Starting Singing

[thelevellers]

hey people, I really wanna be able to at least keep in tune for singing along with my guitar, not bothered about being amazing (obviously I'd LOVE to sound like Mark Lanegan, but as I don't intend on smoking, drinking copious amounts of whisky or doing Meth(!) I think I'll live not sounding like that...) but would just love to be able to sing in a group of people with out being crap!

Any tips on how to get into it? Should I find a teacher? Practice with my guitar/without? Actually scrap the without, I wouldn't pratice without cause hten my flatmates might actually hear me! Shy bastard that I am... :s

So yeah, any tips at all would be hugely welcome

Rohan

[typo]

a teacher isn't necessary. it's important to practice singing on it's own, i.e. you not playing anything. there are some basic exercises you can use to warm up your voice (scales etc), and you should always warm up before singing songs etc.

other than that, take care of your chords. don't sing when you have been drinking or smoking (if you can). try lots of styles, and lastly, plan your breathing in your songs. the biggest cause of problems for singers is breath control

[TimmyMayes]

I found this set of warmup videos for singing that have helped me alot. You may know all this I am a complete beginner and didn't know any of this.

Part 2

Part 4

Cheers,

Timothy

[Nightwolf]

I don't intend on smoking, drinking copious amounts of whisky or doing Meth(!)

Well, there goes all my advice

[Nick]

A few thoughts from someone who came very late to singing (just under 50 years) and now enjoys it and will sing in front of people with no real concern:

Start by singing easy and straightforward songs that you know. Then you can concentrate on trying to make a decent and accurate sound rather than struggling with the words and tune.

Record your voice and get used to hearing it. If you are not used to hearing it it will probably take some getting used to but it is a very good objective way to get to know what it can do well at this stage and what it struggles with. The feedback you get from listening to yourself is incredibly useful. The book I mention further down also recommends that you record yourself so that you can see change over time.

Sing in the car. I recorded the guitar accompaniment to 15 songs I wanted to sing onto a CD and practice them as I drive to work. No problem with others hearing you if you are bothered about that.

I came across a book in the library with CD which I found useful which is called Roger Love - Set Your Voice Free. It's about £6 or £7 delivered and I found it very helpful and I think it made a difference to my singing.

I'm currently encouraging my son to sing more (he's 15 and no mean guitarist) because it broadens your musical options. He's gone this year from not singing at all in public (he has a nice voice and a good ear but was typically teenage shy of exposing his voice to the world) to singing backing vocals live in front of an audience in our band on some songs and harmony lead vocals in another band he plays in.

Once you have the confidence to do it it gets easier.

We are lucky in that we run a local weekly music gathering in a pub near here and it's an opportunity for people to sing in a very unthreatening and supportive environment. If you can find something similar it may help. There is usually a range of abilities but singers are generally very encouraging to new singers as they know how hard it is to start. A quick search on the web suggest lots of places round Cardiff which might be suitable. There is a guy who came off and on for perhaps a year plus before working up to singing and now he always will when he comes.

Perhaps the best thing that happened to me was to go to a club a couple of years ago where EVERYTHING went wrong. Through a combination of my nerves, surfeit of alcohol (big error) and acute self consciousness I forgot the words, forgot how to play the guitar and finally dried up and gave up in acute embarrassment. The people were very nice about it but I felt awful about it. The next day though I realised in the scale of things it wasn't too serious and that I had survived 'the worst that could happen' and that things could only get better. I am now always welcome back to that club if I visit and asked to sing.

Having the nerve to just do it is the probably the biggest hurde. Once you've broken that it gets easier.

Edited December 24, 2007 by Nick

[Nightwolf]

Good stuff there Nick!

The hardest part is JUST DO IT. Have fun, but treat it as work; "I will practice for X time every day", in the car is a good one for sure. One of the best singers I do had this advice: "Sing everywhere, all the time", sure, easy for her to say, she sounded wonderful everywhere, all the time. Once you get your confidence and feel good about your voice, spread your wings.

then as Nick suggests go out, get drunk and forget the songs (I'm kidding, he didn't say that) , but having a crap gig is bound to happen, treat it as, "well got that out of the way anyway", and hit it again!

[Nick]

A couple more thoughts and explanations based on my own experiences of starting to learn to sing -

I used to record our weekly gathering in the pub and sometimes stuff at home just to see how it sounded. I still do - I have a tape of a gig that we did on Friday where I played with a couple of bands and I find it invaluable - though not always easy listening - to improve my playing and to try to eradicate some of the things that don't work. My wife is downstairs at the moment listening to two of the songs that she sang and brushing up on the harmonies where they weren't 100% for our next gig on Wednesday. She now finds it a really good aid where she used to listen before and feel like giving up! Accept that it probably won't be perfect - why should it be as you probably practice singing a tiny percentage of the time you practice the main instrument you play - but pick up on the things that are GOOD and build on them as well as the things that aren't; try not to listen as a whole (unless you are happy with it of course in which case where's the problem ?) and judge it as such ("Oh god it's all rubbish... <gloom>" ) but break it down into good bits and bad bits and work on altering or getting round the less good bits.

On the positive side I can remember listening to a tape of me singing "The Water is Wide" and there was a line in that that I heard and my ears pricked up and I thought "that sounds good - if I sung ALL the song like that it would be ok" and it does wonders for your confidence to know that you can make a noise that is pleasant to the ear.

The other thing about recording your voice is that it sounds remarkably different than it does to you. I have quite a deep voice and used to sing with the chest part of my voice mostly. Before hearing it recorded I THOUGHT that the part of my voice that was higher sounded 'light' and weedy and thin and so I would drop an octave on songs and sing in my comfortable chest voice. When I heard my voice recorded I was really surprised that the upper bit of my voice had a much nicer quality and depth than I thought and most of what I sing I now do in that voice rather than what I used to use.

An example - Hark the Herald Angels sing is normally sung in G so that there is an E on the Hark of 'Hark the Herald Angels sing' bit. I have a choice of octaves to sing it in I can either sing it all in the lower part of my voice or sing it an octave higher (better!), or do what I used to do which was to sing it in a mixture of both and drop an octave as it came into the higher bit of my voice which you can get away with carol singing but sounds weird solo unless you are aiming for a yodelling effect. It was only when I realised that what I heard when I sang as I moved higher was much different to me than it was to those listening. Over the last year or two the useable top end of my voice has extended and become stronger and I tend to pitch songs to use a higher range than I used to. My voice goes from a D through just under two and a half octaves to G and whereas any singing that I used to do took place mostly in the lower octave and a half before, most of the things I sing I now choose to pitch in that higher octave.

Learn to be a reasonable critic by setting reasonable comparisons and judge yourself accordingly not by Whitney Houston or Ella Fitzgerald standards.

Oh and remember to breathe - I often forget and it makes my pitch wander all over the place especially at the end of lines unless I remember.

And have fun. Now I enjoy singing there is something of a fervour to encourage others who are keen to sing but scared of trying to just go through that barrier and try it. I am very appreciative of the bunch of friends locally and people from elsewhere (eg Hull and Beverley) who have encouraged me when I was tentatively starting.

[Carnival]

I've never sung in front of others in my life. No confidence. Sometimes people have made fun of me for being off-key in a group. I have a hearing loss which makes it worse. But I want to sing.

I bought a little recording setup for my PC (border-line studio quality mic and pre-amp) and started singing. I amplified the sound and used headphones as a monitor. I was amazed at how much better I could sing when the volume was up, and found that the reason I was off-key was because I couldn't really hear my voice that well before. I found that my voice is pretty smooth, and I can carry a tune, but I don't have much skill or range. I also found out that I really have to sing out, or my voice sounds anemic - that may be partly a skill issue, not sure.

Anyways, my point is that listening to your own voice and trying diffferent things clears up a lot of the mystery, and you begin to associate different techniques with different results. Once you do this, you can make some progress. I'm making some, but still don't have much confidence singing in front of others.

From another perspective, my daughter began working on her voice when she was about 10 years old. She would sit in the basement and wail for hours on end. Her voice wan't that good, and frankly, some of her song choices had such disonant melodies that I couldn't tell whether she was hitting the notes or not. But now she is 13, and I'm pretty impressed by what the kid has accomplished. She was recruited into her school's 'select choir', which is well known in the area, and does college level vocal arrangements. But the real point is that she developed her voice with no real vocal instruction. Now she is at the point where a little instructin is making a big difference.

[thelevellers]

Wow! thanks for the tips guys

Especially nick for the in depth and extended stuff

I wish I could drive and had a car really, cause I don;t have the confidence to start practicing in my room at the mo, as theres about 5 rooms and a busy walkway right next to me, and a nice quiet isolated car would be perfect to practice in...

I did actually have a bit of a sing over the holiday and actually put a bit of oomph in and instantly noticed the improvement that comes with really trying, rather than timidly and tentatively stretching for the right notes... In fact I tried singing one of my own songs to the melody I had in my head and almost instantaneously changed it to something better! So I'm even more keen to sort it out, so maybe I'll start trying more...

Anyway, I suspect that you'll know as soon as I'm more confident as I'll prob try recording one of my songs properly with vocals

Thanks again

Rohan

[john]

Hey Rohan

A big part of becoming a singer is getting over selfconsciousness. The sooner your friends get used to you singing, the sooner they will get used to you doing it. You don't need to make it too obvious to start with. Get used to walking around singing half-heartedly if it makes it easier. You know, little snippets as you are making food, wandering around the flat, hell even walking down the street.

That way as you start to sing a bit more seriously they don't make a big thing of it.

Top tips on sneakily becoming a singer

Cheers

John

[KennyChaffin]

I need to work on leaning to sing a bit myself so I appreciate all the tips as well!

Thanks!

KAC

[Nick]

>>A big part of becoming a singer is getting over selfconsciousness. The sooner your friends get used to you singing, the sooner they will get used to you doing it.

Agree with that totally. People that we know know that we sing so it's quite easy to do it. We had a couple of examples over Xmas. We had a party at home and had a sing and play there but also went to a party with some people that we know a little through my son being at school with their daughter (who plays the fiddle and writes songs and performs).

At a certain point in the party we were asked to sing some songs and play some music which we did. My wife and I felt that it's actually more difficult sitting in a room with a bunch of semi strangers singing than 'performing' in a pub but once we got started it's no hassle and enjoyable and we had a pleasant hour singing and playing. And the reaction you often get is "I wish I had the confidence to do that..." and the answer is that you have if you choose to. It's only been in about the last year that I feel confident enough to do it but having got over that hump it becomes easier

[musicthom]

>>A big part of becoming a singer is getting over selfconsciousness. The sooner your friends get used to you singing, the sooner they will get used to you doing it.

Agree with that totally. People that we know know that we sing so it's quite easy to do it. We had a couple of examples over Xmas. We had a party at home and had a sing and play there but also went to a party with some people that we know a little through my son being at school with their daughter (who plays the fiddle and writes songs and performs).

At a certain point in the party we were asked to sing some songs and play some music which we did. My wife and I felt that it's actually more difficult sitting in a room with a bunch of semi strangers singing than 'performing' in a pub but once we got started it's no hassle and enjoyable and we had a pleasant hour singing and playing. And the reaction you often get is "I wish I had the confidence to do that..." and the answer is that you have if you choose to. It's only been in about the last year that I feel confident enough to do it but having got over that hump it becomes easier

what a great bit of advice this had dogged me for years but now its lots better

[Lazz]

Every bit of the above seems like real good advice to me, Ro.

But I would like to raise a small quibble with this one bit from Typo:

a teacher isn't necessary.

He's right, of course: nobody ever needs a teacher for anything - especially if most of the fun lies in finding your own way.

However - depending on how intent you are and how quickly you want to reach your goal - having a teacher can save you a huge amount of wasted time and effort.

The rght taacher is important - someone who understands what you want and can sympathetically help you get there.

No idea how tough or easy it might be to find someone who fits the bill for you but I sure wouldn't rule it out of hand.

All I know is that I wish I had personally got on the case and found one or two a lot earlier in my alleged career.

I got help and pointers later on ok but could have benefitted well before, if only I hadn't been so chicken-shit.

[thelevellers]

I think I would like to find the right teacher... But I don't know where to start :S I don't even really know what the right teacher would be, so to speak... :S

This advice looks good though Thanks people! I'm trying to build on confidence, but there's nowhere private enough (for me) to build it without others listening in at the mo :S (crap excuse I know, but there we are, that's me! )

Cheers, Rohan

[Lazz]

I think I would like to find the right teacher... But I don't know where to start :S I don't even really know what the right teacher would be, so to speak...

Help is at hand just along the street from you on the Newport Road.

The main Teachers' Section of the lovely Musicians' Union is actually run by Diane Baxter out of the London office on the Clapham Road, but I bet if you spoke to someone friendly like Paul Westwell at your local Cardiff Branch (029 2045 6585) he would be able to furnish you with a list of suitable contenders.

That's a good place to start.

Armed with your brief spec of requirements and desires....

1. wanna be able to at least keep in tune for singing along with my guitar

2. would just love to be able to sing in a group of people with out being crap, out of the

.... you then have conversations with each of his recommendations until you find the one you feel is truly understanding and sympatico.

It may only take one or two lessons for guidance to put you on a useful road.

Then the rest is up to you.

[FinnArild]

Listen to Lazz - he's a really good old geezer, which means he has collected quite a bit of wisdom through the years.

Learning to sing isn't quite like learning an instrument. If you play the guitar too rough and break a string, you just replace it. You can do no such thing with your vocal cords (ok - you can fix some with surgery, but you really don't wanna go there).

This means two things:

- You need to learn how to use your voice so you don't break it. It is not hard, and it involves number two:

- You need to rehearse regularly and adequately (meaning not too much).

[thelevellers]

It's that key 'practice' bit at the end that's my main stumbling block... :s But I'll look into the Musicians Union, sounds like it should be helpful Though I might do that with next (academic) year in mind... Thanks for the tip off Lazz!

Rohan