hiatus

[Mahesh]

2 hours ago, starise said:

Some people use Soundcloud for podcasts.

That was the initial idea Tim. At least to get used to putting content together and putting it out there and figure out a format. We may have a weekly pod cast, or a question based discussion or the many other variations that we were thinking about. It might not even fulfil the definition of a podcast but we want to start it off and feed some motivation and attention into this. 

 

John and I are also looking into how the licensing and copyright would work for something like an online radio station for Songstuff and even at featuring music from our members on here in order to help with some exposure. 

 

Glad to see these discussions moving in the right direction and to see the spirits up! Let's keep at it guys. We've got something special going on here. I can feel it.

 

[john]

Hey Gang

 

It’s great to see you getting stuck in to this subject! It has cheered me up no end. I’ve deliberately stayed away to let the topic evolve relatively organically.

 

It’s also heartening to see a good number of ideas the staff have been looking at being examined, and refreshing to see a few we haven’t discussed.

 

I drafted a long post but I want to give it a little thought before I post it. It has much about strategy and direction in it... and some ideas we have been working on that pull together some of the stuff you talk about here... 

 

I can happily confirm, the site needs money lol

 

Much of what mentioned is being talked about with staff, but you have also brought up some interesting perspectives and some great ideas we had not thought of

 

The site needs a make over, some re-branding and a coordinated campaign.

 

We need help.

 

Clubs are ideal for the open mic and a member run mosh pit. Also for genre based activity. Clubs give you the ability to create a membership with it’s own forum, blog, calendar and gallery etc. There are 4 levels of visibility from fully public to private (except mods can see what is going on).

 

We have been talking of pod casts and radio station for some time. Your comments and ideas are still appreciated and useful,

 

The Showcase board is an easy one.

 

I will maybe break some of these discussions into their own topics.

 

We lack legal expertise regarding broadcasting, and selling your music in our shop (yes we have a shop being built )

 

We need funds.

 

We need staff, site volunteers, and a willingness among regulars to take part and to support initiatives.

 

We need broader community support, and a degree of trust. Songstuff has never been about selling the idea of fame, but we do want to improve knowledge, understanding, etc. Importantly, I want the site to make a big difference in helping members achieve better results. That could be regarding songwriting, production, or in finding fans, or making a living from music.

 

I think this site gives a lot for free. It, I, ask almost nothing.

 

If we work together to make Songstuff better for all of us, that is far better than us pulling against each other.

 

We should include you, our members, more in ongoing developments and ideas.

 

Yes, there is a larger vision, some of you may know some of it, if not all, and yes it could be outlined here. Many individual suggestions I think could happily be discussed here on a public board and there is no issue with everyone and anyone knowing. But the details of other aspects of discussions would definitely be better kept to a more private platform for now, even if only to stop our competitor sites getting a hold of some awesome ideas! Lol

 

Regarding the Songstuff community, I would far rather we were in it together than fostered an us and them mentality.

 

Cheers

 

John

[Richard Tracey]

I know this topic has now taken over from what it originally was. Do the members want the pertinent points moved to a new topic for discussion to make it neater, or are you happy to continue using this topic?

 

It is really good to see so many established members excited about what could happen with Songstuff going forward, but given the expense and time it would take, what would you like to see prioritised to get the ball rolling?

 

I like the idea of the Clubs as this could give an area for interaction - I was always disappointed the chat rooms never seemed to be used - is it worth keeping that facility or saying to John to remove it and it could free up server space for something else?

 

R

[Pahchisme Plaid]

I would think if someone wanted to later refer back to this new topic for reference later on, it would be easier to find under a name more appropriate for it.  Maybe move just the portions of the post that cover the new topic?

[CapM]

On 12/3/2017 at 2:04 PM, HoboSage said:

Well, maintaining a certain standard is fine.  But, that seems to equate with a non-money-making standard. 

 

P.S.  Oh. I almost forgot.  I also think it's outrageous that there's no further level after "nectar of the gods" upon reaching the 2,000 reputation. mark  OUT-f*ckIN-RAGEOUS!!!  <heh-heh>   

 

I've never noticed the "reputation" score before.  How do you have 2,035 and I only have 85??  You must earn extra points by locking your threads. 

[john]

7 minutes ago, Rob Ash said:

 

 

 

 

I threw you a point, bro. I got your back.

 

Now all you need is 1949 more points to catch Dave.

 

 

 

1948, the race is on!

 

Mwuahahaha

[starise]

Sorry this was derailed. I am partially to blame. I think it evolved into this because we were looking for reasons why so many seem to be taking time off from the site. Some of them longtime members.

 

I could only speak for myself. I'm still here. 

 

Might be a good idea to start another thread on how we think SS could be better. Just a thought.

 

I'll put up the rest of my server time this year for a podcast, but I don't think  I'll have the time to give it 100%. I willing to get it started. I'm not sure how much longer the server is paid up until and after that I can't continue to carry a venture dedicated to SS although I'll be glad to pitch in and help occasionally in the form of PP donations here and there. SS would mostly be paying those fees after that. The plus is it's all set up and ready to go . Just change a few links and the branding. FWIW I think it's under 150.00 yearly. A podcast could  be an avenue to ask for funds as well.

 

Even if you don't take me up on this offer IMHO that is a better way to go than a Soundcloud podcast. You'll be forever associated with Soundcloud, a company that might not be around or change masks a dozen times over the next 10 years. And a podcast there would get lost.

 

Having a podcast tied directly to SS is probably the best.  It isn't much more difficult than uploading to Soundcloud. Of course you could still upload to them, just not have them as your main hub of activity. 

 

Webinars might be another consideration. Dedicated software is expensive. They can be made inexpensive using Youtube Live and a decent chat program.

 

 

 

 

[john]

1 hour ago, starise said:

Sorry this was derailed. I am partially to blame. I think it evolved into this because we were looking for reasons why so many seem to be taking time off from the site. Some of them longtime members.

 

 

 

It is,nonetheless, a good conversation to have Necessary.

[john]

I'll PM you the rest

[starise]

Hey John, I seen the PM. Yes if you have specific questions regarding the other stuff I'll be happy to answer. I left those details out. Not intentional.

[TCgypsy]

I've only been back a couple of weeks (I had a hiatus forced on me) and I missed Mike leaving. The guitar subforum won't be the same without him. If you leave, Rudi, it will pretty much die so don't leave!

 

As far as the other discussion goes, there are some good ideas floating around. Just be careful not to splinter the genres too much as there is just not enough activity to support every flavor of ice cream. The other thing to consider is many people cross over and are hard to put in a category. I am not a big fan of labels, and the microtization of genres is annoying as hell.

 

As far as the song critique section goes, I personally think it all should be in one spot. That is, by far, the most active subforum, and it's in no danger right now of being so crazy that it can't support all the songs submitted. You can choose to comment or listen based on your own personal tastes. Personally, I want to hear it all, and I will critique just about any song of any style. Getting critiques from people who operate outside my own artistic tastes and influences is a good thing. It fuels my creativity.

 

If you decide to do an open mic thing or 'radio' station, I would just start with one channel, and you can grow into more channels if the activity warrants it. I may write mostly rock, but I listen to everything (jazz, rock, country, classical, you name it). I think there are a lot of members here who do the same. Having say, a metal category might actually keep me away because I don't necessarily want to listen to just metal for an hour or two. I don't know about anyone else but I would much more likely to spend more time if the styles varied rather than fit into a specific genre. If you do split things up, do it gently. For instance, rock, rap, country, hip-hop, folk, EDM - don't try and press things into tight little genres like alt-rock, metal, darkgaze, trance, outlaw country, traditional country, and so forth.

 

Anyway, just my 0.02

 

Peace,

TC

 

 

[john]

1 hour ago, HoboSage said:

I think the Songstuff home page should have a full-length photo of John wearing nothing but this:

http://www.cafepress.com/songstuffmerch.1318795940

 

No, you really don’t lol

 

It was actually created for Tom Collins on Cassie’s suggestion, iirc. During a staff meeting Tom had joked he was just out of bed and sitting naked. At least we thought it was a joke, but you can never be sure with Tommy. After talking of the site we were talking about merch and having a laugh making daft suggestions... at which point Cassie suggested Tommy cover his modesty with a thong and Tommy being Tommy, volunteered to pose for a photo for the newsletter. Yet again we thought he was joking lol

 

So come the next staff meet I showed Tommy the cafe press thong with the Songstuff logo on, and we all laughed some more. Hey at least the staff have a sense of humour!  I just never removed it from the cafe press shop LOL I forgot it was there tbh You know deep down you wanted some David.

 

The staff still refer to Tommy as “the naked mod” lol

[starise]

10 hours ago, TCgypsy said:

I've only been back a couple of weeks (I had a hiatus forced on me) and I missed Mike leaving. The guitar subforum won't be the same without him. If you leave, Rudi, it will pretty much die so don't leave!

 

As far as the other discussion goes, there are some good ideas floating around. Just be careful not to splinter the genres too much as there is just not enough activity to support every flavor of ice cream. The other thing to consider is many people cross over and are hard to put in a category. I am not a big fan of labels, and the microtization of genres is annoying as hell.

 

As far as the song critique section goes, I personally think it all should be in one spot. That is, by far, the most active subforum, and it's in no danger right now of being so crazy that it can't support all the songs submitted. You can choose to comment or listen based on your own personal tastes. Personally, I want to hear it all, and I will critique just about any song of any style. Getting critiques from people who operate outside my own artistic tastes and influences is a good thing. It fuels my creativity.

 

If you decide to do an open mic thing or 'radio' station, I would just start with one channel, and you can grow into more channels if the activity warrants it. I may write mostly rock, but I listen to everything (jazz, rock, country, classical, you name it). I think there are a lot of members here who do the same. Having say, a metal category might actually keep me away because I don't necessarily want to listen to just metal for an hour or two. I don't know about anyone else but I would much more likely to spend more time if the styles varied rather than fit into a specific genre. If you do split things up, do it gently. For instance, rock, rap, country, hip-hop, folk, EDM - don't try and press things into tight little genres like alt-rock, metal, darkgaze, trance, outlaw country, traditional country, and so forth.

 

Anyway, just my 0.02

 

Peace,

TC

 

 

 

I couldn't have said it better. 

[Jim622]

Tom - maybe we should build a wall, but to keep people in.

[Richard Tracey]

I think the mass exodus is just that we are no longer maintaining a high number of members posting or engaging on the site. It doesn’t have to mean established members leaving, but the traffic to the site isn’t what it was even a couple of months ago. It is still a decent amount compared to - probably - similar types,of music sites, but we live in a different world now and online is the new norm. People want somewhere they feel welcome and feels like home and they will keep coming back. A lot of that is the look and feel of the site, but a lot of that is down to the existing members and how they interact.

 

I know John has thought about having twitter integration as that is on the up and the traffic there is incredible if you can tap into it. It is instant and people can engage and talk a lot more freely about things. It may be that this is the logical step forward. The clubs would be good for that, people can join and engage with similar like minded people.

 

I love to talk about new gear and plugins, so does Tim, but what if we had a club and advertised it that anyone interested in that area of music could join and talk to like minded people, maybe if we had enough members there, plug-in manufacturers would look in and for a small discount, get new customers as a result. This drives the site, hopefully gets John some needed revenue and should increase the membership.

 

A lot of times change can be seen as a step into the unknown. I embrace change as it can always be used to make something better and more interesting - but only if done right.

[Just1L]

My post doesn't pertain to members leaving, as I myself have left and come back 4 or 5 times, just didn't announce it. My curiosity is about the internet radio idea. All I can say is before any leap is made be sure to do the research. Contact other internet radio sites. How are they doing financially? How do they make money? Are they in the same boat as Songstuff financially and trying to come up with ways to make revenue? Most online ventures are. I do think a bigger avenue to be heard is a really great and wonderful idea. I even talked to John about 4 years ago about having a Songstuff Radio show on our local Indie Radio Station (non-internet-based). I do think having an idea that gives the users the ability to possibly, eventually, move up the ladder a little and be heard is really good, could bring valuable users to the site and be a good step in the evolution of the site. But, I'd hate to raise the money necessary to get something off the ground, only to be in the same boat next year, or the next, struggling to maintain enough revenue to keep the site up and running. If all signs point to "Go" and it fails, that's one thing. If we knew other radio stations struggled to stay afloat and then jumped in ourselves that would be unwise. 

[Pahchisme Plaid]

Just now, Richard Tracey said:

I think the mass exodus is just that we are no longer maintaining a high number of members posting or engaging on the site. It doesn’t have to mean established members leaving, but the traffic to the site isn’t what it was even a couple of months ago. It is still a decent amount compared to - probably - similar types,of music sites, but we live in a different world now and online is the new norm. People want somewhere they feel welcome and feels like home and they will keep coming back. A lot of that is the look and feel of the site, but a lot of that is down to the existing members and how they interact.

I'm sure there are ebbs and flows to online activity.  We're nearing the Christmas season and people are likely busy, busy, busy.  I'd be curious to see if the numbers are up more in the spring and summer time.  Also, it may be that some more established patrons are moving out of the learning phase and into maintaining their own business ventures--having learned what they needed to through SS.

 

I suppose that would change their "needs/wants".  What is done here sill serves a large number of people and I think if they find success, you can expect them to move out of their need for here, except perhaps an occasional visit.  Further, those people later on may return as they move out of the crazy-times doing music business later on when things settle a bit.  We have a lot of 60+ yr-old members who've experienced the music field that have significant input into the site, don't we? Their contributions seem key to the ones learning.

 

The discussion that carries on here I also think is a draw.  Members who contribute become a sort of online family---understanding the things of music that can't necessarily be discussed with those who physically surround us.

 

I wonder what services can be bartered vs. purchased.  SS does have a considerable following and that's got to count for something in potential business dealings--even partial bartering with purchase might keep costs down--not saying sell names or anything, but for exposure purposes in advertising (maybe you already do this).  I know you're looking to bring in money and I've got my thinking cap on, but cost savings in our ventures would also help extend that income a bit further--just something to consider.  

[starise]

Rob-  ass "song writers"

 

Hmmm. Never looked at it like that. Maybe I am.

[starise]

Although I don't think I ever said "mass exodus" , I think  I can see some of the reasoning behind the statement.. 

I mean, most people who don't choose to hang around don't publicly announce it. They just go away. 

 

I can see who is online if they choose to be visible and it's usually only a handful of people. TBH I don't go looking at who is here usually. 

I might sign on and forget I'm signed on and be somewhere else lol. So that probably isn't even accurate if others do the same thing.

 

Loosing one regular is disheartening. Seeing two or three go away is like a mass exodus when we  only had under 10 frequenting the site regularly at this location.

 

While a mass exodus might not be entirely accurate. I think it's a close approximation when we account for those who come and go plus the loyal ones leaving. 

 

Tom- You know I had to play devils advocate here  I guess it all depends on how you choose to see it.

[Just1L]

1 hour ago, Pahchisme Plaid said:

Also, it may be that some more established patrons are moving out of the learning phase and into maintaining their own business ventures--having learned what they needed to through SS.

 

I suppose that would change their "needs/wants".  What is done here sill serves a large number of people and I think if they find success, you can expect them to move out of their need for here, except perhaps an occasional visit. 

 

I believe this to be true. I'm not currently aware of what songstuff members that have found success are up to … other than some of the things Mahesh has been up to. Yo, what's up Mahesh? Maybe that would be a good addition. Songstuff Success stories. People that came here to learn and have achieved some level of success. I think for new members getting started it would be pretty cool to know that there are members who came here, much like themselves, and eventually did hit on some form of success in one way or another. Even if it's the success of getting an album or EP out. Having the hope of doing something sometimes is even better than actually getting it done.