hiatus

[Richard Tracey]

I agree - what we need to do though is bring in and culture the members. If that means they come for a certain style of music, we give them a place for that. This is a diverse site, with a diverse membership, who like all different styles and genres. The problem at the moment is, getting them to comment on Styles they do not feel comfortable with. It has been commented on that sometimes the critique offered isn’t really a critique and is not helpful to the member. Everyone needs to start somewhere and some don’t feel comfortable with passing that kind of critique off the bat. We need to nurture that and not dispirit the members.

 

I had stop commenting on topics, mainly because every time I listened to a song, I felt inspiration and wanted to start something new. That wasn’t helping me. I wasn’t getting anything finished. But there was also that a lot of the content I could comment on, I didn’t feel qualified to comment as it is not my genre and it is not a genre I particularly like or feel comfortable passing comment on. There are different rules for different genres regardless of what people think and sometimes it is best that people who like that genre pass the comment as they know it well enough to do so.

 

Dek writes strange lyrics to a lot of his music. I love those lyrics. I don’t believe lyrics need to make sense or tell a story, as long as there is imagery and it fits the song. A lot of people don’t like that.

 

I get fed up with lyrics that feel like they have been said a million times before in almost the same way. So I feel like I want to comment on that, but again, I don’t know the genre well enough, it may be that this is normal. To me I might want to offer suggestions that would change a lot of what the person has written, but would still tell the same story. But does that mean I am writing it with my ‘synth’ head on, instead of ‘acoustic guitar’ or something like that.

 

So how do we address that. We try and target new members to join. Members who like specific genres, me,bees who have eclectic tastes in music, so they are commenting and contributing to something they feel comfortable with.

 

For a while the lyric section was the busiest place on here, but most of them felt either Rock or Country orientated. We need to get more variety going to maintain a decent membership base. The hip-hop part seems to have died away, why? We need to look at this address why we are struggling to recruit and maintain members who like specific genres and want to talk about them.

[Just1L]

I was a mod on another forum years back. That was divided into genres, not very well, but genres none-the-less. There was also a section called Friday Night Open Mic. That was for all genres, songs posted on Friday. That was the section that was most active and most fun, with everyone from all genres commenting on other songs because it was expected. The other parts of the forum didn't work as well. But, times have changed and maybe something like that could work. A group of genre communities that meet every week or so to "jam" with one of their songs.

[Dazzyt66]

1 hour ago, Just1L said:

I was a mod on another forum years back. That was divided into genres, not very well, but genres none-the-less. There was also a section called Friday Night Open Mic. That was for all genres, songs posted on Friday. That was the section that was most active and most fun, with everyone from all genres commenting on other songs because it was expected. The other parts of the forum didn't work as well. But, times have changed and maybe something like that could work. A group of genre communities that meet every week or so to "jam" with one of their songs.

Yeah!! Let’s have open mic Friday in the lounge - I love getting boo’d off stage on a Friday... lol

 

Seriously, I like that idea though...

 

👍

[Just1L]

If we were to so something like an open mic, I think it should be all about the song. Not a critique, or suggestions, mix tips. Just about the song. That way there'd be no pressure for any and everyone to participate.

[Dazzyt66]

Just now, Just1L said:

If we were to so something like an open mic, I think it should be all about the song. Not a critique, or suggestions, mix tips. Just about the song. That way there'd be no pressure for any and everyone to participate.

Agree. Open mics should be fun(?). We need something like a clapometer...

 

[Richard Tracey]

Rob - you have touched on a lot of points that are being discussed at the moment. It is good that you are all thinking this way, as it makes it easier when or if the changes come.

 

The membership has also been discussed as long with a lot of really interesting things.

[MonoStone]

If we're talking about branding and the message new visitors might get.... The line 'Your songs, our know how' isn't going to attract new members to a forum especially well, in my opinion.

 

I don't think the you/our... us/them... works in terms of a forum. It suggests an organisation of experts, a service to songwriters, rather than a forum/community. 

 

I know there's some knowledge base to Songstuff, and maybe plans to make it more of a service, but to me its strength is or should be the forum, and the strength of a forum is in the number, quality and devotion of the members.

 

NOT related to my 'quality' comment really, but just an idea - To boost memberships... a few 'names' would help to attract new people to join. For example I've been a member of some poker forums where the professional stars get involved with everyone else, no separation, and that's an attraction.... and not something paid for... I mean all just members of a forum. And the forums I'm thinking of have become huge.

 

Oh and... IMO... having the 'Resource' part of the site as the first tab (and I guess maybe a landing for some new visitors?) is probably a mistake because that page feels like it's confused and kind of lacking currently. I'm guessing most visitors come for the forum?? But that's not put first?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Richard Tracey]

4 hours ago, MonoStone said:

If we're talking about branding and the message new visitors might get.... The line 'Your songs, our know how' isn't going to attract new members to a forum especially well, in my opinion.

 

I don't think the you/our... us/them... works in terms of a forum. It suggests an organisation of experts, a service to songwriters, rather than a forum/community. 

 

I know there's some knowledge base to Songstuff, and maybe plans to make it more of a service, but to me its strength is or should be the forum, and the strength of a forum is in the number, quality and devotion of the members.

 

NOT related to my 'quality' comment really, but just an idea - To boost memberships... a few 'names' would help to attract new people to join. For example I've been a member of some poker forums where the professional stars get involved with everyone else, no separation, and that's an attraction.... and not something paid for... I mean all just members of a forum. And the forums I'm thinking of have become huge.

 

Oh and... IMO... having the 'Resource' part of the site as the first tab (and I guess maybe a landing for some new visitors?) is probably a mistake because that page feels like it's confused and kind of lacking currently. I'm guessing most visitors come for the forum?? But that's not put first?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dek, this has also been part of the discussions including the ‘named’ persons. It is a slow process because John is being asked to do everything for that at the moment, as there is only so much the other team members can do.

 

 

[Jim622]

Dave - I agree with your idea for the Showcase. I see what it was meant to do, but a place on the site for artist just interested in being heard, and expanding their listener base (with some parameters of course), could definitely be a boom for the site. Some spill over from these artist would definitely be seen in the rest of the site as well. Nicely stated. I also found it a little appropriate and humorous with the turn this thread took in Rudi's wake.

[Pahchisme Plaid]

I was thinking much the same, @Rob Ash.  I hate to see Songstuff become just another dump site where people drop their songs hoping for “like” clicks.  I love what Songstuff is now.  It has a degree of integrity that I’ve not seen in other forums I’ve belonged to.  One such forum was excellent until the moderater no longer moderated (and it did not offer all the wonderful resources that Songstuff does).  Then it declined within 6 mos to a year and became a dump site for click likes and is slowly reaching its death.  If there was a specific purpose John set out to meet with this site, it must have appeal to have at one time attracted and is still attracting the numbers it has.  I think perhaps if we are looking to attract indie songwriters, we need to appeal to fans. Not saying have them become members, but rather listeners.  Isn’t that what songwriters want? Listeners/fans?     Perhaps do a Friday night visual “public” open mic opening with an already well-established cover band (sorry, but the average non-songwriter like what’s familiar) followed by a Songstuff member (promoting their newest release) and introducing other bands/singer/songwriters who have at least sent a demo in (to prove no pitch issues, etc) and to give some “challenge” to it—wher’s the integrity in just simple walk-ins.  You want to hold a certain standard, especially so as not to lose fans. BUT, have this all as an aside to attract other songwriters (because they’re looking for a fan base) and don’t alter what Songstuff is or its purpose.

[Jim622]

Rob - I agree with Dave's last post. I wouldn't want to see Songstuff's basic format change. That's what I like about this site. A place where artist can just come to get they're music heard is something artists with aspirations will come too. Directly some may not want anything more than that, but many will see the other benefits the site has to offer, increasing membership. As for me at 54, this site helps with my internal fulfillment, and it does that fine, aspirations are a pipe dream now. I see the sites need for change, but not its basic...lets say 'mission statement' (my military side rears its ugly head).

[Richard Tracey]

4 hours ago, HoboSage said:

Well, maintaining a certain standard is fine.  But, that seems to equate with a non-money-making standard. 

 

P.S.  Oh. I almost forgot.  I also think it's outrageous that there's no further level after "nectar of the gods" upon reaching the 2,000 reputation. mark  OUT-f*ckIN-RAGEOUS!!!  <heh-heh>   

 

David - that will cost extra

[Richard Tracey]

Ok - is there a general feeling that you would like a Friday Night club type thing?

 

If so, this is something the members can set up and maintain as the facility is there.

 

Similar, if you would like a mosh-pit type experience again.

 

Then the question is, how much interaction do you want from the moderators or the team members in these areas?

 

@john - if the general consensus is that the members would like this set-up, will it be set-up by using the Club facility that you have integrated into the site recently?

[starise]

I don't claim to have the magic answers to any of this.. Sometimes when something doesn't seem  to be going the way we want it to go, we either blame the way it is or try to jump start it with whatever ideas we have at the time. Sometimes things don't go as well as we plan no matter what we do. 

 

John has put a paypal link here. I know it can be a source of frustration to put resources into something and not see anything coming of it. I would suggest dropping John some funds. This does a lot for morale. Some here have contributed, but I think more could do so. I would encourage anyone who can to maybe once every several months contribute on a regular basis.

 

I hope I don't step on any toes here. I see much of what is happening as a fragmentation of specific direction. JMHO. Everyone has an agenda it seems. I mean, you come here to GET something correct? I think I originally came here to see what it was all about. I remember being here years ago and thinking it was kinda slow then. Songstuff clearly wants to GET something too. GETTING something is how both Reverbnation and Soundcloud were built.

 

I believe Songstuff has attempted to help as many people as possible get what they came for. I don't know why I'm coming around now. I'm not selling books. I'm not selling myself. Yes I am making music all the time, but I'm not actively selling it. For me, I think it's probably the forum communication and reading others thoughts on things. Also the expression possible through writing. The way we as musicians deal with life day to day is interesting to me.

 

I haven't seen the google numbers on SS. It isn't any of my business. I would suspect though, from looking at what happens here, there are literally thousands of stop bys and a few who stay. In that sense there is a kind of constant rotation going on. 

 

You can't be everything to everyone. I personally don't think it's a good idea to add even more areas. The best forums I've seen are the ones where there is a homogenization  of ideas coming from different people in different genres. Trying to keep everything separated works against us IMO.

 

Like I said in the beginning. I don't claim to have any magic answers to any of this, other than to say. If you use SS try your best to support it on a  regular basis.

 

Using volunteers is risky business. Many web sites use them. We've had some really good volunteers here, but I see that as someone who has no stake in it trying to help. There is sometimes a stake in it in indirect ways. If there wasn't I doubt volunteers would be interested. Volunteers show interest though. The motive is immaterial. It really is nothing more than HTML on the web. It's the perception that makes it what it is.

[starise]

And if the primary reason people initially come here is to post music, I would make that the focus. Front and center. Easy to find. Practically jumps out and bites you kind of thing.

 

Unless that isn't why you want them to come here. 

 

In the other forum I go to which might be soon unplugged because Gibson closed Cakewalk, the songs area is a small area. some of the most popular areas are hardware, software, technical and the "coffeehouse". It isn't mainly about people posting music there although they do that too.

That forum has been so successful, people who use all kinds of other software go there and they say it's because they like the forum. Go figure.

[Richard Tracey]

Tim - if we were to create a club to discuss and talk about the technical stuff - like DAW’s and plugins - would that be something to interest you? Like minded members and hopefully new members could join and discuss till their hearts were content.

 

I like the idea of it, I just wanted to know what you thought?

[MonoStone]

Better use of social media is a must for sure, I agree.

 

When I asked myself what I'd want, as an attention seeking artist...and forum member!

 

I decided that the main thing would be Songstuff Radio....although it would be partly video podcast... which would also end up on Youtube and that be promoted on Facebook, Twitter etc. It couldn't be half arsed though in terms of how active it is and the quality of presentation etc. The content would be - Showcasing members songs, talking about techniques etc, industry tips, new song reviews, member and (hopefully) pro artist interviews (which would also be a way for them to promote their latest releases or upcoming gigs etc), there might even be a way to make critique a part of it!

 

It's one thing to have a place to post a song, it would drive traffic from posters, but it's how the songs are presented and treated by the site that's important I think to bring useful views, and active members. And I'm sure a lot of people here feel a thrill when their work is 'broadcasted'.

 

And it's one thing to be very active on social media but ultimately it should be driving to a product or service that people want. 

 

I mean I look in here...have a moan or post a song or some comments... then I go watch Jonesy's Jukebox  But... I want to be played on it! Maybe even interviewed on it! But clearly that's not happening so... Songstuff Radio. 

 

Maybe I'll then look in on Soundcloud, but I'd rather have somebody (if I like them) presenting me with some new songs from those people.

 

And things which appeal in that way get free marketing. I mean I'm not going to post on social media to say I have a new song I'd like critiqued, or that I just posted my finished song in the Songstuff showcase.... but I'll post all over if I'm being broadcasted... and I'm guessing that with the right presentation more people will be interested to look in or listen.

 

Easier said than done maybe... but it's what would really appeal to me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MonoStone]

9 hours ago, HoboSage said:

Dek, it would only appeal to you until lyricists  and rappers demanded equal time to narrate their stuff.  <heh-heh> 

 

 

 

I don't think they'd demand to narrate them... they'd demand that the DJ play them

 

 

[Jim622]

A while back they had sub-genre for critiques. Some  got little or no attention, then I thought combining was a good idea to sort of expand our palets. Maybe with what your saying will work, but not broke down as say Rob just said. Maybe just a rock night, not classic, metal, etc.... Then country night, rap night. Then maybe break the nights into a classic rock hour, metal hour, indie, and so on.

[starise]

Richard, I think it's a good idea to expand the tech areas with articles. I'm on board to help with that. It looked like John had already headed in that direction pretty well without me though.

 

I like the idea of a podcast. It would come at an additional cost. Streaming podcasts isn't free and they take time to assemble. I know, I've done it. Someone needs to take the time to select the program material and get it out there. The server fees need paid to upload and  stream. It could be done less expensive by simply making an audio file and posting to a server in SS. No iTunes or other exposure that way. Some people use Soundcloud for podcasts. I don't think that method really gets much exposure. Bluehost offers a great podcast streaming service. But Bluehost isn't free.

 

This means- More volunteer support

                    - More money