Professional Etiquette

[Prometheus]

I'm curious to find out if I am the only one here who is sick of recording industry "professionals" who wouldn't know the meaning of the word. I am not going to name any names here, but I've had dealings with several "industry professionals" who I am not impressed with in the slightest bit.

I have had to put up with broken committments, failure to keep promises and appointments and even on rare occasions I have had to deal with professionals drunk and incapable of working. Even professionals who have openly boasted about unethical and illegal behaviour as if screwing four youngsters out of their money is somehow laudable.

When an industry executive breaks a promise to me, I have to pass that broken promise to others. When one person breaks an arrangement, it makes everyone look unprofessional and incompetant. These sickening middle men may be too busy to spend more than thirty seconds, say for example, looking at a press pack, but they seem to have plenty of time to empty bottles at pointless conferences put on at other people's expense.

Even though it would be career suicide for me, I am seriously considering setting up a website where people can name and shame recording industry professionals who are downright rude, unprofessional and uncommitted to their promises... I have had to loosely involve myself in the executive side of the music industry for a few years now, and while I keep this relationship as far at arms length as possible, I have still found myself sickened, depressed and demeaned by the way the industry operates and seriously hope that the internet download trend occuring at the moment brings it crashing down around my ears.

Never before in the history of music have so many done so much for so little...

Edited September 17, 2007 by Prometheus

[Thrithwaite]

Strong words. I think you should come right out and name them! Whoever they are!. Or send the names to me and I'll do it! I hate freeloading bastards of any degree.

[Steve]

Yeh go on Prom. Name them.

[Bitstream]

Unfortunately all industries have arseholes like that.

Here's a song I found which pretty much describes these types as 'thieving bitches'

Enjoy

http://www.soundclick.com/genres/charts.cfm?genre=Metal ---> KidCrusher

[Thrithwaite]

Whoa! Heavy stuff!

[Nightwolf]

When an industry executive breaks a promise to me, I have to pass that broken promise to others. When one person breaks an arrangement, it makes everyone look unprofessional and incompetent.

good one

[FinnArild]

Three words:

Signed legal contracts

[john]

Hey

I agree Finn, though as you know contracts can be like a bucket with a hole in. Contracts require integrity to follow through.

I have to say, one of the reasons I started Songstuff was to help others recognize and avoid pitfalls. My concern about the internet is that yes artists have an apparent level of freedom, business is still only begining to sink it's claws in. Much of what is offered to artists is a con. Most large sites, including large indie sites, don't give a toss about artists, or artist rights. They care about money.

Unfortunately money attracts the worst qualities in a lot of people, and the greediest people for that matter.

Believe me, the business side of music is very busy stitching it all up.

Cheers

John

[typo]

a rant is good for you from time to time. I empathise with you.

[typo]

Three words:

Signed legal contracts

Where's the coat stand? - Mahatma Coat

[FinnArild]

I agree Finn, though as you know contracts can be like a bucket with a hole in.

No - contracts are paper with writing on them and a bucket with a hole in is a .... oh - now I see what you mean ...

[Prometheus]

No - contracts are paper with writing on them and a bucket with a hole in is a .... oh - now I see what you mean ...

And a number of these people I mention were under written contracts, which didn't stop them for a second from dereliction of duty...

[Prometheus]

On the subject of naming people, I have been giving it serious thought, and decided I'm not quite ready to do an Alan Pollock yet. A few years down the line however, when I am finished all the projects I want to finish and no longer care about being drummed out of the industry, that's another matter...

The way it works in Britain, Jim is a manager, and John runs a royalty collection agency. John is Jim's wife's best friend. Because of this you go to the union for backup and it turns out that Tracy is Jim's cousin. You then go to Susan, who is a music lawyer and it turns out that Susan is John's son in law... They really can make sure you never work with anyone "big" again...

[Thrithwaite]

it turns out that Susan is John's son in law...

I know him...

[Prometheus]

I've made a living as as an outside salesperson for over 20 years now. My job doesn't have anything at all to do with the entertainment industry. For 14 of those years, my job involved getting signed contracts with businesses, ranging from 3-5 year commitments. If I had a dollar for every sale that looked good, showed promised, was practically a done deal, we shook on or I had been assured of, I'd be rich! I'm not!!!

I can empathise with that.

I'm only sharing this with you to let you know that the problems you've had are not at all confined to the music business.

I'm sure that they are not. The way our civilisation does business in general is rather depressing.

Any sales person worth their salt will tell you that a deal isn't a deal until you have a signed contract in your hand or a check for payment. Until that happens, what you have is hope. Hope is nice, but that's all it is

I have seen fireproof written contracts been ignored, because the signatories knew only too well that it would be far too much trouble for the people at the shit end of the stick to be able to hold her to account.

If you're looking for perspective, don't fight the way it is. It's been the way it is for a long time & no one's going to change it because we're not comfortable with the way it works. I used to really let the injustice & unfairness of it all screw with me too, but once you get yourself to recognize the rules of the process for what they are, it get's a little less frustrating. Every game is easier to play when you understand the rules & this game is no different.

I'm afraid I can't do that. I have one or two unfulfilled ambitions in music which I want to complete, otherwise my crusade will look like a bad case of sour grapes, but after this is done, I will campaign against the industry and the way it is run.

You see, this goes well beyond my personal discomfort with the current model. The model is outdated, outmoded, ineffective, inefficient and in some cases downright dangerous. It has no respect, it has no integrity, and it has no honesty. It stymies developement, it leads to millions of pounds (or dollars) going to waste every year, it reserves the lions share of the money for those who output the least.

I hope this didn't come off sounding like I was talking down to you. I didn't intend it that way, but it's a sad fact that most times a verbal promise is a technique used to stall for time. Hope this helps some. Hang in there.

Not at all, I can understand what you're trying to tell me, but the real person I am angry with is myself for rolling over for these people for so long. Not any more...

[Malcious123]

I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said. Some music "professionals" aren;t even the termage. I've had the same behaviour occur with fellow musicians as well............let's just not get me to go off on that one.

And some indie labels are just as guilty.

[Prometheus]

let's just not get me to go off on that one.

Anything you want to get off your chest, you feel free to go ahead and do some thread hijacking. It'll make me feel better not being alone here...

[Nightwolf]

Anything you want to get off your chest, you feel free to go ahead and do some thread hijacking. It'll make me feel better not being alone here...

indeed rant away!!!!

[Nightwolf]

I used to really let the injustice & unfairness of it all screw with me too, but once you get yourself to recognize the rules of the process for what they are, it get's a little less frustrating. Every game is easier to play when you understand the rules & this game is no different.

So, if you're gonna get screwed and you know it, it should go down easier?

[Nightwolf]

Look. As far as I'm concerned, we're just having some conversation about the business end of the industry.

I thought that was exactly what was goin on

I've enjoyed the discussion.

I certainly didn't mean to offend you, I am enjoying this conversation and your input