Nick

Passive mode now switched back on. The world is safe Ho ho

Sing me some stuff then. Singing is playing in my book. I bet you also know that you press those white and black things on a piano and noise comes out ot the back (front and sides)

Nor do I. Mr McFeeney is a wide ranging man and some stuff I love and some stuff I don't get. Travels and James and things like that he does I just think are astounding for their simplicity. James is hard to play (I don't) but the tune is 'easy'. If you get me going on great tunes I'll never go to bed... (I just reemembered I liked his acousitc album with 'Ferry Across the Mersey') I met someone recently (very very good player - toured the states with name band plays with .... and writes but doesn't perform his own stuff) and we have made THE scariest pact that next Wednesday we are each (for the first time) going to sing our own songs in public. Scarey. Taking it seriously though. If I ever get to Vancouver play me some stuff

Then just ask him. Some years back I ran a competition on the internet on a website I had and a bloke who ran a (much better and important) website asked me how I had got the fantastic prizes. I just asked. Some years ago I came across a tune I loved by John McGann (I mention him up the thread nd I love his music) called Canyon Moonrise. Wonderful tune great chord progression. I got in touch with John (Professor from Berklee etc) and about 10 minutes before I went to the pub to play his tune he sent me an email. And I learned so much from him in a few emails and his site. I'm a lucky soul. If you think the guy would like to contribute then ask. Some people talk as proxies for people as to 'what [the expert in the field] would say' without asking them. Sometimes you can ask and they'll give you the answer from them rather than a third hand one. A friend of mine got in touch with one of the great fiddlers in the world when people were talking about what he would do or say and he has the more informed view (which for various reasons the person concerned did not want to share to the world) because he has it from the source.

It's not immediate though if you are starting I need to go back and practice and then it will become a part of me. There is a beauty in jazzy chords which I can't explain. My elder son who can read music as I can read a book (but isn't a musician - not a criticism) listened to 'After Midnight' and still plays it to this day on the piano when he comes home. And the first time he heard it he just went 'wow' - how so? Wonderful noises. If I go to the other extreme though, Lazz, Pat Metheny's 'Travels' makes me cry. So simple but ridiculously and enormously beautiful to me. You could probably teach a very new guitarist to play it (at various levels of complexity) but how could one write such an enormously simple thing that has such beauty?

Hopefully I understood what you were saying Still something of a mystery how arrangers make the particular choices to harmonise a tune and when they add some of the choices they do that lift the harmony and enrich it - practice and experience and talent I guess. And still a mystery as to how an Emb13b9 would immediately say I'm related to C - I can work it out by seeing that the flattend 9th is an F and the flattened 13th is a C but I wouldn't know instantly. If it was an Bb b13b9 it would be even harder to immediately know it's Gb (if my fingers are working right) I spent a pleasant evening after reacquainting myself with John McGann's Myspace channel and listening him play Gypsy jazz on a mandolin which I rather approve of. Thanks again. As a complete aside Zander has started at College in London doing his BMus degree so it'll be interesting to see what he picks up from there as there are some rather good teachers and masterclasses. And rather impressed that the first lecture was from the woman who does Alexander Technique training so that they look after themselves! Nick

For me personally, that is probably the best post I have ever read on this forum and has created a light bulb epiphany moment which I appreciate enormously. I do believe that everyone actually IS talking about the same thing here only I'm not sure everyone sees that they are. I have attached something a little further down this post that hopefully might help (or hinder) a little more to explain that - though I'm not sure I can terribly well. I think I might have mentioned it before and still recommend Eric Roche's 'Acoustic Guitar Bible' (beside me as I type) as the best /most useful book I have ever read on guitar playing. Perhaps part of the difference in perception is that I would guess a lot of people here come from a rock/folk/pop idiom and learned the way to play and harmonise songs based on 'the three chord trick' that was the basis of a huge swathe of music since the late 50s based on 3 or 4 piece guitar bands; Lazz comes from the songwriting tradition and school of harmony that is more based on (possibly/probably) the golden age of songwriting that owed a lot to the orchestrations of big bands and jazz as well as the crucial contribution of the craft of the words. The pop/rock view is a rather simplified and cut down version of the latter and has less harmonic diversity (and dare I say subtlety and colour) and it's focus is more based on rhythm than harmonic complexity in most (not all) cases; in fact, at it's best it's simplicity is strength. I like most of these genres and play in several to some degree. The quote from Lazz above is so clear if I have understood it. I used to look at the b9#11b5 stuff and wonder what it is all about - I knew how to make them but not what they were doing there. I used to wonder how someone knew which one was 'right'. I had never looked at it as a road map to where the current tonal centre of the melody is and that makes it so much clearer as I had missed it before. Jazz musicians tend to look much more closely at the harmonic structure of a tune than a folk or blues or pop player might and look to explore the harmonic possibilities much more than (is needed?) in a 'pop' song or folk song or similar. They also tend to improvise much closer to the melody and harmony on a bar by bar basis than pop or rock musicians - as a gross generalisation a lot of 'soloists' will play blues pentatonics over anything and wonder why it sounds like shoite (or do they...) - and explore the possibilites of exploring the harmonic possibilities of tunes without losing sight of the tune they are playing. Bizarrely I also find the same in Irish and other session music where the addition of a similar road map helps players to know what a likely harmonic structure is and hence what the chords that will work will be - or what other ones will work even though they are not the traditional 'right' way to play a tune and will add harmonic interest and variety to tunes. (Lunasa are a favourite of mine in that genre and they play around with harmonies all the time). Traditional irish musicians are not always keen to want people coming into sessions playing 'those fancy jazz chords'; mostly I would guess where people play with little to do with the melody and tune and with no feel for the balance of tension and resolution that (I think) characterises great players in the genre.. The melody is at the heart of that type of music. if you play ITM you ignore or abuse the total importance of the tune as the centre of the genre at the risk of violence... As a slight aside, that tension exists in blues and jazz and most music I love - it's also the reason how people can go far away from the 'right' harmony and tune of a piece but it still work so well. Most of the time a fundamental knowledge and interest in the tune and the possible variations is at the root. Bad improvisation, in my book, tends to apply formulae and shapes and habits rather than an exploration of the tune. For an example of an a player who spans various genres (Irish, folk, gypsy jazz, and opined to me when I was in touch with him some years back that Yorkshire is the home of the world's greatest guitarist ie in his view Alan Holdsworth!) talking about chords and improvisation have a look here - John McGann and improvisation - the rest of the site is excellent too and he's a lovely guy. The following is from Eric Roche's book and he looks at harmonising songs. He takes 'Twinkle Twinkle Little Star' as his starting point and looks at different ways to harmonise it from the way we all know to other places. The first one is one end of the spectrum of this discussion, the last one is in more in Lazz's world. They are all part of the same thing though. The juxtaposition of each of these versions though does, hopefully, help to explain the final one a bit more (the book does it MUCH fuller and much better) and Lazz's post helped me put an extra bit to my understanding jigsaw that hadn't been there before, so thank you. There is a lovely bit in his book when he points out that when you get to a 13th (the right and appropriate 13th that is, not any one) you have every note of the scale you are playing in it. Realising that and the possibilities of inversions of those changing the harmonic feel of the tune AND substitutions AND adding secondary dominant sevenths to create tension but lead you back onto the path of 'harmony that you know and have in your head' creates a myriad of harmonic possibilites to colour and add to the melodies we create. Lazz's post just made the progression from the first version to the last just a bit clearer to me. The last one DOES have an additional bar. Just for those who need resolution <PRE> TWINKLE TWINKE LITTLE STAR - arr Eric Roche 4/4 timing. Each beat has a chord name or a slash inidcating a chord repeated. Traditional/proper version C / / / |F / C / |F / C / G / C / |C / F / |C / G / C / F / |C / G / |C / / / F / C / |F / C / |G / C / Tonic root C / / / |F/C / C / |F/C / C / G/C / C / |C / F/C / |C / G/C / C / F/C / |C / G/C / |C / / / F/C / C / |F/C / C / |G/C / C / Dominant root C/G / / / |F/G / C/G / |F/G / C/G / G / C/G / |C/G / F/G / |C/G / G / C/G / F/G / |C/G / G / |C/G / / / F/G / C/G / |F/G / C/G / |G / C/G / Relative minors Am / Em / |Dm / Em / |Dm / Am / Dm / Am / |Em / Dm / |Am / Dm / Em / Dm / |Am / Dm / |Am / Em / Dm / Em / |Dm / Am / |Dm / Am / Mix of above C / Em / |F Dm Em / |Dm / C / Bdim / C / |Em / Dm / |C / G / Em / Dm / |C / G / |C / Em / F / Em / |Dm / Em / |Bdim / C / Adding sevenths and slash chords C Cmaj7 Em7 C/F |Fmaj7 Dm7/F Em7 C/E |Dm7 Bm7b5/D Cmaj7 Am7 Dm7/F Dm7/G C/G / |Em7 / Dm7 / |Cmaj7 / G7 / Em7 Am7 Dm7 G7 |Am7 / G7 / |Am7 / Em7 / Fmaj7 / Em7 / |Dm7 / Cmaj7 / |G7 / C / Adding 'add 2' and 'sus' chords C Cmaj7 Em7sus4 Em |Fadd2 /Em / |Dm / Cadd2 Amadd2 G7sus4 G7 Cadd2 / |C/E / G7/D / |C / G7sus4 / C/E / Dm7 / |C / G7 / |C Cmaj7 Em7sus4 Em Fmaj7 / Em / |Dm / Cmaj7 / |G7sus4 / Cadd2 / Adding tritone substitution and secondary dominants (each of which resolves to a chord from the key you are playing in - here C) F#m7b5 B7b9 Em11 A7 |Dm7 G9 Em7 A7 |Dm7 G7 Cmaj7 A7/C# Dm7 Db7b9 Cmaj7 / |Em7 Am7 Dm7 G7 |Cmaj7 Am7 G7sus4 G7 Em7 Eb7 Dm7 Db7 |Cmaj7 Ab7#11 G7sus4 G7 |F#m7b5 F7 Em11 Eb7 Dm7 Db7#11 Em7 A7 |Bbm7 Eb9 Am7 D9 |G7sus4 Db7b9 Fm7 / | Cmaj7 / / / </PRE>

Shame. You're a bit too far to travel I think as I'm desperately trying to find a bass position in another band and am auditioning tomorrow as I miss it lots. I've always recorded pretty much every gig I've played over the last few years with various people and find it an interesting experience - sometimes good often disappointing but I always learned something - even if it was to drop playing something or singing something. I tried recording off the PA but unless we put everything through (we rarely mic'd drums in previous band) and it was all balanced it didn't come out quite right. Having said that I would have thought it would have sounded different to that. It did sound like live sound rather than straight out of a desk or mixer which I would have thought would have been clearer and more defined.

It sounds ok but not a very clear recording. Sort of mushy sounding and the guitar sound is quite 'flangey' to my ears though that may be a choice. It's not as clear and punchy as it might be. On a second listen I realise it may because there is very little bass in there or 'bottom' to the sound. It's nicely performed, the band is together and the singing is in tune which is always a bonus. You sound disappointed - why? How was it recorded - not off the desk I presume? It sounds like what I get if I stick my Zoom recorder in the audience at a live gig. I have recorded quite a lot of gigs I have played at like that and then do a bit of processing with a bit of parametric EQ at home to remove some of the 'mushiness'.

Reaper you can use for free and it's an excellent piece of software with good manual. Quite a lot to learn but once you get the hang of it you can do lots with it

I seem to remember that Lazz started a thread some time ago about the same book. I once sent a link to the book to a person I was playing with in a band and they had not the slightest clue what it was about nor why on earth I had sent it to him. I only read the first chapter is the rest as good?

One of the things that is particularly good at cocking up sound on my computer is anti-virus. I have AVG9 free version and it has an indexing component that works in the background and hogs processor power - so I turn it off when doing music. I use an uncrippled shareware program called Reaper (which costs $50 if you are honest - which I am!) and get reasonable results when I've used it. Most of the issues sound wise were improved by a switch to ASIO drivers, fiddling with the buffer settings and truning off Anti virus when using it. I only know what I have leanred myself from reading the manual so there are many people who know hugely more than me but I have managed to record stuff that sounds ok to me for demo purposes or just to send to friends or for practice. I would guess that ANY software product will yield results as long as you are prepared to invest the time in finding something out about how they work. Here's a couple of things recorded at home with a very basic soundcard, a basic microphone and a set up that cost very little. The first is something I recorded with Alistair who uses this forum some while ago and a recording of a friend who I played with a while back - Inescapable Truth Lakes of Ponchartrain The first one was played on local radio when Alistair sent it in and appeared just after the Arctic Monkeys and didn't sound too bad. Most of the comment on the radio was based around whether the drums were real or programmed (which they are) rather than how basic the recording was so I take that as a compliment. Outside of the computer which I owned anyway and the Reaper software (which you can try for free) my set up cost less than £20.

Did you check out the Ibanez dealer site which tells you where they are? Ibanez dealers. There are a lot of Ibanez dealers in Maryland! Personally I wouldn't buy a guitar that I hadn't tried however beautiful it looks but then I'm not you

My son has two Ibanez's and they are nice guitars - one a JEM7WH and the other a 7 string. Both are solid well made and sound good. If the RG350 is built to a similar standard for it's price then it's probably fine. The one thing I'd suggest though is that you try it out before buying. I went off looking for a replacement acoustic some years ago and bought the guitar that felt right in my hands. I discarded a lot of guitars that I thought I might like until I tried them. There's a discussion on another forum I use which has some interesting comments on "Help buying a guitar" and if you look back through the forum here there are various threads about people buying guitars that have some useful info - eg this thread which is about acoustics but the same principles apply I reckon. A thought strikes me though. There is not a lot that can go wrong with an electric guitar that can't be mended for a small amount of cash. Why not nip the Squier strat into a local shop and get it working? It's probably something like a joint has come unsoldered or the jack socket needs a fix. You then have a perfectly adequate electric to get going on. I have a Squier that I bought some years back and play occasionally. It has a lovely action and sounds fine - in fact you can see it in action here on Youtube with my son playing it some years ago before he bought his own guitars.

First observation: It's worth looking after your instruments. All mine work fine and they are in some cases 25 years older than your oldest one. What do you want to do other than 'upgrade'? What is it you are trying to achieve? What does your current set up not do? What can you do with your current set up and what can't you- I often think it's easier if someone posts an example of something concrete. My idea of 'better' may be much less than you are doing already.

Onto Aja now... And Do it Again next. That takes me back to University days and discos.

I'll have to go listen. I've just watched videos of them playing FM (love that track and so beautifully produced on the original album - I could listen to the way the strings come in again and again), Reeling in The Years, Don't Take Me Alive, Bodhisattva and Deacon Blue). Pure joy. Startlingly good musicians in those bands. Made my evening

Excellent - wasn't that a Gadd2 chord? Zander's joined my new band and we have always wanted to play some Steely Dan so it's been useful already. Highest on the list is 'Don't Take Me Alive'. I found Karakiriad disappointing though I really wanted to like it and preferred 11 Ttacks of Whack by the other half that was about the same time I think.

By contrast what would Lady Gaga have been paid as a royalty for having Poker Face played once on Radio One on the Chris Moyles show with his weekly audience of about 7m+ One seems ok and the other seems terrible somehow but is the net effect the same? David Byrne seems to have a slightly similar view of the contradiction that terrestrial radio is seen as promotional when web radio isn't in an article from some years ago - David Byrne journal

I scanned through the thread and feel your pain. Technology doesn't help until you know what you want to do. Sing in your head. Record onto a cassette player or anything. There are no technological solutions. Tomorrow may invent something that makes everything you/we are looking at irrelevant. BUT People will still write fantastic tunes in whatever genre they choose and still astound people with the beauty of what they write. And people will go "but how come noone wrote that before it's so obvious...." Probably why people haven't stopped creating music and why it's always worth trying. Nothin to do with technology - that's just a way of getting your ideas somewhere

The answer is in the question. Come back and talk- it's hard to start a discussion here. It would be good to do that

And Neil Young is an individual electric guitarist that you can spot in seconds. Not my cuppa but sweet that people rave about it I remember at A level time answering an interesting question which I remember to this day "Style begins where talent ends". Discuss. Great question.

Which bit of Tom Waits is good and which bit bad? Is there a middle for him that's ok (or not) Are you suggesting that 1 He is a bad singer 2 he sings out of tune or time or something bad 3 That swordfishtrombones is either better or worse than san diego serenade 4 he's a bad performer 5 that he can't sing in many voices 6 that... He has the sweetest voice as well as the roughest

I'm toying with the idea of taking a keyboard to gigs in the future and am looking for some suggestions. I am not a keyboard player so it would be just for some basic stuff (think Linda McCartney and Wings perhaps!) a little like examples I have put up in the past when I played with Alistair and some stuff with my latest band where I have added some things afterwards. There is a person selling a 1970s Hammond organ at the moment locally for £75 but I would guess that it is going to be totally impractical as it is probably huge and heavy for me to cart about with all the other stuff. So what I am after are some suggestions of what would sound ok through a PA or amp and is going to be portable and relatively small with the ability to make a decent organ sound and probably a piano sound as well. For example is something like this - Casio - completely inappropriate? It's cheap and simple but would sound like a pile of poo?

Whether it's right or wrong this is what I understood by the various different chords C9 - C E G Bb D with the 7th being crucial C add 9 - C E G C D with the D falling above the octave of the root rather than C add 2 - C D E G C with the D falling below the octave of the root No hint of the 7th and no way your ears could confuse the two with the C9 because of the distinctiveness of the Bb C sus 4 - C F G C with no third C sus 2 - C D G C with no third Imagine is a good example of a C add 9 (C add 9 - C - C add 9 - C - Cmaj7 - Fmaj7) Play it as it is wrote and listen and then substitute a C9 and play it again. Then come back and say they are the same. Roxanne by the Police is a good example (to my ears) of interesting use of sus chords - especially that the Gsus4 DOESN'T resolve because it doesn't have to. As a complete aside but slightly relevant... I played 'Crazy' by Gnarls Barkley recently a few times which ends on a Vsus4. The rest of the band desperately wanted to resolve it but as the last word of the song is 'possibly' the sus chord seemed so much better to finish on - a little musical joke. It would end with the singer improvising over the unresolved chord dying away... but never once managing to leave it unresolved Nearly changed by name to Gnick as well but thought it a little silly Badge is another nice example but this time ending on a Bm add9 - rather than a Bm9 Little Wing Hendrix slides using Gadd9 --> Aadd9 --> Gadd9 --> Fadd9 - very distinctive sound Where would Steely Dan have been without the add2 or add9 chord curiously christened a 'mu' chord here and there and even has its own wikipedia page - Mu chord article - Fagen and Becker But you knew that already.