causes them to walk all over all the other parts.  I record the drums first as of recently because I find it helps everything else feel right.  I suppose I do come up with parts as I record and sometimes I'll play around on the keyboard trying to come up with things, but whenever I do it that way the ideas aren't as good.  The best ideas happen when I keep it all in the mind, and try to let stream of consciousness take over so that parts just hit me as I'm going over and over the idea in my mind.  I'll make sure I've thoroughly tapped myself out with imagining ideas before I record cause like I said, once things start getting recorded it's hard to get back to what I was envisioning.  I think it's because the real recordings begin to replace what my mind was hearing, and I can't really go back to the original feeling I had anymore.  

 

I think that answers your question, not really sure haha

Ha ha I totally get this!!

 

What is frustrating me a little at the moment is that I have a sound in my head, I try and replicate that but then it sounds, what's the word? Oh yeah, crap. lol which then makes me start rethinking it but I can't seem to shift that original thought I had, to move it in a different direction... lol

 

or

 

I find s drum/base beat that I like and then I start re-fitting everything around that, which then changes a lot of what I was thinking in the first place!

 

I guess so long as the end result works any approach is valid though...😀

[Richard Tracey]

There is no right or wrong here. As long as the way you get there produces what you want, you can go about it any way you want.

 

Sometimes if a song changes from your initial thought, then maybe it will be better, or you might feel like going back to the original. It all depends on what you want for the song. Working with others or getting critiques can certainly help you affirm whether you are going in the right direction for you or not.

[Rudi]

this question has been asked several times, and extensively discussed. I cant find those threads. 

 

My methods have mostly given way to intuition since then. Its similar to hearing ideas mentally & then realising them with the guitar. 

[Dazzyt66]

54 minutes ago, Rudi said:

this question has been asked several times, and extensively discussed. I cant find those threads. 

 

My methods have mostly given way to intuition since then. Its similar to hearing ideas mentally & then realising them with the guitar. 

I thought it may have been but I couldn't find anything either, so, here we go again I guess. 

 

I think intuition is on is becoming my best friend... 🙂

[Dazzyt66]

9 hours ago, Snowman said:

I've done it so many different ways. Lately I fiddle on acoustic and put together a chord structure and add lyrics later. I find lyric inspiration while watching the news. Which is pretty messed up. But,  in the end, whatever gets the job done works.

 

I've always been a rhythm based guitarist. So, if I'm strumming an A, my fingers hold that A. I know that sounds boring. But, since my roots go back to punk, it's a punk thing to do. I saw Johnny Thunders (a guitar God to me) play solo, he was always simple and beautiful. But, lately I've challenged myself to lift a finger or two. Watching TV while writing. Oh and my friends freaking out that the world is going to end because Trump is President. I say "Relax". 

 

 

This track defo made me smile - and the end actually made me lol. Brill! 👍

[MikeRobinson]

Per contra, a lot of my music originates in a (free, and awesome!) musical scoring program, MuseScore.

 

(Uh huh, "sheet music!") 

 

But I think that the most(!) important thing to remember is that the creative process is "one part inspiration, nine parts perspiration!"  In other words, "it won't show up 'like Venus popping out of a clamshell on the beach, fully-formed (and  completely starkers).'"  Nope, the final composition is going to be what you decide that it should be ... and there's going to be an awful lot of very arbitrary(!) decision-making to do.

 

Never, at any point, expect to hear "a celestial harp-strum," or to see a beam of light coming down from heaven showing you exactly what to do next.  "There is no 'right' answer ... only 'your' answer."

 

Even though the audience will only hear "the finished product ... tah dahhh!!," and is free to imagine that it popped out of a clamshell on the beach, you have no such luxuries.  They only see the finished muscle-car tooling its way down the highway ... but you remember oily hands and a garage full of parts scattered all over the floor.

 

"Pssst!! Don't tell them what the actual creative process is really like! They prefer clamshells (and naked women) ..."

 

- - - 

Another key, I think, is:  "never throw anything away!"  You're not exactly going to run out of hard-drive space, so keep everything, even if you "throw it away and never want to see it again."  Because, one day, it might turn out to be exactly what you were looking for.  Keep all your drafts, all your intermediates, and all your "junk."  And, anytime and everytime you're "just noodling around on your instrument," hit Record!

 

In the end, songs aren't something that "comes in a clamshell."  They're something that you make, in a creative process that is entirely invisible to the audience.  There was a time when Michelangelo's David lived in a quarry.  Today, I defy to find a single chisel-mark on it ...

[Shanethefilmmaker]

On 9/9/2017 at 10:44 AM, Dazzyt66 said:

I thought I'd ask what may be a silly question: how do you compose? What comes first? Melody? Percussion/drums? Base?

 

I'm asking because I'm moving into the world of composing my own music to go with lyrics. When I've done this with guitar it's fairly easy, I come up with the lyrics, have an idea how it sounds and then put chords together. When I do this now with multiple instruments I'm not sure which way works best - the melody in my head doesn't always fit with how I progress to a draft song when I start including drums and base. In fact, drum lines seem to drive my thought process more at the moment. 

 

How do you go about it?

With me, Composing is the hardest part because while I do understand notation I suck at writing it down. Until I discovered programs like MuseScore, mainly because each note you click makes a sound. It's refreshing for those who prefer to play by ear. Myself included.  As for how to start, that really depends on how you go about your song.  With me, I base it on the most dominant instrument I want.  For example say I wanted a brass heavy song I'd start with brass instruments. If I wanted a string heavy song, string instruments. And so on. Just pick what you wanna tackle first then add the others.

[Samuel Lambert]

I come up with the song idea with a flat top guitar and then i use a click track. Next drums and bass then fill in the rest

 

 

[MikeRobinson]

I actually do a lot of composing with a music-scoring application (MuseScore, which is open-source and extremely powerful).  I start with a few basic musical ideas – motifs – then try to develop them into a basic song arrangement that initially is just a "lead sheet."

 

Then, there's a lot of pure experimentation:  "what if we do this?"  Listening to a section and wondering what might make it stronger – a counter-melody, a bass line, a contrasting sound or rhythm.  Likewise listening to the entire song, broken down into sections, and re-arranging those sections.  Keep everything.  You really don't(!) know where you might be going when you start, and you never know when what seemed to be "a dead end" was just waiting to find its proper place.  Never listen for "angelic choirs" to announce to you that you have found "the right answer."  You might come up with several different developments of the same idea.  This is not a deterministic process.

[Capo3tanya]

Usually when I tinker on my guitar whatever comes out of it reflects my emotional state.  If it's something I particularly like, I develop it.  Then I try to write words for it, what does this make me feel, what does it feel like it's about.  Once I have words I can create the melody, although often I will have the right tones or notes in mind before hand.  I will find tones that resonate within the music beautifully.  Then once I have words I can string those tones together in various ways according to the lyrical structure. Once a song is solid in my mind that's when I start hearing the accompaniments and embellishments. 

[MikeRobinson]

One thing I've noticed almost every musician doing, when they give an interview and start to play something ... they turn on a tape-recorder.  (It used to be reel-to-reel.  These days, they fiddle with their phone and then set it down on a nearby table.)  But they record everything that they do.

 

I suggest that you do the same thing.  When you're "just noodling around on the keyboard or the guitar or what-have-you," use your phone's voice recorder to record – and keep – everything.  If you find yourself playing something that sounds cool, say things to yourself "on tape" to help you re-create it later.  ("That's an Am7!"  "That's B to upper G.")

 

Likewise, when "a song comes to your head" in the most-improbable of places, and you're humming it to yourself, grab your phone and capture it.  (No, you will not remember it!  Hum it, and add spoken comments to further describe what you're hearing in your mind's ear.)  Then, when you're sitting at your workstation and wondering what to do this evening, grab one of those recordings and start trying to work it into a song ... recording yourself as you do it.

 

Also – use the "notes" features of your DAW!  Write down your thoughts and plans for the project.  Then, never delete those notes.  Also learn about, and use, the "version" features of your software.

 

Keep everything!  (Uhh, it's not exactly like you're gonna 'run out of disk space,' eh?  And if you do, that's what external drives are for!  They're dirt-cheap now.)

 

(Wanna "throw it away?"  Drop it into the "NotSoTrash" folder and then forget that it exists.)

[lemonstar]

Although I have written songs in a number of different ways the vast majority come from me improvising words and chords at the same time - I may only have a couple of chords, a single odd chord that's caught my attention or a phrase or a single line - it can be either and I may or may not have a clear idea of where I am going with it - I will just play and try and find the next chord, try and find a melody for the few words I have - see what I can develop - either the few chord or a few extra words ad-libbed might give me a direction to go in - this is they way I've always done it. I don't record or write anything until I think I've got something worth keeping and that may only be a few lines  and I'll just record on my camera - the quality is OK even though I have other gear which is much better I really can't be arsed setting it up. I will jot words down on paper and write them up with chords and print it out and stick it on my music stand so that it's on view every time I walk past it on the way to the kitchen - my camera is on a bookcase nearby.

 

If you read Paul Zollo's THICK book on song writing the biggest section is about Paul Simon - he says that after Graceland his style changed and I seem to, more or less, from what I can tell, do what he does - he described the process and finding the end of a thread and just following it, not knowing where it would go, i.e. how the song would develop, or what it would mean, he doesn't try to imprint any meaning on it as he goes along - this is the way he continues to write and in that last respect I differ greatly from his approach because in nearly all my songs the narrative is based on something real going on in my life or it might be based around the life of someone or something that's occupying my mind at the time.

[DaveKell]

I have an OCD with respect to writing. I obsessively use graph paper on a custom made wooden clipboard and write with a pen with pink ink. The light blue graph lines are a nice contrast to the ink color. The graph squares are a way I can visually see the balance of words in each line of lyrics. If I lost this setup I'd be up a creek. I'd have to track down the woodworker who made the clipboard to get another one and find another PaperMate Ink Joy gel pen to get back into it.

 

Lyrics usually come first, with up to possibly one or two revisions before going to guitar to work out a melody. I've only started with a title once. A lady at my weekly jam gave it to me. She said it had been on her mind for a few years but she couldn't do anything with it. That drove me crazy for a week trying to write from somebody else's title. I'm not falling for that again. Also, only once have I ever worked out a guitar melody that I later put words to. It's my most eclectic song to date. Given my intermediate guitar skills it'll never be a standard way to write for me.

 

I feel fortunate my doctor prescribed a medication for me I asked him for. I read it was the inspiration for the Limitless pill in the movie and tv show of the same name. It's called Provigil, also know by generic name of Modafinil. It's a class of meds known as a "nootropic", which enhances cognitive functioning. There is a profound difference between my writing ability taking it versus not taking it. I don't become the superman the guys do in the Limitless shows, that's  exaggerated for dramatic impact. It definitely enhances my brain function though. The US military provides the med for fighter pilots to keep them sharp. Also, doctors working long shifts in hospitals use it. It's rampant among White House staff. Silicon Valley employees and investment professionals comprise a huge segment of users. They've attributed some of their most profitable ideas to its use in articles I've read. I highly recommend it to anybody who has a doctor they've got a good relationship with who they might get to prescribe it.

 

https://blog.bulletproof.com/q-a-why-i-use-modafinil-provigil/

An article on Provigil to illustrate my point.

[nenopro]

I usually write rough sketches on my piano, after that i program, modify and orchestrate the sketch in daws (First finale then cubase). I don't know if this works for a typical band, it works for me and my style of writing music.