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Another Side to My Experience


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The following entry was prompted due to a conversation I had yesterday, with readers and friends of mine who are not members of Songstuff. Some of these people are not musicians, so keep that in mind.

 

As many of you already know, I consider myself as being a loyal member of this place. And while Songstuff DOES have its ups and downs, there is no other place id rather be. But there are also downsides to this choice. I am known for being relatively candid, so I thought it could be interesting to share with you guys how this conversation went down. Some of the questions and answers will be simplified for the sake of providing more convenient context.

 

So lets get right to it! we`ll start with the easiest question to serve as premise.

 

Question:

"VX, You have been a member of Songstuff since 2019. However. You have only started to actively participate and engage community members in the last few months. Is there any particular reason for that? or were you just busy?"

 

Answer:

I`m always busy. I have two jobs and many other responsibilities. Music is not the only production which I am involved in. Though in regards to my "sudden" surge of activity, there are a few misconceptions about that. The biggest one being, the fact that the majority of my activity has always been "in the shadows". So to that end, its not that I "disappeared" and "re-appeared". But rather, it was simply a matter of choice and wanting to try new things. All my old friends left the forum due to lack of activity and interests on their part. So it was either me starting to engage with new people, or continuing to stare into the abyss of the critique section 😅

 

Question:

"Are you suggesting that providing input in the critique section is a waste of time?"

 

Answer:

In many cases, absolutely. I mean, sure, some members do learn as they go, and take initiative and improve through engaging in conversation and honing their craft. I`m NOT saying that ALL cases are the same, and we DO in fact have many knowledgeable and helpful members that do contribute and can assist people on all kinds of production aspects. People like @john @Mahesh @Peggy @Steve Mueske @Popthree @Old Technology @Mind of Thorus @GregB just to name a few! those guys ARE trying to help!

 

* Hi Old Tech! I know that this is random, but nice too meet you! you seem cool, which is why I mentioned you 👍 *

 

But... without rattling the boat further, when it comes to many of our posters, I feel like many of them are simply posting songs to receive compliments or to get more "clicks". Which in my opinion is unfortunate because the whole point of critique is to engage in a meaningful discussion for the sake of betterment. And, sadly, only a handful of members here ever gave me the impression that they are interested in that. Perhaps you guys (my readers) have had better experiences than I have. But this Blog is all about MY perspective, so.. 😅 and like I told my boy @Steve Mueske, I simply don`t see much point in trying to help every single person. In other words: I think that only those that show that they are interested in critique, should get critiqued. Otherwise, they are simply wasting people`s time. This is just my opinion mind you!

 

Question:

"Do you think that most of the musicians in Songstuff have a chance to succeed? Do you think this place has objectively good music?"

 

Answer:

Those are inappropriate questions! Normally I wouldn't answer something like that. However. Its been a while since I made some provocative content that might trigger people 🧐 I fear that my regular readers might fear that I have "gone soft"! so I will answer those questions as candidly as I possibly can! I would also like to give credit to @James Anderson for inspiring me to address this topic through in some form. Though do I look forward to when you decide to write about similar subjects! i`ll be tuning in!

 

The short answer would be: This place does have a lot of good musicians that make good music - there is no shortage of talent. But I think that - in most cases - its never going to go beyond the point they are already in. Its like, lets hypothesize for a sec that all musicians in here would achieve great commercial success. We talking, like, RIGHT NOW, at this moment. Lets say we have all magically become celebrities, overnight - You woke up in the morning and had to deal with millions of followers (both fans and haters), and you had to both answer and account for - all the responsibilities that comes with that. This is your new life. JUST. LIKE. THAT. Would YOU be ready for that? RIGHT NOW? just something to think about! 😵

 

My point being - while its true that each person is different - it is logical to assume that if a person would souly rely on the experience they have gained through an online forum (and nothing else) - than they would likely be overwhelmed. I have mentioned these specific circumstances ("breaking through" via online promotion on a forum, without having prior experience in the entertainment industry) in an attempt to explain why I think that most people that come here - are probably satisfied with where they are at currently.

 

In other words: I think that most people that come to Songstuff are not interested in being famous (myself included!). This is a cousy place, a comfortable and controlled environment. So to that end, the real question becomes: Its not about who could succeed - But rather - Who should? and i`m afraid that is a question I am unable to answer. I mean, sure, I could sit here and tell you whose music I think has great potential, and whose music I think is never going to go anywhere. If you don`t believe that, go ahead: TRY ME! 👍 But anything I say, would just be my opinion. And I could be "objectively wrong".

 

Question:

"So would you tell me, or any of your other readers, if you think that their music sucks?"

 

Answer:

I don`t think that would serve a meaningful purpose. Though.. I suppose if someone REALLY wanted me to do something like that, than id start by making a poll that asks: "So who wants me to take a shit on their music!" . That way nobody could blame me if their feelings get hurt 😅👍 Seriously though, id rather not do something like that!

 

Question:

"Do you think that people on Songstuff like you?"

 

Answer:

I think some of them do. The majority are probably either mildly curious or completely indifferent. Though I do know that some of the people in the forum dislike me. Which is cool, you know? i`m very quirky and that`s not everyone's cup of tea. I can also talk for day`s, which is also off putting for some people.

 

Question:

"Would you be willing to collaborate with someone from Songstuff?"

 

Answer:

Ironically, I come here to escape my responsibilities as a musician and producer 👍 meaning, that Songstuff is my chillout place. Though if we talking making music just for fun, because we can, with no written agreements and no bullshit business attachments? than yeah absolutely! if anyone wants to do something with me - contact me in private and we`ll see what we can do!

 

Though unfortunately, as always, I need to cut my writing short because something came up. I wanted to continue to write, but I can`t right now :( though before I leave, I will address the questions I myself have raised in my previous post! now you`ll see what I meant when I said that my replies are boring, @john!

 

BONUS QUESTIONS:

 

* Do you feel like people care about the music you share on Songstuff? *

 

Not really, no 🤣 I mean, sure some of them might have enjoyed it. But I can`t imagine most people listening to my stuff for fun. Most people here are into different things that I am. I mostly make Metal/Classic/Electronic hybrids - how do YOU think that crosses over in a general music forum? I also work on Soundtracks, which is kinda like glorified elevator music on steroids. Even I don`t listen to that shit, more than I have too! 👍

 

* Have you made any real fans here? *

 

I don`t think I did. Though I HAVE made a few stalkers, if that counts!

 

* Have you made any real friends here? *

 

I hope so!

 

That`s all the time I have for now. Peace! Let me know what you think in the comment section below! :)

 

Oh wait. Before I forget. Someone on SC "dared" me to Tag someone random as "proof" that we have active members. No problem. Here. This is  @Jim622. Sorry for tagging you, dude. You probably have NOOOOO idea why you have been tagged, especially at the bottom line of the entry, where you`d have to go through all of... THIS, just to make sense of things. I`m sorry though I do hope you enjoy the read. My Blog is a bit of a roller coaster at times. If you like this sorta content, your welcome to share your insights. I remember you!

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thanks  for  mention  my   name   voice x      there  are  the  elephant  in   the  room   questions   ive  been  writing  songs  since   I   was   16   ,   44  years   later   I  NOW   FEEL   like  a  prize   fighter   every  song   I compose   in    my  head   I    KNOW   how  it  will  sound   before   I  WORK  IT  OUT  ON  MY   GUITAR    . if   some  one   heard  my   music  say   10   years   after   I  STARTED   composing   they   might  say  it  sucks    and   might  be  write   .with  time  every   bodys  songwriting    will   get   better  and   better  .   at   the  end  of  the   day   it  boils  down  to  having  a  hit song a  lot  of  things   have  to  come   together   .  how  good  the  song   is  would   be  the    first   production  can  be   important   even   having  the   best  singer  in   the  world   singing  a  second  rate   song   wont  compete  to  a  average  singer  singing  a  great  song  .with   songstuff   to  make  its   mark  on  the  music  industry   it  has   to  become   a   hit  making   factory    it  has  to  evolve    the  airways    is  the  stairways    to  all  songwriters achieving there  goals

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21 hours ago, Popthree said:

I love your posts 

 

I can't formulate complete thoughts right now. Weird day. But I will get around to replying to your questions. I hope to see a few others reply as well.

 

Do you celebrate the holiday? If so, happy holidays to you!

 

Always a pleasure to have you here! your one of the people that keep me going in this place. Also don`t worry about replying. Take as much time as you need, and you don`t have to answer everything. In fact, i`ll copy-paste some of the interesting questions into this reply, so you won`t have to jump from post to post. And your absolutely right - I think it would be very interesting to see more replies. These ARE questions that, in a way, "should" be on people`s minds in an online forum, being as it concerns them.

 

1) Do you feel like people care about the music you share on Songstuff?

2) Have you made any real fans here?

3) Have you made any real friends here?

4)Would you be willing to collaborate with someone from Songstuff?

 

Also - Happy holidays! :) as for your questions, well... work keeps me extremely busy, and the majority of my family has passed away. My real friends and I also have conflicting working schedules. So me and my wife occasionally celebrate holidays, but for the most part we just make fancier food to mark the occasion, and that`s about it. God i`m old 😅

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17 hours ago, GregB said:

I'll have what HE's having! :) 

 

The G-Man himself! :o you want it? you got it! No problem! i`m glad to see that you have been "resurrected"! 😅 I hope that all is well with you!

 

1) Do you feel like people care about the music you share on Songstuff?

2) Have you made any real fans here?

3) Have you made any real friends here?

4)Would you be willing to collaborate with someone from Songstuff?

 

Naturally, you are welcome to answer any other questions which might interest you! I`m always glad to see your insights, and I think that these are things that most people don`t talk about, or talk about them in private.

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11 hours ago, James Anderson said:

thanks  for  mention  my   name   voice x      there  are  the  elephant  in   the  room   questions   ive  been  writing  songs  since   I   was   16   ,   44  years   later   I  NOW   FEEL   like  a  prize   fighter   every  song   I compose   in    my  head   I    KNOW   how  it  will  sound   before   I  WORK  IT  OUT  ON  MY   GUITAR    . if   some  one   heard  my   music  say   10   years   after   I  STARTED   composing   they   might  say  it  sucks    and   might  be  write   .with  time  every   bodys  songwriting    will   get   better  and   better  .   at   the  end  of  the   day   it  boils  down  to  having  a  hit song a  lot  of  things   have  to  come   together   .  how  good  the  song   is  would   be  the    first   production  can  be   important   even   having  the   best  singer  in   the  world   singing  a  second  rate   song   wont  compete  to  a  average  singer  singing  a  great  song  .with   songstuff   to  make  its   mark  on  the  music  industry   it  has   to  become   a   hit  making   factory    it  has  to  evolve    the  airways    is  the  stairways    to  all  songwriters achieving there  goals

 

It was a pleasure to read your insights,and I always give credit where it is due! Plus, I really like the elephant analogy, as it is very appropriate, and can be interpreted in more than one way. Traditionally, when people say that line, they are referring to something big that nobody is willing to talk about. However, that line could take on other aspects (in this specific context). You see, elephants are also known for more than just their size. Mainly, they are known for having very good memories and for traveling their entire life, until thy meet their demise. So should you "switch" that idea and put in into a context that "reflects" a musician`s career, the idea is not dissimilar on several fronts.

 

I never really heard any of your songs. Neither past or present. Unfortunately. So I am unable to provide an opinion on that, nor could I properly asses and compare your levels of progress. Though I think it would be interesting to hear your music, if possible! obviously that part is entirely upto you 👍

 

I believe you are correct in what you said in regards to Songstuff needing to take things to the next level. This is something that I feel like people are hoping for. Or, at least very least, I think it would be cool if we got more members. This thread has been composed through me answering questions, not offering solutions. Making a hit song is a good start, indeed. Though a one trick pony could also fade into obscurity, just as quickly as they have risen. It is better to engineer sustainability.

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1 hour ago, James Anderson said:

ps   just  for  the  fun  of  it   I  DONT  THINK   I'LL  JUST  BE  A  ONE   HIT  WONDER

 

Oh I was talking in general, not about anyone specific.

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On 12/26/2021 at 10:51 AM, VoiceEx said:

1) Do you feel like people care about the music you share on Songstuff?

2) Have you made any real fans here?

3) Have you made any real friends here?

4)Would you be willing to collaborate with someone from Songstuff?

1) Do you feel like people care about the music you share on Songstuff?

No.

It has served a different purpose ... organising thoughts and writing for its own sake ... BUT if just one person listens/likes the music then I'll have doubled my audience! 

I also have to admit that I've always enjoyed pontificating, even regarding music where I have no credentials.

 

2) Have you made any real fans here?

No.

I'm not into fans. Sounds like hard work and responsibility!

 

3) Have you made any real friends here?

No.

I can have long written jovial conversations with anyone if they are interesting, pleasant, and can SPELL, but a 'friend' is a tag I reserve for only a handful of people who have proved worthy and I know IRL.

 

4)Would you be willing to collaborate with someone from Songstuff?

Yes.

Always willing to give it a crack, but it has only ever worked, for both enjoyment and outcome, twice in my life ... and each led to an album.

 

The oddity about Songstuff is that 100 people can "view" a post but no-one comments.  Also that the site allows 'guests' ... I just don't see the point - people would join if that was the only option.

 

Cheers,

Greg

Edited by GregB
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Thanks for the shout out. I think you bring up interesting points. Especially about song stuff being a comfy place.

 

To me it represents one of the few bastions of how the old internet used to be. I was a member of a few forums and I think it's such a valuable format for artists of any type. The slower speed of it versus something like Discord is really nice. With forums you usually need to be an active member to start having activity come back your way. A forum forces you to care, and forums are dying out which is a sad thing.

 

I will take having a few regulars listen to my music over a massive fanbase any day because that is exhausting.

 

Do I care about your music? Yes I do. After this post I will care about your music even more because even something silly like being mentioned in a comment makes me feel good and like most people I like to feel good. Small communities are a rarity in the modern world but it's something we long for because it's in our history.

 

When it comes to posters who don't care about anything other than posting a link to their work and leaving. I welcome them too. We never know which new poster is going to decide to stick around and become a regular just like we never know when a regular is going to disappear from the forum for a long time or even forever. I left song stuff for more than a year. I loved how tight the community was, but I lost my passion for music for a while. But I'm back now and I remembered how welcoming everyone here was and I am pleased to report people are just as kind now as they were in mid 2019 when I was last here.

 

I don't know what the point is to my post really but this is the rant section.

 

Thanks for making people like myself feel involved.

Edited by Old Technology
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“Oh wait. Before I forget. Someone on SC "dared" me to Tag someone random as "proof" that we have active members. No problem. Here. This is  @Jim622. Sorry for tagging you, dude. You probably have NOOOOO idea why you have been tagged, especially at the bottom line of the entry, where you`d have to go through all of... THIS, just to make sense of things. I`m sorry though I do hope you enjoy the read. My Blog is a bit of a roller coaster at times. If you like this sorta content, your welcome to share your insights. I remember you!”

 

Dared? Now that’s just weird. There are some strange people out there.

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3 hours ago, john said:

Dared? Now that’s just weird. There are some strange people out there.

 

Oh this is far from being the oddest thing ive been asked to do 😅 though it was a harmless request so I didn't mind playing along. Its always interesting to observe how certain elements seem from the outside, in. Besides. It provided me with an opportunity to talk with Jim, which seems like a cool fellow! a few other conversations were promoted through this as well :)

 

This is how I spend most of my time here - getting to know people or helping people. Which is great because I enjoy doing that and I always have something to do. I get to talk about music, mixing, promotion, and pretty much anything and everything. I also get to hear demos and sketches that people don`t share publicly. Which is a HUGE honor for me.! Not to mention that having my ears to the ground also allows me to hear the latest gossip! which is something I love! if there is one thing I learned from being here, is that keeping myself busy is the way to go. Otherwise I would go nuts because i`m very energetic.

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16 hours ago, GregB said:

The oddity about Songstuff is that 100 people can "view" a post but no-one comments.  Also that the site allows 'guests' ... I just don't see the point - people would join if that was the only option.

 

Cheers,

Greg

 

That`s actually a very interesting point. This is something that perhaps @john or @Mahesh would address better than me.

 

Though if you want my two cents, I think that allowing 'guests' serves as a means of providing an opportunity for potential users to check this place out, before deciding if they want to register or not. I can understand something like that. I mean its not the same as, lets say, allowing these 'guests' to post comments without them having to become members. Something like that could go south real quick, and I imagine we would need more staff.

 

Besides. There is also the internal aspect to keep in mind. Most musicians only care about promoting themselves, and not much else. Which is something I can understand. However, that may also come at a price (community wise). If people don`t go around the block and share their insights with others, than why would anybody take interest in them? I think that may be one of the reasons why some people get more attention than others.

Edited by VoiceEx
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23 hours ago, Popthree said:

3) Have you made any real friends here?

 

yes, to some degree at least. i'd say i have made a worthwhile, meaningful connection here.

 

You must be referring too miss Scarlett Johansson, whose breasts may have been compelled to gravitate naturally towards the palms of your hands! ;)

 

23 hours ago, Popthree said:

4)Would you be willing to collaborate with someone from Songstuff?

i probably would yes, though i have little experience at such things.  i'm probably not very easy to work with.  not because i'm particularly demanding or combative, just becaue i'm not very professional when it comes to my music and art.  i'd probably be very frustrating to work with.

 

Actually I think you would be really fun to work with! professional musicians can be very demanding, sometimes over things you might not expect. For example. A few years ago I worked with a relatively known band in my country, and one of those band members always brought his girlfriend to the recording session. That on its own would be fine, if it were not for her unusual demands (which in turn, became "his" demands"). And if said demands weren't "met", she would throw a tantrum and mess up the entire recording session. You`ll never guess what one of those demands were.

 

Grapes. f*cking grapes! 😅 if there was not a bowl of grapes ready for her in "advance", not to mention, specific water bottles and all sorts of dumb shit, she would flip the f*ck out. Why? I don`t know why. I`m not a therapist 😅 This woman was also in her late forties, mind you. So... in case you were wondering, no, her questionable sanity was not the only thing about to hit the floor! God i`m awful 🤣 the saddest part is that this is no where near being the worse story I have.

 

"Professionalism" is a VERY broad definition. You could have all the written agreements in the world, and that still won`t "save" you from ending up working with nut jobs. Anything can happen. Literally. I have seen professional musicians drop everything they were doing, in the middle of a sound check, in order to get buck naked and snort lines of cocaine. We talking grown ass hairy men with shiny bald spots that can reflect the moon. It was like watching badgers that have lamps for heads. That`s something you cannot un-see!

 

So... yeah these days when I work with a professional i`m not worried about plagiarism. I`m worried I might have to call the cops! lol

Edited by VoiceEx
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20 hours ago, GregB said:

The oddity about Songstuff is that 100 people can "view" a post but no-one comments.  Also that the site allows 'guests' ... I just don't see the point - people would join if that was the only option.

 

Cheers,

Greg


It exists for a number of reasons… but they are not set in stone. That said, to move away from such publicly visible forums has a hidden cost, and it can be quite high.

 

This is an old forum. It’s been around more than 2 decades. I should write up a post about the history of this place some time. Anyway, back in the beginning there was only public forums. Public pages are crawled by search engines. Every link to another page (on this site or off) is considered to be a vote for that page. The same is true for links on other sites to our pages. Search engines like Google assess how important every page on the internet is (that Google can see) and it weights how important these votes are. It then uses this to help determine the authority of that page on it’s primary topics. If a link uses those topic key words in the text linking to the other site, Google also upvotes the importance of the page to that topic…. Amongst other things.

 

Currently links also vote for your pages, for example artist profiles on SoundCloud, Reverbnation etc. making searches more likely to pop up your accounts when someone searches.

 

Anyway, Google then ends up with a mass of weighted, cross-linked content. It then uses this data to provide search results when someone types in a search term.

 

All these public pages on our forums act as both nets to catch people interested in specific topics, and votes for the sites linked to. Each forum page often links to other content on Songstuff…. Helping to determine the authority of each page being linked to… which Google uses when determining whether a search result is on page 1 position 1 or page 100 position 20. That has a huge effect on the amount of traffic Google sends to your website.

 

So if we make a load of pages that are public suddenly private, the forum, all it’s topics and replies are suddenly removed from search popularity calculations, causing our site to suddenly drop down search results meaning even less traffic.

 

That said, there a few things we can do to mitigate the issue:

  • We can move gradually
  • We can stop new posts in areas, and start new boards… but that makes very very messy navigation.
  • We can try to reduce the impact by compensating, creating loads of links on other sites that point to Songstuff

Indeed, sharing our articles and blogs and forum posts is a really, really good way to help bring in more people to our community… (more on that later in a topic of my own.)

 

There are certainly a number of advantages to public vs private. Generally private communities are paid-for communities. There are loads of advantages to that too (especially for me as currently I pay for it so no one else has to. Trouble is, the limited nature of my pocket has acted as a choke on community growth several times in the past.

 

I could drone on, but don’t want to hijack the blog post. Things are never as straightforward or as binary a choice as we might think.

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22 hours ago, GregB said:

The oddity about Songstuff is that 100 people can "view" a post but no-one comments.

Apologies - brevity can be a curse sometimes.  My extended thought was that if I click on something that catches MY interest, most times I have a "view" and feel a compunction to express it to the writer.  I've always assumed that forums are for the 2-way sharing of views (unless the comments are likely to cause hurt although these days possible 'offense' is tough thing to judge).


So 100 views without a typed or icon'd 'response' can be taken to mean -

  • the 'readers' are generally disinterested, jumping around aimlessly
  • they're looking for something specific and can't find satisfaction
  • no-one cares about what you've expressed
  • people totally DISagree with what you've said but are too polite to say so (yeah, right!)

It's a shame because, along with most of the 'regulars' here, I take time to formulate long-form pieces about different aspects of the challenges of creating music.

 

But, when all is said and done, it's really a non-issue in the great scheme of things and in a world that is rapidly going down the toilet.  I became more active on this site over the last 6 months because exposing my soul in an open forum seems to be quite therapeutic.  Perhaps linked to being raised in rabid Catholic environment at home and school? :) 

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1 hour ago, john said:

I could drone on, but don’t want to hijack the blog post

 

Don`t worry about it! as far as i`m concerned, people are more than welcome to talk to each other in here! You posted proper information over a topic that has been on people`s minds. Plus. The more people talk, the more it seems like my blog is more lively than it actually is. So its a win win 😅

Edited by VoiceEx
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18 hours ago, Old Technology said:

Thanks for the shout out. I think you bring up interesting points. Especially about song stuff being a comfy place.

 

I`m glad that you have enjoyed the read. Its a pleasure to meet you! :)

 

18 hours ago, Old Technology said:

To me it represents one of the few bastions of how the old internet used to be. I was a member of a few forums and I think it's such a valuable format for artists of any type. The slower speed of it versus something like Discord is really nice. With forums you usually need to be an active member to start having activity come back your way. A forum forces you to care, and forums are dying out which is a sad thing.

 

The old internet. Dial up modems. mIRC. LAN. Active forums. Adapting through the environment. And best of all - no Facebook. Man, I miss those days! :(engaging with people used to feel like a livid experience, people sought out meaningful conversations, and you knew that the person on the other side of the screen went through the same milestones in order to reach you. There was a sense of "unity", if that makes any sense. Not to mention that people were no where near being as aggressive (or overly sensitive) as they are today.

 

18 hours ago, Old Technology said:

I will take having a few regulars listen to my music over a massive fanbase any day because that is exhausting.

 

In this place, i`ll take having a good conversation and making a friend, over any kind of promotion.

 

18 hours ago, Old Technology said:

Do I care about your music? Yes I do. After this post I will care about your music even more because even something silly like being mentioned in a comment makes me feel good and like most people I like to feel good. Small communities are a rarity in the modern world but it's something we long for because it's in our history.

 

Very few people here have ever heard my sketches, as that is something I usually share in private. I would say, that it would be difficult for anyone to express any kind of feeling, over something they may or may not have been exposed too (as far as I know!) 😅

 

Though I get what your saying and I appreciate it! I`m also very happy that I was able to make you feel good! That is exactly why I have dedicated my personal Blog to share my thoughts and involve other people.

 

Ifeel like many of the artists that join Songstuff have a tendency to focus their efforts "inwards", prioritizing themselves as if they are the center of the universe. I can understand why people do that. But personally? its not my cup of tea. I`m not here for promotion, and id much rather use my time here to get to know people and make friends, and help whenever I can, in a way that feels meaningful to me. That is one of the main reasons why I don`t bother with the critique section. I don`t know how this place used to be in the past, but these day`s I consider that area of the forum as being largely ineffective.

 

18 hours ago, Old Technology said:

When it comes to posters who don't care about anything other than posting a link to their work and leaving. I welcome them too. We never know which new poster is going to decide to stick around and become a regular just like we never know when a regular is going to disappear from the forum for a long time or even forever. I left song stuff for more than a year. I loved how tight the community was, but I lost my passion for music for a while. But I'm back now and I remembered how welcoming everyone here was and I am pleased to report people are just as kind now as they were in mid 2019 when I was last here.

 

I tend to interact and approach members through observation. While its true that its impossible to say whose going to stick around (or whose going to leave), there are those who demonstrate more willingness than others. For me, the people who are only here to post links are the same as the people that only post "one-liners". I have no problem supporting them in some capacity or even buying their products. But as far as meaningful engagements go... I... kinda prefer people that, well... you know.. talk 😅 otherwise they are no different from a jukebox. Had I only wanted to browse for music, this place would not be my first choice.

 

18 hours ago, Old Technology said:

I don't know what the point is to my post really but this is the rant section.

 

Thanks for making people like myself feel involved.

 

I think that perhaps your point is that you may have felt like I was addressing subjects which were already on your mind. Like some of the others in here. I tagged you for a reason. And i`m happy I did so because we finally got a chance to interact! I have seen you around and I think that your a cool guy, so I wanted to share this with you and get a chance to hear your insights.

Edited by VoiceEx
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VX - I was surprised to see myself mentioned as a active member in your blog. Particularly since I try, but I don’t consider myself very active. I have just recently posted lyrics for a song for the first time in years.  Dry spell ya know. I make an effort to critique lyrics and music though I don’t consider myself very qualified to do it. I enjoy listening to or reading the other members ideas, most of the time it is humbling and inspiring at the same time.

   As to the blog, I am a member who has no delusions of grandeur. I write songs because I have to, for me. I have not been prolific of late, but if I gave it up, it would create a large void in my life. If one one of my song gets noticed, be it by a another member here critiquing to help me to make it better or just letting me know I may be on to something worth keeping, that’s good enough. I do not wish to be famous. If a song would someday be hit...he’ll yeah, I’d take it, but not necessary. Just your mention of me was a nice validation.Thank you

   About this site. I remember 30, 40 or more members being online at once. When I hit my block, I kind of moved away from the site as a contributor, I lurked, but didn’t post. I didn’t feel worthy. When it came apparent the site was declining, I realized I was part of the problem, so I started contributing with critiques even though I wasn’t writing. This site is to important to see go away. From the beginning it has been an important part of my musical life.

 

Jim

 

ps - I am never this long winded

Edited by Jim622
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15 hours ago, Jim622 said:

VX - I was surprised to see myself mentioned as a active member in your blog. Particularly since I try, but I don’t consider myself very active. I have just recently posted lyrics for a song for the first time in years.  Dry spell ya know. I make an effort to critique lyrics and music though I don’t consider myself very qualified to do it. I enjoy listening to or reading the other members ideas, most of the time it is humbling and inspiring at the same time.

   As to the blog, I am a member who has no delusions of grandeur. I write songs because I have to, for me. I have not been prolific of late, but if I gave it up, it would create a large void in my life. If one one of my song gets noticed, be it by a another member here critiquing to help me to make it better or just letting me know I may be on to something worth keeping, that’s good enough. I do not wish to be famous. If a song would someday be hit...he’ll yeah, I’d take it, but not necessary. Just your mention of me was a nice validation.Thank you

   About this site. I remember 30, 40 or more members being online at once. When I hit my block, I kind of moved away from the site as a contributor, I lurked, but didn’t post. I didn’t feel worthy. When it came apparent the site was declining, I realized I was part of the problem, so I started contributing with critiques even though I wasn’t writing. This site is to important to see go away. From the beginning it has been an important part of my musical life.

 

Jim

 

ps - I am never this long winded

 

First off, thank you for commenting! every person counts, even if they do not perceive their words as being in that matter. My definition of activity and contribution may differ from most. And by that I mean, that I believe that putting an effort counts just as much as being attentive. I think that only a handful of members feel and act as you do.

 

There are no real "qualifications" for giving replies. That is something that anyone can do, and your insights are just as valuable as anyone else. Experience, prior knowledge, having a high production value, skills, talent (etc). These elements do add more things to the table. Sure. But at the end of the day even so called experts can make mistakes. If somebody tells you: "No Jim! what your doing is wrong! do this, do that!", that is far from being constructive.

 

I don`t know what this place used to be like in its glory days. I mean, sure, I pieced together some parts of the puzzle here and there. I do have a good general impression about how this place used to function. But as far as being a "worthy members", I don`t think there is such a thing. Everyone should be treated with respect, regardless of their music or level of production.

 

I don`t think your being long winded. I do however think that perhaps you are being too hard on yourself. I could sit here and name quite a few people whom have been here for a while, which have not contributed even half as much as you do. In fact, even I have stated that I intentionally avoid giving critique on the open forum, as I believe it is largely a waste of time in most cases. And if everyone did as I did, the forum would even be more dead than it is now.

 

Don`t sell yourself short! you shouldn't think in terms of "whose better, more qualified". Just be yourself. Hell. I think that if we had 10 more members like you, the forum would be in a much, MUCH better place.

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On 12/29/2021 at 2:02 AM, VoiceEx said:

 

I don`t think your being long winded. I do however think that perhaps you are being too hard on yourself. I could sit here and name quite a few people whom have been here for a while, which have not contributed even half as much as you do. In fact, even I have stated that I intentionally avoid giving critique on the open forum, as I believe it is largely a waste of time in most cases. And if everyone did as I did, the forum would even be more dead than it is now.

 

 

 

VoiceEx - I don't see why you think giving critiques in an open forum is a waste of time. I take it may you give critiques by PM? In a public forum it gives the opportunity for other members other than the OP to gain insight from the critique and contributes to a sort of study for all who care to be involved on that piece of music or lyrics. I feel the critiques are some of the more valuable tools on the site. Not that the rest of the site does not have much more to offer. 

Edited by Jim622
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4 hours ago, Jim622 said:

VoiceEx - I don't see why you think giving critiques in an open forum is a waste of time. I take it may you give critiques by PM? In a public forum it gives the opportunity for other members other than the OP to gain insight from the critique and contributes to a sort of study for all who care to be involved on that piece of music or lyrics. I feel the critiques are some of the more valuable tools on the site. Not that the rest of the site does not have much more to offer. 

 

You are correct in saying that I usually help people through PMs, and not in the open forum. I prefer to take the more personal approach and contact them directly. I do that because I think that the most effective way to approach critique is by engaging in a respectful and constructive conversation, which goes back and forth on both sides, getting into as much relevant detail as possible, for the sake of betterment.

 

My eye sight is no where near what it used to be, but how many of those have you seen going on in public? i`m not saying that all commenters are the same, but most people seem to opt for "one liners". Many of which are far from being constructive or helpful. People are quick in pointing out flaws, but without offering a solution. Don`t even get me started about the people that insist on critiquing in the Showcase area. That`s... not what that section is meant for.

 

That being said. You made an excellent point about how bystanders are able to benefit from information that's being presented, as well as them being able to benefit form the many, many great assets that the site already had. I agree with you on that 100%. Which is also why I have began developing a second Blog, which will be dedicated to documenting and discussing my own production, thus serving as a free educational asset complete with articles, tutorials, freebie software goodies, and much more. Which I hope musicians of all levels will be able to benefit from. Or at the very least, perhaps enjoy reading into.

 

Its not that I "don't want" to help people on the open forum. I do. But I feel like I can better contribute in a different way. Look. Your right. If I wanted I could go over the critique section right now, and address every single person in here. Literally. But if I did that, maybe only one or two people would listen. At best. Even less people would attempt to follow my input on the fly.

 

But... if I already had, lets say, a guide for mixing/mastering ready in advance in my Blog (in a site they are already a part of), I could simply refer them to a cataloged entry that discusses whatever areas I thought they needed help with. That way they will not feel pressured into giving a response, they could digest the information on their own timetable, and they will also be able to contact me if they had any questions.

 

Do you see why I still believe that giving an in depth critique in the open forum is largely a waste of time?

Edited by VoiceEx
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On 12/31/2021 at 2:42 PM, VoiceEx said:

 

Its not that I "don't want" to help people on the open forum. I do. But I feel like I can better contribute in a different way. Look. Your right. If I wanted I could go over the critique section right now, and address every single person in here. Literally. But if I did that, maybe only one or two people would listen. At best. Even less people would attempt to follow my input on the fly.

 

 you see why I still believe that giving an in depth critique in the open forum is largely a waste of time?

     I am one of those with the one line responses. Like I said before, I am not as qualified as others to give a very constructive review. I have read some of your post, which are more technical and useful. For instants your recent comments on Popthrees 'Castaway". As to my earlier point about others lurking and learning, I found your comments on pumping insightful and useful. I was not familiar with the term and your definition was very helpful. It kind of sounds like if you take the time to respond and your suggestions are not used, you feel you have been slighted and have wasted your time, but in reality it may be appreciated and considered by the OP, but for what ever reason has decide to go another way.  In addition, there may be many others lurking and learning and using your knowledge on their projects. So to your question, No I still don't feel open critiques are a waste.

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13 hours ago, Jim622 said:

 

     I am one of those with the one line responses. Like I said before, I am not as qualified as others to give a very constructive review. I have read some of your post, which are more technical and useful. For instants your recent comments on Popthrees 'Castaway". As to my earlier point about others lurking and learning, I found your comments on pumping insightful and useful. I was not familiar with the term and your definition was very helpful. It kind of sounds like if you take the time to respond and your suggestions are not used, you feel you have been slighted and have wasted your time, but in reality it may be appreciated and considered by the OP, but for what ever reason has decide to go another way.  In addition, there may be many others lurking and learning and using your knowledge on their projects. So to your question, No I still don't feel open critiques are a waste.

 

In regards to @Popthree song "Cast Away" in particular, I think you may have confused my comment with what @Steve Mueske said. You can check out this link for clarification. Though I do talk to these cool cats in private, and they both know that if they ever wanna talk-shop, my door is always open.

 

This is why I am working on a second Blog, which is meant for educational purposes (exclusively) - so that anybody, silent lurkers included, can chose what subjects interest them, and address me directly if they have any questions or if they need my help with something. Whether or not people decide to check it out and do something with the knowledge is entirely up to them.

 

Though if we talking about on personal level, your right. When I chose to help someone, I do in fact appreciate seeing signs of life from the other side. I enjoy active conversations. You could consider that as preference or quirk of mine.

 

Your not wrong in saying that anyone can benefit from some of the things that people say in the critique section. I simply think that its... too slow of a process. One with low probability of yielding productive results. And yes I`m aware that no two people are like. But if I would actively look for useful information and critique in this place, I would prefer to read up on the site assets and contact people of interest directly, instead of hoping for useful comments. Going directly to the source is always more effective than taking detours.

 

We do not have to agree with each other, respectfully. Though my opinion remains the same. I still think that the critique section is a waste of time. If a musician willing chooses to take the approach of following small breadcrumbs and snippets of information here and there, than... that`s on them.

Edited by VoiceEx
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