Last time in a studio

[rdb90]

Good luck Al, and I am looking forward to hearing what you come out with. I would like to be able to give you some tips, but I can't...( ) I am 15 from a small town in Newfoundland, Canada and I have never been in a studio (but I don't really expect to yet, or maybe ever... ). I don't even have anything on my computer to record with. I used to have Cakewalk, but I had to get my computer wiped out, and I couldn't find it after...BOO...anywayz..I got sidetracked. Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

Later

[Alistair]

I feel the weight of expectation on my shoulders! I hope I won't disappoint.

[rdb90]

Don't worry, It will probably be great!

Keyword = probably...lol...but seriously though, it will be amazing

[Alistair]

Don't worry, It will probably be great!

Keyword = probably...lol...but seriously though, it will be amazing

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the support! 14 August here I come!

[rdb90]

No prob

later

[FinnArild]

It was the engineer's suggestion! And it's what I am used to, as is my bass player.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, whatever rocks your boat ... If that's the way that works, that's the way that works.

[FinnArild]

Hey Finn.

I see you have withdrawn from the computer industry and leapt full-time into music.....

Sincere good wishes and good luck with it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks ...

I'm making a leap, but not without a safety-net. I take 4 months leave of absence first and see how things go ...

[Nightwolf]

Tip: HAVE FUN and the Music will follow

[BongStuff]

I was last in BBC Scotland's "Studio One" on Queen Margaret Drive in Glasgow after being invited to a "screening" of a Rangers vs. Celtic football ( soccer ) game.

I sneaked a peek after asking very politely.

Wierd place. Classic kit like racks of Revox reel-to-reels and an EMS VCS3 synth sitting beside, yes, a Mac and a huge desk which I think was a Neve.

Other than that, most non-rock musos can get away without pro studios nowadays. But I do think there's something quite inspiring about going out to a place dedicated to recording music.

BS

[Alistair]

I meant I will do the guitar track first, then the bass player will do his part straight after.

The rationale is that I will play better if I am not singing at the same time and vice versa.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ha, ha! Well, yesterday was the day and we had a hoot!

We walked out with two finished tracks that we are pretty pleased with, 'The Bubble Has Burst' and 'Struck Twice By Lightning'.

We recorded the bass and rhythm guitar together, live, (you were right, Finn!)and then did all the vocals, then the lead acoustic guitar.

We tried to put a drum track on the first song but I just couldn't keep time - too much to learn in too short a time, I'm not used to it - and my guitar sounded like sh*t through the cans, even though it sounded good to everyone else. So we dropped that idea and I manged to keep time without it. It took an hour and a half to do the guitars but I did the vocals first take so that speeded things up a bit (we only had 4 hours but took 5 at no extra charge)

On the second song, Struck Twice, the engineer made some useful suggestions for the harmony tracks,so you get a choir in the rising chorus which sounds good. But he also got me to do a spoken word piece which to my ears sounded like Telly Savalas and I just HATED it. So that went.

What was wonderful was that Nick's 13 year old son Zander played a blinding lead acoustic guitar piece on Bubble which he got 2 days notice to do and he nailed it in two takes.

So we're pretty happy. Sure, there are places where we could have done better but in the time we had I'm thrilled.

We've put the finished articles up for review. If you listened to the previous home-recorded versions you'll have a nice contrast.

[Steve]

Can't wait! What was the name of the studio? Did you manage to arrange an interview with the engineer? Have they recorded any famous artistes? Or were you selfishly just thinking of your own tracks?

[Alistair]

Can't wait! What was the name of the studio? Did you manage to arrange an interview with the engineer? Have they recorded any famous artistes? Or were you selfishly just thinking of your own tracks?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It was called The Old Dairy Studio in York, run by Cube Media, but until recently was owned by York's own minor celebrities Shed Seven.

I certainly was selflishly thinking of my own tracks but Lee Hutchinson, the engineer would, I'm pretty certain be willing to do an interview, though I may not be the best person to think up the questions.

"Gosh, Lee, what a lot of buttons! What do they all do?"

[Prometheus]

Excellent! I look forward to hearing the tracks! How many do you plan to do?

So, how about some studios tips for Alistair?

Serious Studio Tip, if you're not used to playing with click tracks, practice it a bit with the PC, because most studio engineers (myself included) will try to push you into using one since it makes the product feel more professional and makes the editing and setting up of compressor releases and time domain effects much easier...

Apart from that, just remember that it's a fraught environment and that tempers get frayed, so just try to hang loose and stay as relaxed as possible... If you've taken a few takes on something and you're starting to feel uptight and that you're losing focus, take 5 minutes to go outside and breathe some air that hasn't been completely exorcised of oxygen...

[Nightwolf]

Serious Studio Tip, if you're not used to playing with click tracks, practice it a bit with the PC, because most studio engineers (myself included) will try to push you into using one since it makes the product feel more professional and makes the editing and setting up of compressor releases and time domain effects much easier...

Apart from that, just remember that it's a fraught environment and that tempers get frayed, so just try to hang loose and stay as relaxed as possible... If you've taken a few takes on something and you're starting to feel uptight and that you're losing focus, take 5 minutes to go outside and breathe some air that hasn't been completely exorcised of oxygen...

Good tips there frustration can kill focus

[Lazz]

most studio engineers will try to push you into using one since it makes the product feel more professional and makes the editing and setting up of compressor releases and time domain effects much easier...

..... it's a fraught environment

Nobody asked my opinion but I feel obliged to offer an alternative point of view since these sort of click-track notions are pretty much alien to my own experience. I suppose their use is legitimate and acceptable as a problem-solution for practical or logistical purposes in terms of certain styles of recording that build a song out of individual overlays and sequences, but if a studio engineer tried to push me into using one I couldn't help but conclude he was not the guy I needed. Maybe I'm out on another limb here, but I've never knowingly come across an engineer of this particular persuasion.

There's only one time I ever personally tried to make use of click. It was to enable a graceful segue on disc between tracks that had been scheduled for recording on different days, one of which was to be released as s single. The rented producer was an old-school guy, however, who refused to countenance it, and to this day I regret not beating him down and having the benefit of the tool to achieve that goal. And it would have worked very well as a solution for that particular problem - but only really as a secure count-in for segueing the stitched-on track.

I hesitate to say this but, unless there is a clear practical purpose of this nature, the only time an engineer would have to insist on a click-track to make the product feel more professional is when he or she is dealing with amateurs. (Ouch! - I said it.) One other large issue with using a click is that different players will hear/feel it most effectively in different ways. Try it and see. Do you groove along with it better happening on the 2 & 4, or on the 3, or on any of the other permutations? Practice and find out. In the few sessions I have witnessed where logistics have required a click and where more than one guy had to come in at the same time to record complex parts with a heavy reading focus, then they had to be fed headphone mixes containing their own click preferences because of this factor. Basically, what a click or metronome is for is practice. In an actual playing or recording situation, unless there it has clear practical purpose, it's always preferable you should be listening to the other players and not to a machine.

Speaking briefly of metronomic practice, whenever I visit my partner on the nearby campus where he does some teaching, it's always easy to spot his students. They are the ones who are clicking their way rhythmically, walking around with metronomes in their pockets. Getting the beat into their movement and subliminally into the soul. It seems to work, too.

Anyway... the groove and having a good time is what it's about - so if you do ever find yourself recording in a fraught environment where tempers are becoming frayed then maybe you should just reconsider whether you're in the right place with the right guys.

[Prometheus]

Anyway... the groove and having a good time is what it's about - so if you do ever find yourself recording in a fraught environment where tempers are becoming frayed then maybe you should just reconsider whether you're in the right place with the right guys.

I think that's a little bit harsh... If recording broadcast quality music in a studio environment was easy, then surely everyone would be doing it... You're never going to find an engineer whose opinions do not differ from yours in any way shape or form, unless of course he is a yes man who is too scared or inexperienced to speak up...

Quite honestly, I feel far more worried working with people who don't question me and don't get frayed nerves, since this points out they either have no self belief, no passion for what they are doing or they are yes men...

In this day and age of over produced multitrack recordings, you are not going to hear succesful recordings that are not done to click tracks, basically ever, unless you are a big Bob Dylan fan...

One more thing... A lot of people will tell you that you can't Groove to a click track... Bollocks! Listen to Groove Armada - At The River English Riviera Remix... That Grooves and it was sure as hell created to a click track...

I hesitate to say this but, unless there is a clear practical purpose of this nature, the only time an engineer would have to insist on a click-track to make the product feel more professional is when he or she is dealing with amateurs.

With respect, riddle me this... How are you going to time the release on a delay, compressor or reverb to a reasonable degree of accuracy on a recording not done to a click?

Unless you use a metronome, it can't be done... There's nothing digital or tempo based about the brain of your average (or even genius) musician, and even using tap delays, the feat of riding the timing is going to be prodigious, and your recording is going to be imperfect...

Edited September 16, 2005 by Prometheus

[Alistair]

With respect, riddle me this... How are you going to time the release on a delay, compressor or reverb to a reasonable degree of accuracy on a recording not done to a click?

Unless you use a metronome, it can't be done... There's nothing digital or tempo based about the brain of your average (or even genius) musician, and even using tap delays, the feat of riding the timing is going to be prodigious, and your recording is going to be imperfect...

Hmmm...interesting debate, but the advice to me on the click track was a little after the fact, seeing as my studio session was on 14 August

[Prometheus]

Hmmm...interesting debate, but the advice to me on the click track was a little after the fact, seeing as my studio session was on 14 August

Ah! Well, re-reading the previous posts it seems to have went well, so all the best with the demo, wherever you plan to go with it...

[Alistair]

Sorry, I sounded churlish, it's good advice all the same - thanks

[Lazz]

Sorry, I sounded churlish,

I don't think you sounded churlish, Alistair.

I think I may have done though.

Edited September 16, 2005 by Lazz