Kel

Hi Goldy, A couple of little things I noticed at first glance... The Pre Chorus is acutally a part of the verse, and need not be labled separately. In an earlier challenge this was necessary because the brief from John was to use a pre-chorus, and we needed to show him we had. ordinarily, the different length of the lines or the change in meter will indicate it's purpose (even more so if it's repeated from verse to verse.) I know this challenge is very much about the situation in Syria today, but next year it may well be redundant. Not many people can think up, write, compose, record and produce a song fast enough to capitalise on the currency of a situation. A notable exception was Bill & Boyd in their smash hit "Santa Never Made It Into Darwin" which was on the shelves before new years' day 1975 as a fund raiser for the victims of Cyclone Tracy that flattened (litteraly) Darwin during the night of Christmas Eve 1974. But I digress... The warning is about being too specific. Title I'm not sure if you intended it or not (probably not!) I was reminded of the Village People's You Can't Stop The Music. At first I thought "Brilliant!" but then I realised it wasn't meant to be sung to that tune. Reading through, I see how it relates well, and is used in the chorus, but I think loses out to "The Winner Takes It All". That of course, was a rather large hit (and break up song) for ABBA back in the day. I think I prefer the shorter, "and the winner takes all!" or for the title, "Winner Takes All". Concept I like the idea of seeing it all as a chess game, played between the money men and power brokers on one side, however the role of the Revolutionaries counter moves or strategies aren't really examined. To me it reads like you were trying to merge the situation with a limited knowledge of chess. I think it's how you have assigned chess pieces to some of the players with a sprinkling of game terms thrown in. I wouldn't suggest this sort of approach unless you know the game intimately (my apologies if you do) or unless you work out a "palette" to use as your toolbox so everything is clear as a bell to you. I don't think you've quite pulled it off. Story I like the references to those behind the scenes, real or imagined, Assad must have support somewhere, and we can only conclude it's big business propping him up due to promises of concessions. Why else would anyone support him? As mentioned in the concept discussion, I don't see anything here for the Revolutionaries to call their own. They aren't trying to rid the nation of a tyrant, they aren't gallantly defending the people Assad is stomping all over... There is no mention of whether or not they have their own agenda.... The transition from Assad's backroom to the streets on fire and families fleeing the scene is for me too abrupt. I see no point to the second verse. It's like gratuitous violence in a political thriller, (I'm sure it's not what you intended). I think you are trying too hard to bring the chess game to life. I think if this verse was about either what the revolutionaries are saying they are doing, or treated like the first verse and exploring what perhaps their real intentions are, the "story" would be better served. I like the idea of third verse showing the true situation for the disposessed. The phrases you have used are more tell and less show, in my opinion. Being third person or further beyond doesn't really allow the listener to feel what is going on. I'd be thinking something like... Tripping on the rubble in the clogged up streets Don't know who is shooting, just following feet in front of me! My daughter's tears are leaving dirty streaks down her face I feel we're all just pawns in somebody else's race for the tower... Something like this will personalise the ordeal the dispossed are going through. The Chorus I think the third and fourth lines are redundant; that statement doesn't add anything to the point you are making, in my opinion. Here is my thought for a more condensed chorus... It's not anything new! It's always been the same! Who ever owns the gold Makes the nations rise, Or the kingdoms fall! You can't stop the game of war, Where the winner takes all. Summing up... I'd leave direct references to chess alone... Give the guerillas the same treatment you dish out to Assad... Think less tell and more show... make it personal for the victims I hope this helps, and it's just my thoughts after all. Cheers, Kel

Hi Goldy, Thanks for having a look. The rhyme scheme is subtle, I'll grant you, and I'll call it ABCDEB as the last line rhymes with the second line, (the last word, "because," is just a leader into the chorus.) I took one look at the photo... there she is, one arm reaching back toward her son, the other forward toward her husband (assumptions there, but the men have a resemblance!) and all I could hear was her screaming, "Hands off!" so to speak. Regarding the title, "You Can't Have Them" as opposed to "Can't Have Them", I guess I'll see what the record company says! LOL I hope to have a bit of time to check yours out today. Stay tuned... Thanks, Kel

In all honesty mate, I preferred the earlier version. It was honest in it's simplicity and just needed a nudge not a wrecking ball in my opinion. As usual, while there is nothing that says "Thou shalt have the title in the chorus!!!" all the best songs do! (If the song has a chorus.) The line "They have a voice" was the obvious choice as it was, in my opinion. I thought that line could do with some "colour" to evoke emotion, not a major rewrite. It's your song though. Kel

Mate, This has developed into a great piece of writing. A couple of things... I think you'd be better to leave "Syrian" out of it, there is nothing else in the lyric that pinpoints it to Syria, and as a generic anti war song I think it is very good. The other nit is not having the title in the chorus. I'd keep your refrain at the end of each verse, but change your title. I'm not too fond of "They Have A Voice" which to me is your title, but I'd ask your to think of something more poignant, more able to evoke an emotion than that rather bland statement. I'm thinking "A voice in the dark"... or "A voice in pain...", "A cry in the dark..."... "A child cries in pain in the darkness," Probably not there yet, but something that can conjure an image... I imagine a voice in the rubble, or a child crying in pain in the darkness, something that hits the listener like a brick and also puts them somewhere they would rather not be. It might take some walking in circles, but I guess living in Kiwiland you'd be used to that! (dig!) Cheers, Kel

Kel Abbott Thanks John

Hi Les, Unlike Goldy, I really thought this is powerful stuff. I love the flippancy to decribe the abhorrent situation. I think the contrast between the flippancy of the description and the grotesqueness off the scenes being described is of extremely high calibre and ranks with Catch-22 as a satirical anti-war stance. What it hasn't really done is show anything from either Assad's or the Revolutionary's points of view. As an anti-war message though, I think it rocks! Kel

Wow John, NO MORE TIME OFF!!!!! This is a great picture! My first and strongest impression was this woman was telling the film crew... Can't Have Them [VERSE1] Look at all this mayhem Look at all this, all for nothing grief! Look at all this heartbreak, Look at this and tell me That there's something I can do... Just make it brief, because [CHORUS] I gotta hide my men away You can't have them anymore You're not gonna take my men away They are not for your bloody war No! No! No! No! You can't have them anymore. [VERSE2] Hear the cries of children Hear the sound of, children in their pain. Hear the boom of rockets fall, Hear the crash and tell me That there's something I can do... Just make it plain, because [CHORUS] I gotta hide my men away, You can't have them anymore. You're not gonna take my men away They are not for your bloody war No! No! No! No! You can't have them anymore. [bRIDGE] The country calls not the president! The country isn't his to call his own! The country isn't so-called freedon fighters When all they want is to leave me on my own... [CHORUS] I gotta hide my men away You can't have them anymore You're not gonna take my men away They are not for your bloody war No! No! No! No! You can't have them anymore.

I use Guitar Pro for notation, you can dl a trial I think. There are a few others, Google music notation for a heap of them. take your pick! Kel

Thanks ladies. We are an international community and I needed to make sure the term has the same meaning as it does down here. In the Songwriting course I am doing, we are learning how to "discover" titles. We aren't to go looking for them but to "discover" them when they pop up. In this case, "He's a keeper!" is what my girlfriend's friend is telling her about me. Thanks again ladies, Kel

Since you ask so nicely... Kel

What I would like to know, is what does the term, "He's a keeper!" mean to you? There is no right or wrong answer....Yay! There is no prize.... boo! This is just research I am conducting. Thanks. Kel

Isn't this what the Sex Pistols were saying in the mid to late 70's? Anyway... A democracy is easily the least efficient form of government. It would be wonderful if we could all have a benevolent dictator who will make all the "best" decisions for us without any red tape. Anyway, we all know what happens when power is put into the hands of one, or even a few men. Peace in our time! So we are stuck with democracy, the trouble is, no matter who we vote for, we get a politician! We had a woman down here in the 90s who ran a fish and chip store. She wasn't a politician, she didn't say things a politicain would say, and she asked questions the polititicans didn't want to answer. So what happened? They threw her in gaol! Somehow, somebody came up with "evidence" she used a postage stamp she shouldn't have somewhere and in she went. Problem solved. I was a member of a political party at that time, and the whole party machinery moved away from it's policies onto how to assasinate her political life. It's not what I joined the party for so I quit. In our recent election a young guy, out of work and a self confessed motoring enthusiast won a senate seat. He's not a politician. I can't wait to see what happens when he asks a question the pollies aren't ready for. I wish him luck. Keep thinking, it makes us all do the same. Anyone have some Aspirin? Kel

Hi all, Please note Challenge #17 has been posted, but I don't have access to the main Group forum. The link to #17 is http://forums.songstuff.com/topic/32936-challenge-17-barth-grooks-euro-tour/ This is a sanctioned event! Kel

As long as the lyrics comprise 3 verses (one country per verse) Barth is happy. Kel

yeah maybe John can move it over, only he has access to the proper place, I think. it is the real #17. Kel

Hi all, Kel here! I've been approached by none other than Barth Grooks and he is a keen supporter of Songstuff and has invited us to pen the lyrics for a song he'd like to use on his upcoming European tour. I ran the idea past John and he's given his thumbs act for me to act as the Developer/Publisher for this challenge. Don't tell anyone, but I think he's a little miffed Barth Grooks didn't contact him! As you know Barth usually writes songs about rodeos, road houses, wild horses or women he's left behind, but he doesn't know much about Europe. Anyhow, Barth was saying when he heard what a fabulous job everyone did for the Strolling Bones he contacted me... I don't know why he chose me, but I'll go with it... What he would like is a typical Barth Grooks song, but a different European country needs to focus in all three (3) verses. You may choose any three countries and for the record this includes United Kingdom as one country, and all the Scandinavian countries including Iceland. For the sake of the exercise regard Turkey, Russia and Bulgaria the easternmost countries of Europe, whether they are or not. He doesn't mind what form is used, either ABABAB or AABA or AABABCB. He's happy with them all. He's happy to write the tune but will listen to any ideas. The only other restriction is he doesn't want any capital cities mentioned, eg London, Paris, Berlin, Rome... you get the idea I'm sure. Well Challengers, are you up to crafting a tour hit for Barth Grooks? Get your guitars out and get writing! Cheers, Kel PS I will not be participatint, with my inside knowledge it would be cheating. However anyone wishing to clarify anything can ask away.

Sure. The hard part is finding someone who will pay you for them. Good luck. Kel

POLL AS AT 23 OCT 2013 (GMT+10) Long Leg Lover NSJ 100% 3 Drippin' Love NSJ 100% 1 Sticky When Rich NSJ 100% 3 69 JDHarris 100% 4 69 Now JDHarris 100% 3 Red Hot Mama Kel 100% 6 Drippin' Love Vagda 100% 4 Red Hot Mama Goldy 100% 5 Sticky When Rich Scorpionking 100% 1 Sticky When Rich Rudi 100% 3 Keep it Up All Night Skin59 100% 4

okay, you have ours, so we are sitting pretty. Thanks, Kel

John, I know it's only Tuesday (or Monday night for some) however I just want to clarify how the finished song should be "released". Do you want us to PM you or post into this Challenge or into the Song Critique Forum, Showcase or somewhere different. As you know our group has submitted our song to the October Song Contest, in for a penny, in for a pound! Can you just clarify for us please how we should be presenting our finished product? Thanks, Kel

Here Here! I too have a friend affected by the Blue Mountains fires, but lucky so far. Kudos to all the Emergency Workers and Volunteers! Kel