Which Way Do You Prefer?

[AnthonyCeseri]

When writing a song, do you prefer writing a song with a chorus, (like an ABABCB format) or one without a chorus that uses a refrain (like an AABA song)? 

 

I find myself typically writing choruses, but I think it's good to change things up when you write. Helps you grow as a writer

[Rudi]

Pretty much like HoboSage.

 

Music happens.

My last song had no chorus at all.

In fact, it did not even occur to me to add a chorus.

 

Thats how much say I get in the process.

[AnthonyCeseri]

I don't write a song with any format consciously in mind.  In fact, I don't really "write" at all.  The music sets the structure for my songs, and that comes about by my hands exploring a guitar and me pretty much staying out of their way.

 

Are these instrumentals or songs with words? 

Pretty much like HoboSage.

 

Music happens.

My last song had no chorus at all.

In fact, it did not even occur to me to add a chorus.

 

Thats how much say I get in the process.

 

Interesting... Were you using a refrain, then? 

[Rudi]

No refrain either. Pretty dull huh?

[AnthonyCeseri]

My favorite form is AABA-extended.  It is old-fashioned now.  Elvis and The Beatles used it a lot. 

 

Yeah, definitely... it is a good one though!

[tomcollins]

for me , the song / lyrics , comes to build it's self , and takes on the form as it is writing , like hobo , it starts with a word ,phrase whatever , a melody pops in my head and let the pen do what it does best , write , not think , and what it is , it is, bit that's just me , I write in pure emotion , as I am inspired and let that take me where it wants to go , know many writers ,put down their thoughts think of a "format" and then start to write , but really it is what ever works for the writer

[AnthonyCeseri]

for me , the song / lyrics , comes to build it's self , and takes on the form as it is writing , like hobo , it starts with a word ,phrase whatever , a melody pops in my head and let the pen do what it does best , write , not think , and what it is , it is, bit that's just me , I write in pure emotion , as I am inspired and let that take me where it wants to go , know many writers ,put down their thoughts think of a "format" and then start to write , but really it is what ever works for the writer

 

What about crafting your emotions into a form, after they originally come from you? 

[chased]

I prefer form too, but I love those guys who can pull off a great song that is totally original and avoids a recognisable structure.

 

I tend to give myself a musical or structural challenge to work towards, like a new structure or a song with all 7th chords or a borrowed "feel" or rhythm, and sticking to it no matter what comes. That keeps me from straying too much and becoming lost in too many new ideas. Works for me.

[dan200]

I think it is very difficult for a singer or musician to write his songs by own. But singers can write his songs by himself.

[Kel]

I am yet to meet an Australian older than 25 who does not regard the Cold Chisel song, Khe Sahn one of the classics of Australian rock. (APRA rates it as #8!)

 

This song has a wacko structure, that conforms to no known set of rules or guidelines and yet remains engaging and powerful. Written by Cold Chisel's Don Walker, it is still regularly played on Australian radio, though first released in 1978.

 

From wikipedia:

 

"Don Walker later described it as the type of song that would be written by an author who had yet to learn the established forms of songwriting. "It doesn't follow any of those rules, it has no chorus. The punchline of it is a line out of a verse, it had nothing to do with the title."

 

But it works!

 

 

Fo non-Aussies, Cold Chisel are arguably one of the best rock acts to come from Australia, though they haven't achieved the same level of international fame as other acts such as INXS (who I could never stand, personally!) and AC/DC. (It might be said that most Australians >25 regard the Bon Scott years (pre 1980) as the Golden Years of AC/DC, (there was even a move released about a tribute band's pilgrimage to his grave site!) though it was Brian Johnston's lead vocals that totally changed the sound of the band and took them to the world. Go figure!) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_Chisel

 

Sorry for the history and musica australiana lessons.

[Guest]

I am yet to meet an Australian older than 25 who does not regard the Cold Chisel song, Khe Sahn one of the classics of Australian rock. (APRA rates it as #8!)

 

This song has a wacko structure, that conforms to no known set of rules or guidelines and yet remains engaging and powerful. Written by Cold Chisel's Don Walker, it is still regularly played on Australian radio, though first released in 1978.

 

From wikipedia:

 

"Don Walker later described it as the type of song that would be written by an author who had yet to learn the established forms of songwriting. "It doesn't follow any of those rules, it has no chorus. The punchline of it is a line out of a verse, it had nothing to do with the title."

 

But it works!

 

Kel... I gave Khe Sahn a listen. Cool tune... I agree that it is engaging, powerful, and I'm not surprised that it's considered a classic but... Wacky? Conforming to "no known song structure"?

 

I found the song instantly familiar, with very common chord movement. The form is simply Intro ABABABBsABB End. (I wouldn't even call it AB, since the B is really just an altered A, which I would call A2, making it: Intro A A2 A A2 A A2 A2instru A A2 repeat last A2 .) I hear Rod Stewart all over it; Van Morrison, Elton John, and others.

 

There is repetition, rhyme, a musical interlude, song structure... Sure, there's no chorus or hook line, but it's far from avant garde. Funny that the songwriter seems to think it is... "Doesn't follow any of those rules"? It follows a lot of 'em! "Nothing to do with the title"? Huh? There's a slew of Vietnam/military references!

 

If the comparison is to the latest crop of people from one of the Idol shows or The Voice then, sure, it's not following those formulae, but it's just not novel.

 

Cool song, though. Absolutely...

[Kel]

The form is simply Intro ABABABBsABB End. (I wouldn't even call it AB, since the B is really just an altered A, which I would call A2, making it: Intro A A2 A A2 A A2 A2instru A A2 repeat last A2 .)

 

As I said, wacko!

 

Not Avant Garde, wacko!

 

Funnily enough, in 1994 (from memory) it won a 2DAY FM (Sydney radio) radio poll for the best song of the 80's! And it was released in 78! Go figure.

 

Cheers,

Kel

[Guest]

You consider either ABAB or AAA song structure "wacko"? OK... 

 

Give Rod Stewart's "Maggie May" a listen. Also, Rod's "Young Turks". The latter has a hook line but... Neither lyric contains its title anywhere, if memory serves. "Maggie" has no sung hook. And they're but two examples; Bob Dylan alone has many more.

 

Peace 

[Kel]

No, I considered all the "I wouldn't even call it AB, since the B is really just an altered A, which I would call A2, making it: Intro A A2 A A2 A A2 A2instru A A2 repeat last A2..." making it wacko. When you need to go into details about it, it is not "usual". Perhaps "wacko" was a little strong, but lets agree it's a cool song and rock on.

Peace in spades!

And I was a fan when those songs were Top 40!

Edited June 3, 2013 by Kel

[Guest]

...lets agree it's a cool song and rock on.

 

Agreed. 

[Anxious Optimist]

I was reading this article about the 7 Basic Rhyme Schemes

 

I knew most of them but since I tend to stick to 4 bar choruses/hooks, I've been using AXAA with results I've liked more than some of the more common ones.